Antichrist/Beast/Man of Sin/Little Horn Separate and distinct or the Same?

Neogaia777

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Since this topic has come up often in various threads, it seemed to deserve it's own.

For all of you who believe the Biblical "antichrist", the Biblical "man of Sin" and the Biblical "Beast" are one and the same individual, please provide as concise a scriptural analysis as you can to demonstrate this connection.

For those who hold that they are synonymous, I suggest that the best way to prove your case is to find parallel passages that speak of each character performing the same function or speaking of each character as synonymous participants in the same capacity at the same event.

Connect all 3 or connect any 2, but demonstrate this connection with scripture.

Any reply that consists of "Well, it's commonly known that the beast is the antichrist", or "People have always called the man of sin "antichrist", or "Everybody knows that the beast and the man of sin are the same person", or "wikipedia says they are the same"...will be summarily dismissed as invalid.

Please post the "Scriptural connection" not the "man made traditional" one.
They are separate entities with the same agenda or mind like Satan and the demons that are behind it are spiritually...

God Bless!
 
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parousia70

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It is the same person because of the time frames and characteristics in the end times bible passages are consistent as the person progresses between the different roles found in the different passages.

1. the prince who shall come confirms the covenant for seven years. Daniel 9:26-27.

2. the leader(s) of Israel are responsible to confirm the covenant per Deuteronomy 31:9-13 for seven years.

3. the human leader of Israel is the man-King of Israel, 1Samuel10:19

the prince who shall come is anointed the King of Israel, and is given a crown, the rider on the white horse, Revelation 6:2, Jesus the true King of Israel riding a white horse in Revelation 19:11

4. in the middle of the seven years, the person violates the covenant. Daniel 9:27, stopping the daily sacrifice.

5. the little horn in Daniel 8 violates the covenant by committing the transgression desolation. Daniel 8:12-13. stopping the daily sacrifice.

6. the revealed man of sin in sits in the temple of God claiming to be God - the transgression of desolation. 2Thessalonians2:4

7. the little horn in Daniel 8:25 magnifies himself in his heart

8. the prince of Tyre (code name for the person) magnifies himself in his heart, Ezekiel 28:6, sits in the seat of God, Ezekiel 28:2, claiming to be God. God has him killed. Brings him, the terrible of the nations, down to the pit, Ezekiel 28:7, Isaiah 14:16. The little horn person is killed, for the transgression of desolation act. The head on the beast in Revelation 13:3 is mortally wounded.

9. once in hell, and taunted, the person is cast out of the grave, Isaiah 14:19-20 because he destroys his people and his land, likened as the abominable branch - Jesus the righteous branch, the person is a Jew and the Antichrist gone bad. God, in disdain for the person, kicks the person out of the grave bringing him back to life. The recovered head on the beast in Revelation 13:3. He rules the world for 42 months, the second half of the seven years. Revelation 13:5

10. satan is cast down to earth with a time, times, half times left. Revelation 12:14.

11. satan gives his power to the beast, Revelation 13:2

12. the little horn persecutes the saints for a time, times, half times Daniel 7:25 - possessed by the unclean spirit ascending out of the bottomless pit - as the eighth king of the fourth kingdom.

13. until God passes judgement on the possessed little horn person in Daniel 7:26-28 and Revelation 19:20


And this person is properly, biblically identified as antichrist of 1 & 2 John based on which of those scriptures?
 
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parousia70

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I was merely showing from scripture that the man of sin is the son of perdition is the little horn is the beast of Revelation. You identified who you supposed I was referring to... I was simply answering the OP's query.

Did you leave out the scriptural connection to antichrist for a reason?
 
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parousia70

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We need to keep in mind that God is the Author of His Word and it is exactly as He wants it...it was written in a way to be understood by His last day peoples. Every book of the Bible has either prophesy for this time, object lessons for us at this time and instruction for God's people at this time.

So I'm clear, you are saying scripture had absolutely ZERO meaning or application to the people to whom it's books were directly addressed and first delivered to? (and every subsequent generation leading up to this one?)

The Bible was useless drivel to everyone in history before us?

That is your claim?

Oh... and didn't the apostles claim to be His "Last Day Peoples"?
Do you know something they didn't?
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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So I'm clear, you are saying scripture had absolutely ZERO meaning or application to the people to whom it's books were directly addressed and first delivered to? (and every subsequent generation leading up to this one?)

The Bible was useless drivel to everyone in history before us?

That is your claim?

Oh... and didn't the apostles claim to be His "Last Day Peoples"?
Do you know something they didn't?
Nope, never said that... you perhaps have heard of the multiple fulfilling of a prophesy theory? Each story, instuction etc. had it's fulfillment in a place and time for which it was intended but all of scripture speaks to us here at the end if time.

Btw, you never commented on what I provided for you. You asked a specific question to be shown with scripture and so far I'm the only one thats done what you have asked... and then you question a post I made with someone else as your response to me?

I'm doubtful you ever wanted any scriptural truth to begin with. I'll leave you with the supposition crew that's assembled here... hope you find what you're looking for.
 
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parousia70

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Nope, never said that... you perhaps have heard of the multiple fulfilling of a prophesy theory? Each story, instuction etc. had it's fulfillment in a place and time for which it was intended but all of scripture speaks to us here at the end if time.

So we should expect another virgin Birth? another Crucifixion?

Btw, you never commented on what I provided for you. You asked a specific question to be shown with scripture and so far I'm the only one thats done what you have asked... and then you question a post I made with someone else as your response to me?

Ahh but I did respond in my post #67

Why have you ignored it?
 
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parousia70

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Figure it out for yourself... maybe the cadre of prophesy scholars on here can help you with that.

So you have no scripture showing the connection.
Noted.
 
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stephen583

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There is not a single shred of biblical evidence the term "beast" and Satan are one in the same. They are entirely separate and different entities. Nowhere is the term "beast" used as one of the many names for the Devil. There is however irrefutable biblical evidence which proves the Devil, the beast and the false prophet are completely separate individuals.

"And the DEVIL that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone: WHERE THE BEAST AND FALSE PROPHET ARE, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever" (Revelation 20:10).

If Satan is the beast, How is the beast thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet already are ???

(Answer) It's not possible !

The term "beast" as used by Daniel refers to "government" entities. The same description is also found in the Revelation (Rev. 13:1, 11). We also read in Revelation 13:18 the number of the beast is the number of a man, not the number of the Devil. So the beast can either be a system of government, or a man.. Period !.. Those are the only two definitions of the beast found in the Bible.

The antichrist is therefore a man ! He is not Satan incarnated as a flesh and blood living-breathing human being born of a woman. Which is a "fictional" construct of Evangelicals like Tim LeHaye and Hollywood movies.. Neither of which has anything to do with what the biblical "beast" actually represents.
 
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Douggg

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And this person is properly, biblically identified as antichrist of 1 & 2 John based on which of those scriptures?
1John2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Anti - means instead of and/or against....

Christ the King of Israel.

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

parousia70, why do you think Herod wanted to kill Jesus as an infant when the wisemen came through?
 
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stephen583

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Do you remember the scene in the Hollywood movie the "Omen" where Satan incarnate as a human child is nearly dispatched by stabbing him with iron daggers ?

Did you know that particular form of exorcism is a Buddhist not Christian ritual ? Impaling a corpse with iron daggers was practiced by Buddhists around 800 A.D. to keep the spirits of the dead from returning to a body and reanimating it. Go ahead and "Google" it if you don't believe it.

Lesson here. Don't believe everything you see in a Hollywood horror movie about the antichrist has anything whatsoever to do with Christian theology. Lol.

For dramatic purposes, Hollywood can be very creative when it comes to portraying things in the cinema.
 
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Douggg

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There is not a single shred of biblical evidence the term "beast" and Satan are one in the same. They are entirely separate and different entities. he Nowhere is the term "beast" used as one of the many names for the Devil. There is however irrefutable biblical evidence which proves the Devil, the beast and the false prophet are completely seperate individuals.
Hi Stephen, spelling tip, because I used to make the same mistake. "seperate" is correctly spelled as separate. "a " instead of "e". The way I remember how to correctly spell separate is to think of "apart". I read the tip from some online writing site - I forgot where. :)
 
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stephen583

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1John2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Also notice the term "antichrist" is used here in the plural sense. It says many antichrists have already come into the world. Why would that be any different now ?

Don't get me wrong, I believe there is a principle (human)antichrist figure referred to as the "Abomination of Desolation" in Matthew 24 and variously throughout the prophecies of Daniel.. but that doesn't preclude the possibility there will also be other numerous antichrist figures at the Time of the End just as 1 John 2:18 indicates.
 
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stephen583

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Hi Stephen, spelling tip, because I used to make the same mistake. "seperate" is correctly spelled as separate. "a " instead of "e". The way I remember how to correctly spell separate is to think of "apart". I read the tip from some online writing site - I forgot where. :)

Did you know the word "ain't" is the Queen's English and is still used by the gentry of English society today. Most people in America erroneously think the word is a form of ignorant Southern "slang".. Lol.
 
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Douggg

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Did you know the word "ain't" is the Queen's English and is still used by the gentry of English society today. Most people in America erroneously think the word is a form of ignorant Southern "slang".. Lol.
Well, I live in the South, and that ain't necessarily true..... ^_^^_^^_^
 
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LastSeven

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Nope, never said that... you perhaps have heard of the multiple fulfilling of a prophesy theory?

:) I haven't heard that one for a while. Brings back some memories. Those old theories without evidence. Super convenient to help support an argument that's otherwise not supported.
 
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parousia70

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:) I haven't heard that one for a while. Brings back some memories. Those old theories without evidence. Super convenient to help support an argument that's otherwise not supported.

Indeed.
Multiple fulfillment is an oxymoron.

Prophesy is either unfulfilled, or fulfilled.

I believe our friend may be referencing type/shadow vs. fulfillment/completion.

While the apostles understood how OT types and shadows pointed to NT fulfillments, they did not in turn teach that NT fulfillments were types and shadows of some future, greater fulfillments.

Do we await another Virgin Birth, another Crucifixion? another 3rd day rising out of the tomb? Do we await some future, greater sacrifice of Christ?

No, for Christ is not the shadow but the object itself. (Col 2:16-17)
 
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parousia70

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The idea of a Mr. Antichrist world ruler dude is not from the bible, but from man made tradition. The bible's teaching on antichrist is very simple, and St. John lists the only passages anywhere in scripture on the matter. Everything the bible has to say about "antichrist" can be found as follows:

2 Jn 1:7
1 Jn 2:18-19
1 Jn 4:1-3
1 Jn 2:22-23

Thats it.

When we closely analyze St. John's comprehensive teaching on the matter we arrive at the following:

(1) Antichrist is one heresy of many adherents (2 Jn 1:7; 1 Jn 2:18)

(2) Antichrists were once members of the true apostolic Church, but left to embrace a very particular heresy (1 Jn 2:19; 1Jn 4:1)

(3) The heresy embraced by antichrists denies that the incarnation of Christ was one in real human form or flesh (2 Jn 1:7; 1Jn 4:2-3)

(4) The antichrist heretics proclaim one can have relations with Jehovah without needing Christ (1 Jn 2:22-23 - cf. Jn 15:23-24)

(5) The prophesied antichrists manifested in St. John's latter ministry years, proving to him that the final hour of the last days had come upon Him and his flocks (1 Jn 2:18-19).


There we have it. That's everything the bible teaches on antichrist. It is a solid, unified, and comprehensive teaching on the subject. The bible says nothing else on the matter.

People err by adding in The Beast, Daniel's Imperial Kings, or the Man of Sin of 2 Thess 2, but these various men have not one thing at all to do with "antichrist," which was a 1st century Church heresy of the proto-gnostic beliefs concerning the incarnation.

And of course, Revelation for sure says not a thing about "antichrist."
 
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