Another once fun children's comic book ruined

[rusmeister]

Ok, I see. I knew gay people existed, I just didn't think much of it, I obviously knew that marriage was between a "mommy" and "daddy" because God blessed married couples with children. I obviously wasn't aware of how humans were conceived via sexual reproduction until 5th grade, as my parents see...sex as taboo almost.....BUT that's a different topic......

I guess I was rather innocent as a child.

Sure. Ignore Rus. (Maybe unintentionally)
No, "gay people" do NOT exist. There IS no such thing.

There are people who have broken sexual passions. We are ALL broken somehow. And they. Are. Not. "Gay". It is REALLY REALLY important to get that. That the language used by the modern world is a lie, from the father of lies. Even on the surface, it is clearly an evil euphemism coined by enemies of the Church, faith, and morality in order to achieve social approval of sexual perversion. Is that not obvious to anyone who thinks about it for a few seconds? Is it really so hard to see?

The use of wrong words to describe a thing has a real impact and does matter. Euphemisms are a refusal of people to say what they mean.
The purpose of these evil euphemisms is to introduce and propagate moral evils among a people. That is, us.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I don't see a problem with the comics of the links you provided. The first one with the story about Archie being accused of robbing Betty's innocence...that's toward the end of the story. When it explained that his car went into the lake when he was driving Betty around and they took refuge in a motel, and the parents are acting like regular parents of a teenager, there's nothing wrong there. The point being, nothing happened between them. The only thing ever sexual in the Archie comics that is shown is regular puckered kisses. That may have changed after the mid to late '80s and onward, but the ones we had were clean. No sleeping around, no make out sessions other than kisses and hugs.

As far as the one with Moose...Moose was a stereotypical "dumb jock," but very sweet and innocent. He never knew his own strength. That is what is happening in that pic. He doesn't realize he's practically breaking Archie's arm.

The third about Veronica and her guitar. There's always been a deal about Veronica being beautiful and Betty being pretty, the girl next door, tomboy. Veronica was the vain one who used her looks and money to get boyfriends. She was also pretty snobby. Nothing surprising there. There was a good message, though. That the nice girl was the one that had natural beauty, not snobby, didn't care about looks, and treated people nicely.

I can understand where you're coming from with the dynamic on the first comic - there was awareness clearly on the issues happening in the day (sleeping around) and thus Betty's dad in a paternal rage was illustrative of how parents were not ignorant. The same goes with Moose.

Nonetheless, it was not the limit of how far things can go - and with the ways that ogling of girls occurred frequently within the comics, that's something that's hard to ignore. One of the main pictures that come to mind is in an attachment with this post (from the second link, I believe) - the main issue being that kids/teens understood the dynamic of lusting after others......the whistling and calling out....all of that was akin to gateways to the hard-core issues that come with sexual immorality later on. That's exactly what I witnessed in middle-school when guys would see nothing wrong with their eyes leering over girls since they felt they weren't hurting anyone. But no one is a piece of meat to be ogled over.

Archie did this number of times as well as other things - and for more images on the matter that are much more to the point, I would suggest going here for more. For some examples:

It really shocked me seeing how wild Archie Comics were in reality. The focus on drooling/leering over girls never seemed innocent. And the focus of kissing or the ways girls were reacted to is not something I'd want my kids to be exposed to since so much has been done in the name of recreational kissing - all of that leading to a lot of things that get people messed up. One comic coming immediately to mind (from 80 Page Giant: Archie Metaphors: Kissing = Sex. ):

The man can't sleep because he could not get a good-night kiss - and thus, finds it right for him to kiss another girl so he could satisfy his physical needs - that's not cool in any kind of way. Growing up, we were taught against that kind of action since girls were worth respecting enough not to cross physical boundaries to satisfy ourselves - even to the point of saying you don't kiss till you are married since it's precious. I hear very often people saying they wish they had not been as physically intimate before they got married but I have never heard of a Christian couple say they wish they had made out more. For waiting shows a loving respect that can only strengthen a marriage later on.

And I can see why others in that time saw it just as intensive as anyone messing around when it came to the issue of kissing being a metaphor for sex. Kissing your girlfriend/boyfriend for 5 minutes while on a date is part like it's normal is part of the sexualized culture we live in - We already have past Orthodox who have given penances for kissing (and playing footsie, and all sorts of other things). Some have advocated that French kissing might be way too big a temptation, or any other kisses while alone might be a temptation, etc. Seeing how many knew they were on the exit ramp unto the highway of intimacy/sexual intercourse when they tried to make light of kissing, I feel cautious whenever I see it demonstrated within comics.


Obviously, if one allows the passions to take control, kissing can go too far. I know how kissing can be a greeting between neighbors and friends (of the same or opposite sex) - but it is a very sacred thing. Between dating couples, it has been connected with make-out sessions and seen as harmless since others don't tend to view it within the context of sex. And if kissing is seen by some as an inherently sexual act that must be saved for marriage, it seems understandable since it is a reaction to our oversexualized culture. In the 60s era, kissing was never seen to be a light matter - and if we kiss others today, that's no small issue when it's casual.

B Metropolitan Philaret Voznesensky (Modesty and Will ) shared this on the issue:

History is filled with examples of nations which perished from the spread of depravity; The Lord turned Sodom and Gomorrah. Babylon fell. The Roman Empire perished. The free West could be subjected to this same corruption... What do we see in the life which surrounds us? Indecency and shamelessness in clothing; shameless kissing and embracing on the streets and in public places; shameless advertisements, filthy inappropriate contentographic literature... All of this dissoluteness and perversion pours into life in an immense wave. Truly, there is no less shamelessness now, if not more, than in pagan times when the Holy Apostles and their successors had to exhort Christians with especial zeal in the observance of modesty."​

 

[Dorothea]

I can understand where you're coming from with the dynamic on the first comic - there was awareness clearly on the issues happening in the day (sleeping around) and thus Betty's dad in a paternal rage was illustrative of how parents were not ignorant. The same goes with Moose.

Nonetheless, it was not the limit of how far things can go - and with the ways that ogling of girls occurred frequently within the comics, that's something that's hard to ignore. One of the main pictures that come to mind is in an attachment with this post - the main issue being that kids/teens understood the dynamic of lusting after others......the whistling and calling out....all of that was akin to gateways to the hard-core issues that come with sexual immorality later on. That's exactly what I witnessed in middle-school when guys would see nothing wrong with their eyes leering over girls since they felt they weren't hurting anyone. But no one is a piece of meat to be ogled over.

Archie did this number of times as well as other things - and for more images on the matter that are much more to the point, I would suggest going here for more.

It really shocked me seeing how wild Archie Comics were in reality. The focus on kissing or the ways girls were reacted to is not something I'd want my kids to be exposed to since so much has been done in the name of recreational kissing - all of that leading to a lot of things that get people messed up. One comic coming immediately to mind (from 80 Page Giant: Archie Metaphors: Kissing = Sex. ):


The man can't sleep because he could not get a good-night kiss - and thus, finds it right for him to kiss another girl so he could satisfy his physical needs - that's not cool in any kind of way. And I can see why others in that time saw it just as intensive as anyone messing around when it came to the issue of kissing being a metaphor for sex.

TBH, I didn't see any messages like that when I was a kid reading those comics. I didn't read anything into any of it. Call me naive, but I don't think those comics were that bad. I also didn't grow up in a Christian setting with going to church regularly. I grew up in mostly a secular life with strict rights and wrongs given with no religious backing. To me, when I was a kid, it was simply he wanted a good night kiss.

After all, the ogling at women has been in movies from the 20's on up. The difference is, at least for me, at what point does that go? And in the Archies comics, it went as far as an innocent date with a good night kiss or something along those lines.

 

[actionsub]

Most kids in the U.S. don't read comics. They play videogames 24/7. I guess in this case that's a good thing? LOL...somebody will get wise to it soon and they'll start making all the videogames full of LGBT's and only women. I can see it all now--gay Mortal Kombat, Transgender Grand Theft Auto,
Call of Duty: Glitz, Glam, Out and Proud Assault, Super Mario Rainbows and Spandex 2014, Guitar Hero: San Francisco Castro District Special Edition!

And that's why the change. The target audience for comics has become 18-24+ age men instead of the children to whom they were originally marketed.

Remember when they actually HAD a censorship agency for comics because kids?

 

[actionsub]

I think the first place I remember seeing it play a major part was on Chicago Hope. That was around 2001 iirc. Can't remember if there was much else near that time. But soon after I think it became common in sitcoms, but I wasn't watching much tv in those days.

Probably the first show to have an openly-out non-hetero man was "Soap", in which Billy Crystal played Jodie Dallas. This premiered around 1977 on ABC. That was the crack in the dam, so to speak, and LGBT characters began to be more and more prevalent.

 

[Dorothea]

TBH, I didn't see any messages like that when I was a kid reading those comics. I didn't read anything into any of it. Call me naive, but I don't think those comics were that bad. I also didn't grow up in a Christian setting with going to church regularly. I grew up in mostly a secular life with strict rights and wrongs given with no religious backing. To me, when I was a kid, it was simply he wanted a good night kiss.

After all, the ogling at women has been in movies from the 20's on up. The difference is, at least for me, at what point does that go? And in the Archies comics, it went as far as an innocent date with a good night kiss or something along those lines.

And I just wanted to add that I'm sure you're right, G. I only have my personal childhood experience of reading them and what that meant to me to go by, and it doesn't really send a good message. I don't want to feel I am totally defending the comic. So, I just wanted to set that straight.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

TBH, I didn't see any messages like that when I was a kid reading those comics. I didn't read anything into any of it. Call me naive, but I don't think those comics were that bad. I also didn't grow up in a Christian setting with going to church regularly. I grew up in mostly a secular life with strict rights and wrongs given with no religious backing. To me, when I was a kid, it was simply he wanted a good night kiss.

After all, the ogling at women has been in movies from the 20's on up. The difference is, at least for me, at what point does that go? And in the Archies comics, it went as far as an innocent date with a good night kiss or something along those lines.

Culture can make a difference - and no, I don't think you're naive at all. Having a secular background, some things would not have the same connotation was it'd be with others.

Most of the people I grew up with who ended up pregnant all seemed to think at some point that kissing was a casual thing....kissing to me, outside of greeting as the Church notes it, is really a matter of foreplay. It's part of
the reason why (if rampant kissing's a focus) I've told teens (as a Youth Worker) it's not a small issue - even if it seems innocent. Growing up in the Religious Right (i.e. James Dobson/Focus on the Family and Boundless), I saw a lot of people that others labeled as "too conservative" for their views - but a lot of their suggestions seemed to make A LOT of sense when it seemed others were easily crossing into things they couldn't bounce back from. Books like "Every Man's Battle" were studied, which focused a lot on not looking on girls wrongly.

We were taught how Matthew 5:27-29 was nothing to play with - that if we were looking at girls to lust after them, it was a bad as adultery since that was someone else's wife and we were stealing things from them that did not belong to us.

And thus, whenever I came across Archie as a youth, I didn't really see it as an innocent thing for him to go from girl to girl just for kissing. I had friends (when I was in Public School) who'd do those kinds of things - and I was tempted as well. But it always seemed cheap to do so.

Kissing seemed to always be an issue in high school that others would make fun of me on since I didn't take it lightly and wanted to be pure - but seeing where many ended up, I can't say I have any regrets. People don't realize how extended kissing (for the girls) always prepares them to receive a guy sexually - and that was a big deal back in the day.

After all, the ogling at women has been in movies from the 20's on up. The difference is, at least for me, at what point does that go?

For me, the ogling dynamic seems to be in the same line as going to the Men's/Gentleman's Clubs where you sat and watched women dance naked or strip. The same is the case for women who dressed in revealing clothing and men would feast their eyes on them - it was part of the way the Adult Entertainment industry was developed in the 1920s and on. And even though it was allowed in the 60s/70s in movies or comics, it still was based on a lot of bad mentalities. If I was whistling at girls with my friends while viewing them from afar, I know I'd probably be slapped by the girl - unless she was the kind of girl that was already a loose type of gal.

A lot of folks from the 60s/70s often would say seeing extensive kissing on screen was highly sexual - but the standards were more intensive than they are today. It's why the scene of Han Solo and Princess Leia (when they first kissed in "The Empire Strikes Back") was considered by many to be an Adult scene - it was just that intense.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I only have my personal childhood experience of reading them and what that meant to me to go by, and it doesn't really send a good message. I don't want to feel I am totally defending the comic. So, I just wanted to set that straight.

It's all good - I don't think anyone here is not going off their childhood IN one way or another. I was speaking from the same perspective. Everyone responds and reacts differently to things

 

[Dorothea]

Culture can make a difference - and no, I don't think you're naive at all. Having a secular background, some things would not have the same connotation was it'd be with others.

Most of the people I grew up with who ended up pregnant all seemed to think at some point that kissing was a casual thing....kissing to me, outside of greeting as the Church notes it, is really a matter of foreplay. It's part of
the reason why (if rampant kissing's a focus) I've told teens (as a Youth Worker) it's not a small issue - even if it seems innocent. Growing up in the Religious Right (i.e. James Dobson/Focus on the Family and Boundless), I saw a lot of people that others labeled as "too conservative" for their views - but a lot of their suggestions seemed to make A LOT of sense when it seemed others were easily crossing into things they couldn't bounce back from. Books like "Every Man's Battle" were studied, which focused a lot on not looking on girls wrongly.

We were taught how Matthew 5:27-29 was nothing to play with - that if we were looking at girls to lust after them, it was a bad as adultery since that was someone else's wife and we were stealing things from them that did not belong to us.

Ah, I can see why you would feel that way having that Christian background and knowledge of what the Scriptures said. My family didn't own a bible, and we never read either the OT or the NT, growing up. Never heard anything about Christ's teachings. Like I've said. I didn't know about the Holy Spirit until my early to mid 20's, which means, I didn't know about the Trinity. So, for me, I thought all of that was "normal" behavior that Archie and Reggie and Betty and Veronica as teens were like.

And thus, whenever I came across Archie as a youth, I didn't really see it as an innocent thing for him to go from girl to girl just for kissing. I had friends (when I was in Public School) who'd do those kinds of things - and I was tempted as well. But it always seemed cheap to do so.

That's very admirable.

Kissing seemed to always be an issue in high school that others would make fun of me on since I didn't take it lightly and wanted to be pure - but seeing where many ended up, I can't say I have any regrets. People don't realize how extended kissing (for the girls) always prepares them to receive a guy sexually - and that was a big deal back in the day.

Huh. Didn't know that. I have never correlated the two. Wow. It's interesting to see different upbringings bring about different perspectives.

For me, the ogling dynamic seems to be in the same line as going to the Men's/Gentleman's Clubs where you sat and watched women dance naked or strip. The same is the case for women who dressed in revealing clothing and men would feast their eyes on them - it was part of the way the Adult Entertainment industry was developed in the 1920s and on. And even though it was allowed in the 60s/70s in movies or comics, it still was based on a lot of bad mentalities. If I was whistling at girls with my friends while viewing them from afar, I know I'd probably be slapped by the girl - unless she was the kind of girl that was already a loose type of gal.

Oh my! I'd never thought about that before! I can see though, how that can be perceived. I mean, there is a feeling of that or had been with construction workers at their site ogling and whistling at girls walking by. I always thought that was gross and slimy.

A lot of folks from the 60s/70s often would say seeing extensive kissing on screen was highly sexual - but the standards were more intensive than they are today. It's why the scene of Han Solo and Princess Leia (when they first kissed in "The Empire Strikes Back") was considered by many to be an Adult scene - it was just that intense.

Really?! I thought their kiss was quite clean! It was the kisses in the soap operas starting, iirc, in the '80s, where they're practically devouring each other's faces that I couldn't stand and still don't like.

btw, I also grew up a military kid on military bases. That environment alone is quite different.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

We were up in Fresno today, Veronica had her first confession and I needed to go to confession, too, so we had an appointment with Father after going to the big Fresno Chaffee Zoo. We then went to the comic book shop on Shaw. It's a pretty good-sized store. I was just thinking the whole time we were there how incredible it is that comics are so inaccessible for kids now. When I was a kid, you could pretty much look at any comic in the entire shop, period. Now they're rated like video games. Heck, half the comics that "seemed" safe made me do a double-take.

It ticks me off because comics is a bit of a tradition in my family. My kids LOVE Marvel and DC, adore the Justice League, Avengers, Batman, Iron Man, etc. They're in love with the comics because of me I think. And it saddens me to know that these comics are all being conquered by the PC LGBT Nazis and sinful lunatics of this age. I know comics were never particularly "religious," but they were nasty and vile or sinful necessarily either. Now I feel like it's just one more thing that is dying that we have to look to the past for....

Most of these comics have pseudo-inappropriate content or sound like a Barack Obama PSA in spandex....

I couldn't believe it when I actually SAW Barack Obama comics at the shop a few months back! God help us! :o

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It WAS quite clean, innocent, and not one person I've ever met thought otherwise. It was not adult or over the top in the least. Tastefully done. Most kids (myself included) at the time thought Leia and Han's budding romance was cute, hilarious, and when he got dunked into the carbon-freezing system I got teary eyed because she shouted "I love you!" to which Han replied, "I know..." I thought everyone found the whole thing pretty innocent and cool.

Nowdays the kissing in these movies is tongue-wrestling. Those scenes in Star Wars were Bambi level...

Really?! I thought their kiss was quite clean! It was the kisses in the soap operas starting, iirc, in the '80s, where they're practically devouring each other's faces that I couldn't stand and still don't like.

btw, I also grew up a military kid on military bases. That environment alone is quite different.

 

[~Anastasia~]

We were up in Fresno today, Veronica had her first confession and I needed to go to confession, too, so we had an appointment with Father after going to the big Fresno Chaffee Zoo. We then went to the comic book shop on Shaw. It's a pretty good-sized store. I was just thinking the whole time we were there how incredible it is that comics are so inaccessible for kids now. When I was a kid, you could pretty much look at any comic in the entire shop, period. Now they're rated like video games. Heck, half the comics that "seemed" safe made me do a double-take.

It ticks me off because comics is a bit of a tradition in my family. My kids LOVE Marvel and DC, adore the Justice League, Avengers, Batman, Iron Man, etc. They're in love with the comics because of me I think. And it saddens me to know that these comics are all being conquered by the PC LGBT Nazis and sinful lunatics of this age. I know comics were never particularly "religious," but they were nasty and vile or sinful necessarily either. Now I feel like it's just one more thing that is dying that we have to look to the past for....

Most of these comics have pseudo-inappropriate content or sound like a Barack Obama PSA in spandex....

I couldn't believe it when I actually SAW Barack Obama comics at the shop a few months back! God help us! :o

Maybe my husband needs to consider a different outlet for selling his comic book collection. I haven't looked at them, but it sounds like the chances are they are "cleaner" than what's available today.

Reminds me of how when my daughter was young, I had to look for clothing that didn't try to make her look like a little adult. I often bought generation-past consignment dresses for her because they were decent, and what hung on the racks in wal-mart wasn't.

 

[Dorothea]

I couldn't believe it when I actually SAW Barack Obama comics at the shop a few months back! God help us! :o

Are you serious?! There are Obama comics? Wow. I wonder what the stories are about in there. Seem pretty limited, but maybe because I'm not thinking of all the political issues that could be stories.

 

[Dorothea]

It WAS quite clean, innocent, and not one person I've ever met thought otherwise. It was not adult or over the top in the least. Tastefully done. Most kids (myself included) at the time thought Leia and Han's budding romance was cute, hilarious, and when he got dunked into the carbon-freezing system I got teary eyed because she shouted "I love you!" to which Han replied, "I know..." I thought everyone found the whole thing pretty innocent and cool.

Nowdays the kissing in these movies is tongue-wrestling. Those scenes in Star Wars were Bambi level...

Love your descriptions. Yes, I totally agree.

 

[Dorothea]

Reminds me of how when my daughter was young, I had to look for clothing that didn't try to make her look like a little adult. I often bought generation-past consignment dresses for her because they were decent, and what hung on the racks in wal-mart wasn't.

That's a nice way of describing some of the female children's clothes out there.

 

[ArmyMatt]

It's why the scene of Han Solo and Princess Leia (when they first kissed in "The Empire Strikes Back") was considered by many to be an Adult scene - it was just that intense.

there were more intense make out scenes long before that one. the only thing that was different between that scene and any number of Jimmy Stewert/John Wayne/Cary Grant etc scenes is the image I have of oblivious C-3PO ruining the moment and not getting Han's sarcasm. which still has me cracking up when I see it.

 

[~Anastasia~]

That's a nice way of describing some of the female children's clothes out there.

Yes I was trying to be nice. There are other less-nice (and really more descriptive) words that could be used, but I figured everyone would know what I meant.

Really though, it's terribly sad to me when we try to do that to children. My daughter even noticed, and came up with an incredibly cute (to me) invented word to describe the difference. But it did not escape her notice at about 6 years old that the clothing tried to make her appear to be developed as a woman.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Really?! I thought their kiss was quite clean! It was the kisses in the soap operas starting, iirc, in the '80s, where they're practically devouring each other's faces that I couldn't stand and still don't like.

btw, I also grew up a military kid on military bases. That environment alone is quite different.

To be clear, yeah - I thought the kiss was fine....but in all realness, hiding away from others and having to steal a passionate kiss even though you're not formally in a relationship. ...I don't know how well that'd fly for believers

This is where I saw others who felt the kiss was rather hard-core (from a documentary I once saw on Vh1 at home....starting at 5:14-6:12 ).

When 'Star Wars' Ruled the World (part 3) - YouTube​

The kisses in Soap Operas were truly more wild than the Empire Strikes Back - but the context will always make a difference for others.

I recall, by the way, where you've mentioned you grew up on military bases - you've shared that before, including when your father passed away.

 

[Dorothea]

To be clear, yeah - I thought the kiss was fine....but in all realness, hiding away from others and having to steal a passionate kiss even though you're not formally in a relationship. ...I don't know how well that'd fly for believers

I think that's normal. Most people don't want people watching them kiss. I certainly don't! I really don't like PDA's of any kind other than pecks on the lips, simple hug, and holding hands. lol

This is where I saw others who felt the kiss was rather hard-core (from a documentary I once saw on Vh1 at home....starting at 5:14-6:12 ).

When 'Star Wars' Ruled the World (part 3) - YouTube​

The kisses in Soap Operas were truly more wild than the Empire Strikes Back - but the context will always make a difference for others.

I recall, by the way, where you've mentioned you grew up on military bases - you've shared that before, including when your father passed away.

Thanks for sharing the video. LOL That was funny. Yeah, they exaggerated in their describing the kiss and everything. That's typical VH1 talk, TBH.

 

[Dorothea]

Yes I was trying to be nice. There are other less-nice (and really more descriptive) words that could be used, but I figured everyone would know what I meant.

Really though, it's terribly sad to me when we try to do that to children. My daughter even noticed, and came up with an incredibly cute (to me) invented word to describe the difference. But it did not escape her notice at about 6 years old that the clothing tried to make her appear to be developed as a woman.

Yes, it's really sick in a way, if you ask me.