Antichrist/Beast/Man of Sin/Little Horn Separate and distinct or the Same?

parousia70

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It never ceases to amaze me how much mythology has been built up over 2000 years on this idea of a Mr. Antichrist world ruler dude. No such thing exists anywhere in the bible, yet so many Christians buy into it hook, line, and sinker -- thanks to Hal Lindsey, J. Hagee, LaHaye, and other so-called "prophecy experts."

It would be fun, however, to start a Christian game show called "Name That Antichrist" where people have to put their knowledge to the test, guessing all the various endtimes antichrists put forth each year for the past four decades by dispensationalists.

"I'll take Obama for $100, please Alex."

LOL
 
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Revealing Times

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There is not a single shred of biblical evidence the term "beast" and Satan are one in the same. They are entirely separate and different entities. Nowhere is the term "beast" used as one of the many names for the Devil. There is however irrefutable biblical evidence which proves the Devil, the beast and the false prophet are completely separate individuals.

"And the DEVIL that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone: WHERE THE BEAST AND FALSE PROPHET ARE, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever" (Revelation 20:10).

If Satan is the beast, How is the beast thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet already are ???

(Answer) It's not possible !

The term "beast" as used by Daniel refers to "government" entities. The same description is also found in the Revelation (Rev. 13:1, 11). We also read in Revelation 13:18 the number of the beast is the number of a man, not the number of the Devil. So the beast can either be a system of government, or a man.. Period !.. Those are the only two definitions of the beast found in the Bible.

The antichrist is therefore a man ! He is not Satan incarnated as a flesh and blood living-breathing human being born of a woman. Which is a "fictional" construct of Evangelicals like Tim LeHaye and Hollywood movies.. Neither of which has anything to do with what the biblical "beast" actually represents.
EXACTLY....And the reason the word Beast is used for the little horn or Anti-Christ is because he is the Last Beat Power that conquers Israel. Once he dies, there will be no successor. Thus God sent the Angel to reveal this to us in Rev. 17, by "reducing" the Seven Heads to Seven Mountains which are ALSO Seven Kings. 5 Have Fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece) ONE IS (Rome) and one is YET TO COME (Anti-Christ/Beast).

Satan is called a Dragon. There is one place where I think Apollyon is called a Beast,.. Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,......But only in reference to him being the 8th King which was over the 7 Kings. In other words he was the "BEAST" behind the curtain. The quasi spiritual force behind the Beasts, but he is not a true physical Beast.
 
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Douggg

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There is one place where I think Apollyon is called a Beast,.. Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,......But only in reference to him being the 8th King which was over the 7 Kings. In other words he was the "BEAST" behind the curtain. The quasi spiritual force behind the Beasts, but he is not a true physical Beast.
Well, the beast is not Apollyon because Apollyon is an angel. And the term "was, and is not" does not apply to angels.

The other reason is because Apollyon is released after the war in heaven and Satan cast down. Which that war takes place after the two witnesses are overcome and killed by the beast who makes war on them. So the beast will be already out of the bottomless pit - while Apollyon is still captive there.
 
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Revealing Times

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Well, the beast is not Apollyon because Apollyon is an angel. And the term "was, and is not" does not apply to angels.

The other reason is because Apollyon is released after the war in heaven and Satan cast down. Which that war takes place after the two witnesses are overcome and killed by the beast who makes war on them. So the beast will be already out of the bottomless pit - while Apollyon is still captive there.

Sure the word was and is not yet is can be used about Angels, HE WAS free to roam as he pleased, HE IS bound in chains and thus IS NOT (Able to wreak havoc) yet he will be able to when God looses him from the pit.

Maybe this Demon had one purpose, maybe God bound him to one purpose, to come against Israel when she sinned after all he is the Destroyer, he was around until Rome, he was locked away, and he will be loosed. For you to insinuate God couldn't do this is kind of restraining God isn't it ?

The 8th King is called a Beast. As I pointed out above. He was, is not and SHALL ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT...........Either John was calling him a Beast because he didn't know what to call him, or he is the 8th King over all the Beasts. The Passage does say he was of the SEVEN.
 
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Douggg

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Sure the word was and is not yet is can be used about Angels, HE WAS free to roam as he pleased, HE IS bound in chains and thus IS NOT (Able to wreak havoc) yet he will be able to when God looses him from the pit.
The language "was and is not" refers to the person having been alive, but no longer is. That is the person's current state. A disembodied spirit in the bottomless pit.

Similar language is found in Revelation 1:4 of Jesus. He is alive, He was killed on earth, He is coming back.

Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

The 8th King is called a Beast. As I pointed out above. He was, is not and SHALL ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT...........Either John was calling him a Beast because he didn't know what to call him, or he is the 8th King over all the Beasts. The Passage does say he was of the SEVEN.
The beast as a kingdom that John saw was the fourth kingdom, the Roman empire

The beast as a king was in the bottomless pit at the time of John, first century..

John never saw the beast as a king. John was told informed by the angel that the beast will become the 8th king of the Roman empire (of the end times as it turns out).

8 The beast [as a king] that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The Passage does say he was of the SEVEN.

No ,the passage does not he was of the seven. But is of the seven. The seventh king has not yet come. So being of the seven is relevant to king seven.

Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
 
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stephen583

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I don't believe the final "beast" has anything to do with the "ancient" Roman empire being resurrected. At least not in any "strict" literal sense anyway. I think this is a common misinterpretation by End Time Bible scholars. Here's why.

"And I saw one of the heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed; and all the world wondered after the beast" (Revelation 13:3).

Notice in this passage one of the seven original heads of the beast (system of world government) is "wounded as it were dead".. and then the deadly wound is "healed". This is where the Roman empire "resurrection" idea originates from. But is it historically correct ?

To begin with, looking at it from purely a historical perspective, the ancient Roman empire was never totally destroyed. Although the Visigoths did sack the city of Rome in 410 AD, the Western capital of Rome had already been moved to Constantinople by the Emperor Constantine in 330 AD. and survived the sack of Rome.

From there, Christianity transformed the ancient Roman empire into the Christian "Byzantine" empire.. So technically ancient Rome never died, it was transformed, or assimilated depending on your viewpoint.

On the other hand, the Soviet Union did receive a "deadly wound" in 1991 and did cease to exist completely and Stalinism was thought to have been tossed upon the trash heap of history.

Until in 2012 Vladimir Putin was elected President of Russia after which he vowed to restore Russia to its' former glory" under the Soviet Union. Ever since, Putin has been busy "resurrecting" Stalinism in Russia.

Was any part of the ancient Roman empire later part of the Soviet empire ? Actually yes. Germany, Romania, Bulgaria and Albania were all once Roman provinces. "Google it". So geographically speaking, the Soviet Bloc of Eastern Europe and the 2012 resurrection of Stalinism by Putin fits the bill of Revelation 13:3.

In fact, in 1947 the Soviet Bloc in Eastern Europe was composed of 10 kingdoms. The U.S.S.R, East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia, Albania and the RCC population of Eastern Europe representing the Vatican State, (the miry clay Psalm 40:2 representing infirm religion) mixed with iron described in Daniel 2:43).. Prophecy fulfilled ! (Revelation 17:12).

This makes the resurrected Soviet empire (The New Cold War era beast system) 2012-2017 under Vladimir Putin the eighth beast.
 
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Douggg

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I don't believe the final "beast" has anything to do with the "ancient" Roman empire being resurrected. At least not in any "strict" literal sense anyway. I think this is a common misinterpretation by End Time Bible scholars. Here's why.

"And I saw one of the heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed; and all the world wondered after the beast" (Revelation 13:3).

Notice in this passage one of the seven original heads of the beast (system of world government) is "wounded as it were dead".. and then the deadly wound is "healed". This is where the Roman empire "resurrection" idea originates from. But is it historically correct ?
Stephen, there are only two things to remember:

1. The four beasts in Daniel 7 represent four kingdoms
2. The four beasts in Daniel 7 also represent four kings. And the only one of those kings we are concerned with is the end times little horn king.

In Revelation, same thing.

1. The beast represents the fourth kingdom
2. The beast represents the king of the fourth kingdom.

The kings are the heads and horns on the beast. It is one of the heads (kings) that is mortally wounded and healed. So it not talking about any kingdom being mortally wounded, healed - a resurrection of a kingdom so to speak.

So there is no resurrection of the Roman Empire, no resurrection of any empire. While there is an end times version of the Roman Empire as the EU - it has nothing to do with an empire resurrected from being mortally wounded.

And forget the Russia, Soviet Union, Putin stuff. The mortally wounded and recovered head is talking about some future leader of the EU, sometime just before the middle of the seven years being killed and brought back to life.

This makes the resurrected Soviet empire (The New Cold War era beast system) 2012-2017 under Vladimir Putin the eighth beast.
There are no eight beasts.

The beast currently in the bottomless pit as a disembodied spirit will partake as being the eighth king - of the fourth empire, by possessing the killed and brought back to life future leader of the EU. It is that simple..
 
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stephen583

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Of course you can wait forever for the European Market
And forget the Russia, Soviet Union, Putin stuff. The mortally wounded and recovered head is talking about some future leader of the EU, sometime just before the middle of the seven years being killed and brought back to life.


You can wait till the Second Coming for the EU to become some resurrected Roman empire if you want. That particular myth is never going to be fulfilled. So I'm going to stick with what has actually been historically fulfilled, as opposed to believing in made up stories that haven't happened and aren't going to happen.

I'm not really into FICTION.
 
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Douggg

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Of course you can wait forever for the European Market



You can wait till the Second Coming for the EU to become some resurrected Roman empire if you want. That particular myth is never going to be fulfilled. So I'm going to stick with what has actually been historically fulfilled, as opposed to believing in made up stories that haven't happened and aren't going to happen.

I'm not really into FICTION.
Stephen, the future mortally wounded and recovered head is a king - not a kingdom. It is not the Soviet Union.
 
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Douggg

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You can wait till the Second Coming for the EU to become some resurrected Roman empire if you want.
Stephen go back and read my post. I wrote that the mortally wounded and come back to life head - is a king, not a kingdom. I have never said anything that the Roman Empire would be "resurrected".
 
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Revealing Times

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The language "was and is not" refers to the person having been alive, but no longer is. That is the person's current state. A disembodied spirit in the bottomless pit.
That is your assumption. I disagree, MEN do not come back from the PIT, men have ONE LIFE. A man can not be OF THE SEVEN, only a Demon can be of the Seven. In Revelation chapter 9 Appolyon is released from the Pit.
Similar language is found in Revelation 1:4 of Jesus. He is alive, He was killed on earth, He is coming back.

Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Jesus IS GOD, he can be which is and which was and which is to come, as can a Demon Spirit, no Human can come back to life, Jesus spoke about this when he told the man asking him about his kin folks who had died. Jesus said there is a Gulf, that can not be crossed.

Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

The beast as a kingdom that John saw was the fourth kingdom, the Roman empire

The beast as a king was in the bottomless pit at the time of John, first century..

John never saw the beast as a king. John was told informed by the angel that the beast will become the 8th king of the Roman empire (of the end times as it turns out).

8 The beast [as a king] that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Yea, well as you know I don't cotton to this. The Beast in the Bottomless pit is a Demon, I personally think it is Apollyon, and he is the Demon over all the Beat Kingdoms that sought to destroy Israel. Once Rome lost its dominion, and Israel was no more he was locked into a pit, until the end times when Israel is to be conquered again, and this is just an educated guess. Either way, their is a Demonic King who is the 8th King, and was of the Seven. But there is only Seven Heads, the 8th King is of the Seven meaning he is a Demon, be it Satan or Apollyon.

Te Roman Empire was the Fourth Beast at Johns time. The Little Horn with be the Fifth Beast, when you add in the two Beasts who lived before Nebuchadnezzar we get Rome being the Sixth Beast/Head and the Anti-Christ being the Seventh Head and Last Beast.
No ,the passage does not he was of the seven. But is of the seven. The seventh king has not yet come. So being of the seven is relevant to king seven.

Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

If in the future, he is of the SEVEN, then that means he WAS of the FIRST SIX Beasts.............Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. A play on words depends on what time frame you are viewing it from.
 
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parousia70

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Too bad then.

So you can't provide your synopsis?
That is too bad.

Like I said, sitting through an hour and a half long advertisement for selling ones book is not something I'm interested in.

If you'd care to offer YOUR personal views in your own words, I'm more than happy to consider them thoughtfully.
 
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parousia70

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Everybody else but you have, that counts about 10 others, I dunno why you can't overcome such simple video?

Its a 1.5 hour long advertisement to sell a book.
Why would I want to sit through that?

Do you have an opinion of your own that you can articulate in a few paragraphs?

I'd happily sit through that.
 
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ver 2-10

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Its a 1.5 hour long advertisement to sell a book.
Why would I want to sit through that?

Do you have an opinion of your own that you can articulate in a few paragraphs?

I'd happily sit through that.
I'm sure you have the willpower to resist the temptation of buying a silly book, the full explanation are in the video.

No, I'm not going to quote anything because I know I will miss important chronological sentences.

I'm not here to hand feed you everything, you need to fight for yourself.
 
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