Any Advice?

[ktandbt]

Hi,

My name is Katie and I'm new . I'm like an old new Christian.

Here is my story:

I'm 23 years old and I was raised a Presbyterian. I later met my fiance at the age of 16 and he told me that he was a Pentecostal. He showed me his faith and it totally made sense to me so I decided to attend a Pentecostal church service and I felt so moved that I decided to attend for a while. I started getting a bad feeling when someone in the congregation put her hands on my shoulder while I was praying and told me to ACT like I was speaking another tongue but I wouldn't do it. I stopped going to that church after that. I later tried various other Pentecostal churches (all by myself) and I was saved (not because I spoke in tongues but because I felt Jesus so strongly in my heart and soul that I wanted to be.

I later started feeling like it was soooo hard to stay at the church so I stopped going. I felt it was so hard because I was the only one in my family/friends attending and because I just kept getting the feeling that there were some there that were lying. (I don't know if they really were but that was just my feeling inside).

Fast forward about 2 yrs later and I'm still getting this uneasy feeling about going to church and even about praying. I don't know if it's because I'm afraid or what. I'm scared and I want Jesus back in my life soo very bad. It's almost like I'm having some battle inside. I really need some advice.

Thank,
Katie

 

[banish'd]

Ktandbt,

Your roots are in the Presbyterian Church.

 

[ktandbt]

Yes they are but after studying the bible I realized I didn't agree with some of their teachings.

 

[RobertZ]

Yes they are but after studying the bible I realized I didn't agree with some of their teachings.

Hi, im a southern baptist. Just curious what it is about Presbyterian churches that you dont agree with? I dont know that much about them myself.

 

[seashale76]

So, do you believe that you don't have the Holy Spirit in you, as a Christian? I ask because I've yet to see a Pentecostal who didn't believe that the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. In other words, if you don't speak in tongues, you aren't saved. It is a false teaching. Do you agree with it? I was raised Pentecostal. It is what they all believe whether they are oneness or trinitarian.

I always had terrible feelings in Pentecostal churches too. So do a lot of people. You're not the only one. I can't tell you how many people I know who have felt the same way. My husband went to the church I grew up in with me once and he had such a bad feeling that he had to leave immediately. It's because these churches are into the occult and don't even realize it. The last time I spoke in tongues I literally couldn't pray after that for months, and the very first time I spoke in tongues I didn't have control over my own body for a few hours (I couldn't stop speaking in tongues).

GET OUT! It isn't of God.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Katie,

If the church you are currently attending is not inspiring you nor ministering to your needs, or if you have stopped attending, then perhaps you could research other denominations and/or let us know what you believe and we could suggest other possibilities for you to consider.

 

[Peripatetic]

Denominations do not need to define you. Try to expose yourself to different ones. A few ideas: Attend some different services. If you know some others, ask them what they like/dislike about their church. Also, reading blogs and listening to podcasts really helped me to see different perspectives. Remember that all Christians share the same God and the same basic core beliefs.

There's a reason why my flag is Christian... I'm a denominational mutt!

And for what it's worth, Pentecostal is not for everyone. I grew up in a Charismatic Catholic church which is very similar to Pentecostal. I was never able to speak in tongues either, but luckily I was not pressured to do so. My mom told me that the didn't have the gift either, but still made sounds to join in with the group. One thing I really do miss about those prayer meetings was the "raise the roof" singing... I have great memories of the music of that church.

 

[ktandbt]

So, do you believe that you don't have the Holy Spirit in you, as a Christian? I ask because I've yet to see a Pentecostal who didn't believe that the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. In other words, if you don't speak in tongues, you aren't saved. It is a false teaching. Do you agree with it? I was raised Pentecostal. It is what they all believe whether they are oneness or trinitarian.

I always had terrible feelings in Pentecostal churches too. So do a lot of people. You're not the only one. I can't tell you how many people I know who have felt the same way. My husband went to the church I grew up in with me once and he had such a bad feeling that he had to leave immediately. It's because these churches are into the occult and don't even realize it. The last time I spoke in tongues I literally couldn't pray after that for months, and the very first time I spoke in tongues I didn't have control over my own body for a few hours (I couldn't stop speaking in tongues).

GET OUT! It isn't of God.

I do believe that I received the Holy Spirit. I know that different individuals can receive different gifts.
Example:
1 Corinthians 12

1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but many.
15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
(KJV)

I have no idea really...I know some of the people were great and filled with the Holy Spirit I felt it and could tell.

 

[heymikey80]

Yes they are but after studying the bible I realized I didn't agree with some of their teachings.

Ultimately, you won't find a church that totally agrees with you over everything. But you're absolutely right not to track with a church that's dishonest, and dishonest in the face of the Spirit of God. But please, find another church that will nurture you. Don't go on denominational labels, either. Look for a church that preaches the Gospel, teaches you on the Spirit of God indwelling you, and can connect with you. I'd also say, be careful of cults, because a lone Christian is the quickest to drag into a cult. I always look for people who can laugh at themselves, too.

It's fine to have differences with your church, though. You mentioned disagreement with Presbyterians. And it depends on the kind of Presbyterian you're talking about. But yeah, there are difficult ideas in Presbyterianism that you do not agree with -- I believe many aren't represented very well, depending on the Presbyterian. But you could still have real issues -- and they may be real problems. Nobody thinks Presbyterianism has a lock-hold on the truth -- least of all Presbyterians, as our first principle is Total Inability -- "We are all wrong."

Specific Presby churches -- well, that's another story. We're all wrong; so Presby churches will also run the range of good and not so good gatherings for your own faith. But different churches and denominations in Presbyterianism are often very different. I'm part of the EPC ( Evangelical Presbyterian Church ). There are basic points that're essential. Our church services might (or might not) seem familiar to you -- we don't regulate church liturgies, and so we're a wide range of churches, even from church to church you'll find vast differences. But we see the church as constructed differently than "me and people like me" -- instead it's supposed to be a gathering of people who believe.

Now yeah, it's true that Presbyterian church leadership is selected through some doctrinal standards -- standards we think are well-represented in Scripture. On the other hand, many Presbyterians can answer as to how we understand these things Scripturally, too. But it keeps coming back to this: Christians belong with one another. That's what makes a church a church.

 

[seashale76]

Well, they don't believe you have the Holy Spirit unless you have spoken in tongues first. It's a false teaching and it IS officially part of the doctrine of every Pentecostal group I've ever heard about. If you ever choose to become a member they will make you sign that you agree with their doctrine. Also, please make sure that the group you are affiliating with at least believes in the Trinity. Some Pentecostal groups, such as the United Pentecostal Church rejects the Trinity.

 

[banish'd]

A debate about Pentecostals is not helping Katie. Lets face it, converting from Presbyterian to Pentecostal is almost as bad as converting from Baptist to Roman Catholic.

When ever there is a fiance is envolved in these conversions I have my doubts whether God moved that person out of their church.

Katie, I still recommend that you get back into the Presbyterian Church where your roots are. The Presbyterian Church is a highly respected Protestant church. If you don't agree with Presbyterian teaching, then most likely you are the one who should get right with God.

From what you say, the Presbyterian Church is your calling. Don't let your boyfriend lead you away from where God plunked you down.

 

[Peripatetic]

converting from Presbyterian to Pentecostal is almost as bad as converting from Baptist to Roman Catholic.

"bad"? My wife was raised Baptist, I was raised Catholic. We both attended a Presbyterian college. Since we've been married, we bring different aspects from our past and from other churches. When we had kids, we needed to decide how to raise them. In the end, we decided on Catholic, but we honestly don't find that much that is mis-aligned. Our church is very clear on salvation by grace through faith alone (not works) for example. This is also the official position of the RC church now too, though most don't realize that. I listen to almost exclusively Protestant podcast sermons, and bring elements of that to the religious education of my kids too.

When ever there is a fiance is envolved in these conversions I have my doubts whether God moved that person out of their church.

God does not move people between churches. God wants us to attend a Christian church. I honestly don't think He cares about which one nearly as much as we think He does. That said, I can give you one personal story about my own situation. Since I have been exposed to different churches, I've considered switching our family a few times but it never seemed "right'. Now I've gotten a possible clue as to why. My son has Autism, and has a very hard time understanding anything abstract (from Religion to History class in school). I spend most of my time teaching the Bible and its lessons, and my son has a hard time processing it. Recently, I decided to teach them about the parts of the Mass. My son immediately latched on to it, and became very interested. Now he gets the booklet out at church and follows along with every word. He even points out to me which "cycle" we're in. He has found a way to worship and connect with God in a way that I thought might not be possible. I am very thankful that God lead me and my family to do what is best for my son.

 

[Sketcher]

Ah. Yet another story reaffirming some of my problems with charismatic churches.

I encourage you to go to church. It doesn't have to be a Pentecostal one. It doesn't have to be a Presbyterian one. It just has to be a Bible-believing one. I attend a non-denominational church - which doesn't necessarily help you since none of them are the same, but a Bible-believing, non-charismatic church like mine would be a nice place for you to heal, IMO. Now, it's got to be loving, it shouldn't be cultish, it should have joy mixed with sensitivity, it shouldn't insist on a certain translation, to name a few. I've had some good experiences with Southern Baptist believers myself. The SB fellowships I was involved in fit that bill.

 

[ktandbt]

Thanks!

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to help me!

 

[TruththroughGod]

I'm sorry...but what does it mean to "speak in tongues?"

 

[Peripatetic]

I'm sorry...but what does it mean to "speak in tongues?"

I'm not an expert, but I'll try to answer. Some people have a gift where they make vocal sounds (often sounding like a chant) that are not in a known language to do one of two things: speak to God or speak for God. This is a common form of praise and worship for Pentecostals and Charismatics. Some people without the gift will still simulate (or "fake") tongues by making their own sounds. The biblical definition of Tongues implies that the words do not come from you, but directly from the Holy Spirit.

The Bible also cites Tongues as being possible to speak for God in a form of prophesy, but obviously you'd also need to have (or know someone that has) the gift of "interpretation of tongues" for it to be meaningful. My personal belief is that tongues are real for a select few, but many people simulate tongues to fit in with others. Some churches even pressure people to do it by saying that you aren't saved without them. That is a shame.

You can read a lot more about this (including some cautions from Paul) in 1 Corinthians 12 and especially 1 Corinthians 14.

 

[heron]

Denominations do not need to define you.

Hurrah, yes.

It's a false teaching and it IS officially part of the doctrine of every Pentecostal group I've ever heard about.

I ask because I've yet to see a Pentecostal who didn't believe that the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. In other words, if you don't speak in tongues, you aren't saved.

In my region, Pentecostals don't teach that -- as you say, it can depend on the subgroups. I have attended many Charismatic churches in my area, and about ten Pentecostal... have not heard that teaching except on forums complaining about it.

It's because these churches are into the occult and don't even realize it.

There is an element of truth to look at, but if we were to say that were completely true, then the apostles also had that to deal with. I say that with volatility, comes volatility. If you stay in a safe zone, you will be safer. If you enter into a supernatural realm, you have the whole supernatural conglomeration to deal with. You have to stay on your toes to sort out the angels of light from God's team.

I just kept getting the feeling that there were some there that were lying.

In every church, there will be people that make you squirm. Try to separate the isolated incidents from the whole group, in your mind.

As you know, anyone can walk into a church, and almost anyone can become a member. That doesn't mean every member believes the same thing, or represents what the church is about.

But each person together forms a whole, living and active Body, so the collective group becomes the flavor and character of that fellowship.

I even wonder if that woman thought that you really wished you could speak in tongues, and was helping you walk through it in the same way she was able to start. Not really asking you to fake it, but just suggesting a one-foot-in-front-of-the-other approach.

She might have also been pushy or off track. It was good that you trusted your instincts and stood up for what you believed to be true. But remember that church people are not perfect people, and one bad apple.... we're all a little rotted.
(Ooh! My Presbyterian background is showing through! )

Speaking in tongues is in the Bible. The gifts of the Spirit are written about in the Bible. That is where our ideas come from on it, and how Charismatic churches got their foundations. It is not a comfortable or easy practice of Christianity, but it is certainly not all occult.

As you read the Old Testament, you will also find evidence of some unstructured phenomena that would not fit well into a liturgical church.

Nu 11:27

1Sa 10:5, 13
After that you shall come to the hill of God, where is the garrison of the Pelishtim: and it shall happen, when you are come there to the city, that you shall meet a band of prophets coming down from the high place with a psaltery, and a tambourine, and a pipe, and a harp, before them; and they will be prophesying:

and the Spirit of the LORD will come mightily on you, and you shall prophesy with them, and shall be turned into another man. Let it be, when these signs are come to you, that you do as occasion shall serve you; for God is with you.


1Sa 19:20, 23

1Ki 22:12

2Ch 18:9


...Then also ...

Jer 14:14
The LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying falsehood in My name. I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them; they are prophesying to you a false vision, divination, futility and the deception of their own minds.


Being more in tune with supernatural phenomena or spiritual gifts does not necessarily make one closer to God. But God has a long history of working in these unusual ways.

Keep digging through the Bible, and finding what is the heart of God for you.

 

[Hog Red]

i'm Bapticostal and here is what i think. in the baptist church there are plenty of folks with the gift of tongues, however all of the interpreters go to A/G churches so they have to keep quiet. (just a theory)

just make sure the church you go to preaches and teaches the Word, do some checking online and find out what that denomination actually believes. there are plenty of church denominations to stay away from (not going to mention any names), just dont let that keep you from a personal relationship with the Lord.

 

[Test All Things2]

ktandbt,

Hello, my advice is to find a church that teaches sound (and simple) bible doctrine. Finding a church that DOES that is much harder than it sounds these days. Non-denominational churches are a better place to start, and specifically I would recommend Calvary Chapel (non-denominational) as it is the church I have been involved with for 26 years. I have learned much and find very few faults with their approach.

I have been in a number of CC churches (there are more than 1000 worldwide), and always find the same quality of doctrine and worship in every one I have been to. The head pastor Chuck Smith is a true shepherd of God's church and has literally been the "good seed that produced a crop" if you will.

I recommend a web search for Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa California. Once at the website email them and ask for the location of a CC church near where you live. Go and attend there and see for yourself if they are not a church that teaches "sound doctrine." You will not find any crazy fads being taught in these churches. Their motto is "line by line" the whole bible.

And about the speaking in tongues:

I have been a christian almost 27 years and never spoke in tongues. I have seen the gift of tongues used properly in a Baptist church. I have attended services in a Pentecostal church and was scared out of my witts the whole service. I have had people try to make me speak in tongues when I was a babe in Christ, and all I could say was "Jesus is my Lord" in english language ONLY!

The guy who was trying to get me to speak in tongues accused me of having a demon because I could NOT SPEAK IN TONGUES. I had just been "born again" so he really missed the boat. I do not believe in the babbling form of "speaking in tongues" practiced in many churches. I do believe in the biblical form which is done in an orderly way as described in the bible, and is only for the edification of the body (church business).

Hope that helps you, and God bless you with the wisdom and guidance of the Holy Spirit in your search for a good church. Pray and ask God for HIS guidance. You will get his help. Trust God

 

[heron]

Fast forward about 2 yrs later and I'm still getting this uneasy feeling about going to church and even about praying. I don't know if it's because I'm afraid or what. I'm scared and I want Jesus back in my life soo very bad. It's almost like I'm having some battle inside. I really need some advice.

I find that some of these internal battles come from not hearing God's reassurance often enough. The more you read that God loves you and wants to intervene, the braver you might be at praying and feeling accepted by Him. That is why reading scriptures daily is so important (okay, not the only reason) -- that when we lose confidence in His love for us, we lose faith that He really considers us part of His family.

But you also have those bad experiences that have set up some walls of caution. Use your head here -- you know that if you are overly cautious, you will miss the benefits that come with shared fellowship. Start telling your head that you've given yourself a reasonable break from danger, and eventually you have to stick your toe back into the risk pool.

This time you will be more ready for trouble.