antichrists, false christs, The Antichrist

[Douggg]

Hi Doug

In your earlier message about the king of Tyrus which you said is a code name for antichrist, I would like to ask was the king of Tyrus a Jew. If the king of Tyrus was not a Jew then possibly the antichrist might also not be a Jew, just a thought.

The king of Tyrus, in Ezekiel 28:12-19, is a code name for Satan. Of course, Satan is an angel and is not a Jew or gentile. The Antichrist is prince of tyrus and Satan is king of Tyrus in the code names because the Antichrist gets his power from Satan.

The Jews just are not going to embrace someone who is not a Jew as their King mashiach. Are you trying to work in the Mahdi as the Antichrist? If so, he doesn't fit for other reasons as well.

 

[Interplanner]

There is no preterist end times Doug, because there is no preterism in the 4th decade of the 1st century when Mt 24 & //s are circulated in official form. Nor when 1 John and Hebrews was written. The objective of the Bible student is to understand it as originally written and heard.

The options for "the end" of Mt 24 & //s are:
the end of the 490 years (don't tell me no one knew or thought of them!)
the end of Judaism
the end of the old covenant
the end of Israel
the end of the whole world

Jesus awarded the seats of Israel to the apostles, but did not say whether they would die as he did. The restoration of Israel in OT vision always happens with the outpouring of the Spirit, as Peter said, even the favorite text of futurism--Ezek 38+ shows that but they don't deal with it or admit it.

 

[Biblewriter]

The objective of the Bible student is to understand it as originally written and heard.

The objective of a spiritual student of the scriptures is to understand what the Holy Spirit of God was really saying in each passage under consideration.

We are clearly told in (1 Peter 1:10-12) that the Old Testament prophets themselves did not understand what they were writing. If even the ones writing it did not understand it, how could someone else who read it in their times?

So the concept of considering what the original readers would have thought when they read it is false. It is not false in its details, but at its central core. The concept itself is a false standard.

 

[St Phoebe]

Doug
There are 7 billion people in the world population and 14 000 000 are Jews is it really important as to who the Jews will embrace as their Meshiach to determine who the Antichrist will be. 2.1 billion Christians and 1.5 billion Muslims and the rest of all other religions (not too sure about my figures), what about them must they feel that their existence wasn't really important to a Righteous God because only the Jews meant something to God. God promised Abraham that His descendants will be as the sand of the sea - that descendants make up the whole world. Do you think a just God will do something like that and make the rest of the world feel that God doesn't care enough about them and follow the beast anyway. The majority of people will take the mark of the beast but not because God has chosen the Jews above anyone else. They will take it because they did not accept God to be their God. God has chosen Israel because they were few in number and he loved them like you said previously, but He also wanted them to teach and lead the rest of the world to Him through Jesus yet they did not accept Jesus. The Jews refused to bear the fruit that goes with repentance and is symbolic of the fig tree that Jesus cursed. Whoever believes in Jesus shall be saved and the end times will be all about the ones that are born of the water and the spirit. The people that chose God. The antichrist could possibly be a Christian that turned away or even possibly converted to Muslim perhaps but I think it will be about the Abrahamic religions at the end, Jews, Christians and Muslims forming their coalitions. The one option that stands out for me is the Muslims.

 

[riverrat]

Hi Doug

In your earlier message about the king of Tyrus which you said is a code name for antichrist, I would like to ask was the king of Tyrus a Jew. If the king of Tyrus was not a Jew then possibly the antichrist might also not be a Jew, just a thought.

Daniel 11:37 seems to indicate that the antichrist will be a Jew. Also it is hard to imagine that Israel would accept him as being their Messiah unless He is a Jew.

 

[Bible2]

St Phoebe said in post 40:

You have quoted the Koran that Islam affirms that Jesus is the Christ and also that the bible says the antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ. Isn't Islam denies the father and the son. Doesn't the bible say - he that denies the father and the son is antichrist. Is the Koran the inspired wordof God or is the Bible.

Muslims affirm that Jesus is the Christ (Koran 4:157, Koran 4:171, Koran 5:17, Koran 5:72, Koran 5:75, Koran 9:31), but they say that Jesus Christ is only an apostle of God (Koran 4:171, Koran 5:75; cf. Hebrews 3:1), and not also the divine/human Son of God (Koran 4:171-172, Koran 5:17, Koran 5:72, Koran 9:30-31; contrast Hebrews 1:8). And they deny that Jesus Christ died on the Cross for our sins (Koran 4:157; contrast 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). The Antichrist won't support Islam during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (of Revelation 13:5-18), insofar as he will deny that Jesus is even the Christ (1 John 2:22). He will also contradict many other teachings of Islam, as was shown in post 35.

Even though Islam (in its current form) won't be the religion of the Antichrist during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, Islam could be, since the latter half of the 7th century AD, Revelation 17:10's seventh empire (the Antichrist's empire will be a different, still-future, 8th empire: Revelation 17:11). Also, because Islam falsely claims that the anti-gospel Koran came through the angel Gabriel, it is one fulfillment of Galatians 1:8-9 (cf. 2 Corinthians 11:14).

St Phoebe said in post 40:

The Muslims affirms that the God of the bible YHWH is the true God (why don't they worship the true God) then who is Allah, is Allah and YHWH the same, is the Koran and the bible the same - why does it say different things both cannot be right.

Muslims mistakenly think that the Bible has been corrupted, but they don't think that the (YHWH) God of the Bible himself is corrupt, but affirm that he is the true God. For they affirm that the God of the Biblical personages of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc., is the true God. They just always call him by the Arabic name of Allah (which simply means "God"), instead of by the Hebrew name YHWH.

 

[Bible2]

Douggg said in post 41:

Are you trying to work in the Mahdi as the Antichrist? If so, he doesn't fit for other reasons as well.

Regarding the Muslim "Mahdi" not fitting as the Antichrist, that's right.

Yet during the Antichrist's rise to power, before he declares himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36) and begins his 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), if he greatly increases the military and political power of the Arab world, which is mostly Muslim, many Muslims could declare him to be the Mahdi. They could do this even though he won't fulfill most of the detailed Muslim prophecies regarding the Mahdi. For the Muslim prophecies regarding the Mahdi aren't scriptural, and so nothing requires that they will all be fulfilled. Also, the Antichrist could reject the solely-human title of the "Mahdi", in his own mind, as being far beneath what he sees as his divinity. And before he declares himself to be God, if he rejects the title of "Mahdi" publicly, he could pretend to do so for humble reasons, saying something like: "Oh, no, I am not the great Mahdi, but a humble peacemaker who wants the best for all Arabs and for all mankind, no matter what religion they may presently follow", etc.

Also, the first person whom Muslims will declare to be the Mahdi may not even be the Antichrist. For before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45), an Iraqi Baathist General could lead an all-out war against Israel which will result in the total defeat and occupation of Israel (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"). This Iraqi Baathist General could then be hailed by Muslims worldwide as the Mahdi. But he will subsequently suffer a defeat (perhaps in Algeria) and then he will mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:18-19), so that the Muslims could say they were mistaken in thinking he was the Mahdi.

Similarly, years later, when the Antichrist claims to be God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), and starts forcing the world to worship him (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9) and an image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15), if many Muslims had said that he was the Mahdi, some of them could say they were mistaken. Also, these actions by the Antichrist will result in a fatwa (a death sentence) being issued against him by radical Muslim clerics, which fatwa Islamic terrorists could then try to carry out by waging all-out jihad ("holy war") against him. For they hold most strongly to Islam's tenets that no man can be God, that Lucifer/Satan is evil, and that no image can be worshipped. But the terrorist part of Islam (just as even the moderate part of Islam, and just as even public, Biblical Christianity) will eventually be wiped out during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, when everyone (not in hiding) will be forced to either convert to the Antichrist's religion of Gnostic Luciferianism or be killed (Revelation 13:4-18; 1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7).

Also, even though Jews today don't go around killing people for religious reasons, by the time the Antichrist declares himself to be God, some ultra-Orthodox Jews, led by a miracle-working false "Messiah", might also feel inspired to try to kill the Antichrist for blasphemy, especially when he will commit it (at least one time) even within their own temple (2 Thessalonians 2:4), and he will defile their temple (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15). The Antichrist could also sit (at least one time) in every other religions' holiest shrine and declare himself to be God there as well. For example, he could sit in Islam's Kaaba in Mecca, in the Sikhs' Golden Temple in Amritsar, in Catholicism's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, etc. This could result in the radical adherents of every religion becoming so enraged at the Antichrist that they will attempt to assassinate him. But they will all fail, for he won't be defeated until Jesus returns (2 Thessalonians 2:8-9, Revelation 19:20).

--

In Muslim prophecy, besides the Mahdi, there is also "The Masih ad-Dajjal", or "The False Messiah", whom Muslims say will appear in the end times. While Bible prophecy shows that there will be multiple false Messiahs, who will be able to perform amazing miracles (Matthew 24:24), Muslims could focus on one of these, a miracle-working, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" in Israel, as being "The Masih ad-Dajjal", after he declares himself to be the Messiah but then (with his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers) destroys the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to clear the site for the building of a 3rd Jewish temple.

It could be this destruction of the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, by a man whom the Muslims could declare to be "The Masih ad-Dajjal", that will give rise to the war in which another man, an Arab who could be the first man whom the Muslims will declare to be the Mahdi, will completely defeat and occupy Israel (Daniel 11:15-17).

 

[St Phoebe]

If Tyre is referring to the Antichrist than for me it has great significance. Tyre is now Lebanon. 2 Kings 26 & 27 about Lebanon - therefore their inhabitants were of small power... but I know thy abode, and thy coming in, and thy rage against Me. The antichrist will possibly come from Lebanon of which the majority religion is Islam at 54%. This is how I see the end times and the coming of the Antichrist on the world stage. I have read somewhere that in Tyre the people used to worship Baal. In 2 Kings the people used to burn incense to Baal, to the sun, and the moon and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven. The Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Islam and Christianity will worship Creation rather than the Creator similar to Baal worship of the olden days. Though they will not worship the true God, they will never come together as portrayed in Nebuchadnezzars image of the iron/clayfeet (spiritually). Islam is a modern version of the ancient fertility religion of the moon god - moon worship. In the church of Rome, the monstrance of the symbol of the sun raised by the Pope - sun worship. Judaism - the Israelites fell into this kind of idolatry, the latter name of their star god is Saturn and in all the Bible prophecies the Jews idolatry was always an issue - Star Worship. Islam says the God of the bible YHWH is the true God (Allah in Arabic) and that EL is God (Allah) - Baal was also called EL wikipedia??? Wish all could see the documentary of Americas beginnings of how the sun moon and stars had to be in alignment for the final stages of prophecy (antichrist phase). Ezekiel sees the image of jealousy in the North, Isaiah where satan says he will sit on the mount of the congregation in the sides of the North and in Rev the dragon that old serpent satan was cast out of heaven. Satans kingdom will be set up here on earth. YHWH and ALLAH cannot be the same - One has to be God and one has to be Satan. Islam Allah (the Dragon). The antichrist which is letting now is the Roman Papacy (the Beast) and the second beast is the SDA church with their false prophet which is a copy of Judaism even to the point of their Saturn worship on Saturday Judaism (the False Prophet). If the sun , moon and stars is in perfect alignment then the final form of the antichrist will arise probably from Lebanon and the physical image will be set up. Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, ad the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken. All these systems shall fall because the Rock will hit the image at the feet of iron and clay. The gate to God - Babylon that they have set up has fallen and then will the three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast/antichrist and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Dougg


Quote
At that time, he is not going to be doing signs and wonders. The verse you are citing is in 2thessalonians2:9 which is at least three or more years after his initial arrival.
End Quote

Well that may be how you need to see it but that is not what Paul says. Paul clearly says at his Arrival.

9:The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders,

The coming not the after three years .....The Coming.......The arrival.

King James Version
2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

American Standard Version
2:9 even he, whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Bible in Basic English
2:9 Even the one whose coming is marked by the working of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,

Noah Webster Bible
2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power, and signs, and lying wonders,

Weymouth New Testament
2:9 The appearing of the Lawless one will be attended by various miracles and tokens and delusive marvels--for so Sa
tan works--

Dougg at the arrival of the AC the great wonder happens.

We know what the great wonder is.

[13] It works great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in the sight of men;

He is not some political leader he is the beast in the pit. The pit does not get opened till AFTER the first four trumpets. So after massive catastrophe.

People will be waiting anticipating Jesus return...........he will show up out of the pit and bring Fire from heaven in the sight of men.

Scripture is very clear about this. There is no guessing involved we are told these things with 100% certainty.

 

[Douggg]

Hi Dougg


Quote
At that time, he is not going to be doing signs and wonders. The verse you are citing is in 2thessalonians2:9 which is at least three or more years after his initial arrival.
End Quote

Well that may be how you need to see it but that is not what Paul says. Paul clearly says at his Arrival.

9:The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders,

The coming not the after three years .....The Coming.......The arrival.

It's talking about the Antichrist's coming in general. His time in history.
Then a person has to determine when in his career he is doing the signs and wonders by the power of Satan.

He is not some political leader he is the beast in the pit. The pit does not get opened till AFTER the first four trumpets. So after massive catastrophe.

People will be waiting anticipating Jesus return...........he will show up out of the pit and bring Fire from heaven in the sight of men.

Scripture is very clear about this. There is no guessing involved we are told these things with 100% certainty.

In 1John2:18, those early believers already heard that Antichrist shall come. The beast in the bottomless pit was not known about until John was told about him in Revelation.

The Antichrist is a different person in a context that those early believers would have understood. Which is as a coming false King of Israel mashiach.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Dougg


Quote
It's talking about the Antichrist's coming in general. His time in history
End Quote

No that is what you want it to say. What it says is at his arrival.

Quote
In 1John2:18, those early believers already heard that Antichrist shall come. The beast in the bottomless pit was not known about until John was told about him in Revelation.

The Antichrist is a different person in a context that those early believers would have understood. Which is as a coming false King of Israel mashiach.
End Quote

Dougg you are just mistaken. They knew EXACTLY who Jesus was talking about in MAtt 24. They had the book of Enoch they knew the Beast in the pit was Azazel. The book of Enoch is quoted and referenced over 30 times in the NT.

Look at Jude.

6: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.............................13: Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.14: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

These verses above are direct quotes from Enoch. The raging waves / Fallen Stars are the Fallen Angels. Then read Rev 12

4: And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:

and rev 19 and the ten thousands of saints

14: And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation itself has over a dozen references to Enoch.

You are wrong they knew exactly who the AC was......Today people are lost because Enoch was banned and burned by all the false teachers that arrived after the persecution by the Nations in 325AD. Through false teachers and doctrine's of Demons Satan has hidden the Identity of the AC deceiving people into believing a lie. That lie is that the AC is a man. He is not he is a Fallen Angel locked in the pit.

 

[Douggg]

Hi Dougg


Quote
It's talking about the Antichrist's coming in general. His time in history
End Quote

No that is what you want it to say. What it says is at his arrival.

When he comes. The Antichrist hasn't come yet. When he comes, he will do the signs and wonders, but it doesn't mean the first thing he does.

Quote
In 1John2:18, those early believers already heard that Antichrist shall come. The beast in the bottomless pit was not known about until John was told about him in Revelation.

The Antichrist is a different person in a context that those early believers would have understood. Which is as a coming false King of Israel mashiach.
End Quote

Dougg you are just mistaken. They knew EXACTLY who Jesus was talking about in MAtt 24. They had the book of Enoch they knew the Beast in the pit was Azazel. The book of Enoch is quoted and referenced over 30 times in the NT.

No they didn't think the Antichrist shall come is Azazel.

The beast in the bottomless pit was not revealed until revelation, decades later.

Look at Jude.

6: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.............................13: Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.14: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

These verses above are direct quotes from Enoch. The raging waves / Fallen Stars are the Fallen Angels. Then read Rev 12

4: And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:

and rev 19 and the ten thousands of saints

14: And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation itself has over a dozen references to Enoch.

And you have a quote from the book of Enoch that Azazel is the beast in the bottomless pit, that revelation was quoting Enoch?

You are wrong they knew exactly who the AC was......

Not by personage they didn't know. And no-one know him by name even today.

Today people are lost because Enoch was banned and burned by all the false teachers that arrived after the persecution by the Nations in 325AD. Through false teachers and doctrine's of Demons Satan has hidden the Identity of the AC deceiving people into believing a lie. That lie is that the AC is a man. He is not he is a Fallen Angel locked in the pit.

So how do you know what the book of Enoch says, without a copy? The bible says his number is 666, which is the number of a man, not an angel.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

Quote
And you have a quote from the book of Enoch that Azazel is the beast in the bottomless pit, that revelation was quoting Enoch?
End Quote

I did not say it quoted it. said it referenced it

ref·er·ence

noun \ˈre-fərn(t)s, ˈre-f(ə-)rən(t)s\

: the act of mentioning something in speech or in writing

So the Beast is in the Pit.

8: The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:

20: And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

So the Beast is locked in the pit gets out and goes to the lake of fire.

10:4..........the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening 5 in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may 6,7 not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire.

8:.......................and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The beast was on Earth before the flood, is not right now because he is locked in the Pit. He will rise out of the pit perform the great wonder of fire from heaven in the sight of men. Mankind will be in awe of this great wonder and believe the Beast is God / Jesus returned.

Quote
The bible says his number is 666, which is the number of a man, not an angel.
End Quote

Just because it says it is the number of a man does not mean he is not an Angel. It just means it is man's math.

Every notice how God does everything in seven's and twelve's.

Yet mans math is always in 10's

It is called 10 base math

Hex decimal is 16 base math

God's and there by the Angel's math is 12 base math.

On the surface twelve base math seems sooooooo complicated. But it is not really it makes far more sense then 10 base math.

Seven is the first prime after the four roots of 2,3,4,6

The only prime in the middle IE: 5 as a factor with 12 gives you 60 which is the basis of everything to do with time. 60 seconds in a minute 60 minutes in an Hour two 12 hour sections making day and night. 360 degrees in a circle 60 minutes in a degree. It really does just go on and on and on. .333333* and .666666* had to use the star sorry..........these ever recurring infinite fractions create anomalies in 10 base math. IE .33333* = 1/3 yet 3 times 1/3 = 1 and three times .33333* = .99999*. because of these anomalies you can prove the .99999* is = to 1 when it really isn't.

x = .99999*
10x = 9.9999*

10x = 9.9999*
- x = .9999*
9x = 9

x = 1

But I digress.

So the number of a man not of The Angels and God.

666 is a representation of the imperfection of man's math. In addition it is the sum of the numerical value of the letters of the name of the Beast in the language of revelation IE Greek which you guessed it is 10 base math.

God's math and measurement 12 base.......... the cubit is 18 or later 24 inches. Inches and feet derived as divisions of the cubit....... cubits are 12 base math... Metric is man's math ie:10 base.

Rv:21:17: And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

Greek math is 10 base....not cubits which is 12 base.

12 x 12

Do you understand?????

 

[Douggg]

So the Beast is locked in the pit gets out and goes to the lake of fire.

10:4..........the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening 5 in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may 6,7 not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire.

If a person uses that verses and compares it with what happens to the Antichrist-beast, there are a thousand years difference between when the Antichrist-beast is thrown alive into the lake of fire and the day of great judgment. Azazel is brought out of that opening until the day of judgement.

On the other hand, the unclean spirit of the beast comes out of the bottomless pit with 42 months left. Up to that point, the beast is represented by Satan. Satan also can't be the beast for the same reason as Azazel is not the beast - there are a thousand years separation between the Antichrist-beast is cast alive into the lake of fire and Satan and the rebellious angels are cast into the lake of fire.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,


10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

 

[Douggg]

base 10 math is based on man first counting using the number of digits on his hands.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Dougg

Quote
If a person uses that verses and compares it with what happens to the Antichrist-beast, there are a thousand years difference between when the Antichrist-beast is thrown alive into the lake of fire and the day of great judgment. Azazel is brought out of that opening until the day of judgement.
End Quote

No you are mistaken. Judgement day starts at the beginning of the thousand years. Satan and the fallen Angels are Judged. Satan is locked in the Pit and the Fallen Angels who are locked in the pit now IE: The Destroyers are put in the lake of fire.

4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:

Look at Rv: 11:

18: And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

1. Time for Judging the dead.
2. Rewarding the servants.
3. Destroying the Destroyers.

Now start in Rev 19 all three things in reverse order.

20: And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The Destroyer is destroyed in the lake of fire.

4: And saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Saints are rewarded and given thrones and the right of Judgement.

12: And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The Dead are Judged.

All this happens on Judgement Day or the seventh Trumpet.

15: And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16: And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17: Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.18: And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.19: And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the 8 Watchers have destroyed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted 9 through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all the whole crime.

Now Jude

6: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day...............

We know the chains are unlocked here.

1: And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.............................11: And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Above the destroyers are released. As we see below they are released and the Jesus comes with the armies of heaven

Jude 1:13: Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.14: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

19: And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20: And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Are you getting this yet???

 

[Douggg]

Hi Dougg

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If a person uses that verses and compares it with what happens to the Antichrist-beast, there are a thousand years difference between when the Antichrist-beast is thrown alive into the lake of fire and the day of great judgment. Azazel is brought out of that opening until the day of judgement.
End Quote

No you are mistaken. Judgement day starts at the beginning of the thousand years. Satan and the fallen Angels are Judged. Satan is locked in the Pit and the Fallen Angels who are locked in the pit now IE: The Destroyers are put in the lake of fire.

The only two that are cast into the lake of fire are the false prophet and the Antichrist-beast at Jesus return. The rest, them who are destroying the earth, and them who have gathered to make war against Jesus are physically destroyed at Jesus's return.

But they are not cast into the lake of fire, as hell and hades give up the dead, until at the end of the 1000 years.

4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:

Look at Rv: 11:

18: And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

1. Time for Judging the dead.
2. Rewarding the servants.
3. Destroying the Destroyers.

Now start in Rev 19 all three things in reverse order.

20: And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The Destroyer is destroyed in the lake of fire.

But Abaddon is not the only one who is destroying the earth - you are selecting him as the one cast into the lake of fire as the beast, but he actually is leading the torment of them not having the seal of God. So he is not the beast accordingly, using that rationale, because there are mulititudes who will be destroyed for destroying the world. The issue is when those are cast into the lake of fire. And there are only two individual cast alive into the lake of fire at Jesus Return.

The rest will be cast into the lake of fire a thousand years later.

4: And saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Saints are rewarded and given thrones and the right of Judgement.

Okay, they will live and reign with Jesus for the thousand years.

12: And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The Dead are Judged.

All this happens on Judgement Day or the seventh Trumpet.

The seventh trumpet announces the process which the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and his Christ.

15: And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16: And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17: Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.18: And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.19: And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The first act in that process of the kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of God and His Christ, is that there is the war in heaven and Satan cast down along with his angels - Babylon is fallen, is fallen. That principality that has overshadowed man, the kingdoms of this earth, since the beginning is being taken down, when the seventh trumpet sounds.

And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the 8 Watchers have destroyed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted 9 through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all the whole crime.

Azazel appears to be a powerful angel acting on the behalf of Satan, to carry out Satan's planned destruction of God's creation. When Jesus returns and begins his thousand year reign, he will restore all things.

Now Jude

6: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day...............

We know the chains are unlocked here.

1: And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.............................11: And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Above the destroyers are released. As we see below they are released and the Jesus comes with the armies of heaven

But there are only two persons cast alive into the lake of fire at Jesus's return. You are calling them coming out of the bottomless pit in the form of locust as being destroyers - which that would be a multitude, but only two individuals are cast into the lake of fire at Jesus's return. So your rationale is flawed, as far as when those will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

Actually, the bible is silent on what becomes of the fallen angels cast down (who are not even in the bottomless pit) along with Satan in Revelation 12. It would be more rational that they meet the same temporary end as Satan and are cast into the bottomless pit. And then all, that is, Satan, the cast down angels, Azazel, Abaddon, the locusts, the angels held there since the flood - released from the bottomless pit at the end of the thousand years for the final battle, and then are cast into the lake of fire with Satan. It could be all, or maybe only part to take part in that battle. The lake of fire will be imminent for all of them.

There will be only two individuals cast alive into the lake of fire at Jesus's return. I think I have noted repeatedly that the beast in the bottomless pit, the expression "was" and "is not" means that he was alive but no longer is alive. That applies to beasts, humans, and nephilim,which death entered the world, not angels. Which eliminates, Azazel and Abaddon, or any other angel.

That really narrows down the choices of who could be the beast in the bottomless pit. It could be Nimrod, who would have to have had to become a nephilim, a giborim. Or it could be the serpent in the garden, an actual beast. I lean toward Nimrod because of his association with the tower of Babel, Semiramis, and the start of all false religion, and unifying humanity in rebellion against God, which got God's ire in the first judgment of the world after the flood.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Dougg


The Beast and the False Prophet are the only two Fallen Angels that we are directly told go to the lake of fire. That does not preclude the rest also going.

They are two separate judgements. The Angels at the beginning of the 1,000 years and Men at the end of the 1,000 years.

1Cor:6:3: Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

The Saints are given the right of Judgement.

4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:

The first thing they do is Judge the Beast (IE: the Fallen Angels from the pit) to the lake of fire. Revelation only mentions the Beast and the False Prophet because they are the Leaders of the Fallen Angels.

Think about this for a minute. Abandon the Angel King of the pit gets let out of the pit and then does what.........Kneels before a Man which you claim is the beast. .......or Kneel before some other Angel.

You do not seem to understand these Fallen Angels acted on this plan before the flood. Their plan is to overthrow God and sit as God over the Universe. Their taking of human wives was not just a lust thing. The armies of heaven number in the hundreds of thousands, they are but 200 fallen Angels. They need an army. That is why Azazel taught mankind weapons and war. Why did they do this the answer is obvious.

19: And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

They needed an army to take on Jesus and the Armies of heaven and mankind will be their army.

The Demons are not locust they are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. When they are released from the pit they will posses men and be the leaders of the armies of the world against Jesus and the armies of heaven. That is why men will long for death but not have it. They will not be in control of their own bodies. We know from the gospels that these demons have been driven into the pit. Some may still be loose doing the parents(fallen Angels) bidding.

Just because it only mentions the two fallen angels it does not mean that the rest do not also go to the lake of fire. You are a assuming a negative. You can not prove a negative. Like you pointed the fate of the rest of the fallen angels it not mentioned in Revelation. Why because John did not need to say that......... everyone knew from the book of Enoch they are all going to the lake of fire.

The laying out of Judgement day from the start at the first resurrection to the raising of the dead humans at the end lends credence to the theory that all the Fallen Angels are cast into the lake of fire at the start of the 1,000 years.....All except Satan who is kept in the pit to once more deceive the nations after the 1,000 years.

 

[St Phoebe]

This is how I see the things - The antichrist is not fallen angels that ascended out of the pit. The first beast rose out of the sea and the second beast out of land. The devil was cast out of heaven to the earth and that is the place where he is walking now, he walks around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. Also our wrestle is not against flesh and blood but against powers and principalities and rulers of darkness in high places. In the olden days, the idols and false worship systems were always in high places and groves even till today (building their high temples) and that’s where the devil and his fallen angels are now. The evil spirit of Satan will ascend out of the bottomless pit (devil headquarters lol) and will possess the person that will come as the antichrist. There are three feasts that have not been fulfilled as yet. Feast of trumpets, Jesus second coming where he will gather all his elect from the four corners of the earth (the death and them which are alive will be caught up in the clouds with translated bodies) and then the battle of Armageddon with all the living followers of the antichrist and the army of Jesus will take place also same as the war of Gog/Magog then will the beast and false prophet be cast in the lake of fire. Satan will be bound up for a 1000 years/ saints will be in heaven for their part of the judgement ( one day is as a 1000 years and a thousand years as one day) similar to the booth camps meaning that where the heavenly sanctuary is, the one that was the master and the earthly just a copy. I think God will want us to see the heavenly sanctuary. After the new Jerusalem will descend later, the current heaven and earth will pass away. The day of atonement - the white throne judgement will take place where all the dead sinners will also arise out of their graves and all will be judged. The atonement used to be a seven day feast, it will be long. The devil which is also Azazel the scapegoat and Jesus which represents the Lords goat (though he will not die again as his vesture is dipped in blood - represents Christ’s death on the cross) the devil and his followers will be cast in the lake of fire. Jesus has already paid the price for our redemption and will make the atonement for all of us so that all the saints and the sanctuary can be at one with the Lord and then the confession of sins on Azazel, the scapegoat (originator of sin). Feasts of tabernacles – the New Jerusalem will then ascend out of heaven and the sinners will want to climb up to the breadths to take the city but God will send fire to consume them then all the saints will move in the New Jerusalem. The old heaven and old earth will be gone even the former heavenly sanctuary and the one that will possibly be resurrected here on earth. In the new Jerusalem there will be no ark of the covenant for there will never be sin there again and there will be no sun for YHWH & Yeshua will be the light. There will be no moon and stars for there will be no night. No sin will ever enter there for outside are the whoremongers and idolators. That will conclude/end the old sanctuary system and it will be a new beginning in the new Jerusalem. He is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. Does my end time interpretation make sense or not??? I did not cover the 7 year tribulation.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Phoebe

I just want to clarify what you have said.

You believe Azazel is Satan?

You believe a demon will posses a man and become the AC?

You understand Demons are not fallen Angels?