Another Fossil Transitional Species that shouldn't exist ... Meet Pappochelys

[Split Rock]

Pappochelys is a fossil species recently discovered from the Middle Triassic of Germany. It has features intermediate between the stem-turtle Odontochelys from the Late Triassic and Eunotosaurus, a reptile from the Middle Permian. Eunotosaurus had a turtle-like figure and wide, flat ribs, while Odontochelys had a fully developed body plate. Pappochelys appears to be the link between the two species, as it possesses broad and sturdy ribs and the beginnings of a bony plate on its underside.
http://www.pulseheadlines.com/newly-discovered-fossil-explains-evolution-turtles-shell/2347/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pappochelys

More and more of these "gaps" keep getting filled every year, it seems....hmmmmm...

 

[lasthero]

I think it's also important to note that Odontochelys had teeth, which is an odd thing for a turtle to have. Or at least, it would be if turtles didn't evolve from reptiles with teeth.

 

[Split Rock]

I think it's also important to note that Odontochelys had teeth, which is an odd thing for a turtle to have. Or at least, it would be if turtles didn't evolve from reptiles with teeth.

Much like early birds, which in this case evolved from therapod dinosaurs that also had teeth.

 

[AV1611VET]

More and more of these "gaps" keep getting filled every year, it seems....hmmmmm...

Gaps so big you can stick anything in them.

Like putting a grain of dust inside a 55-gallon barrel.

For the record, let's see evolution predict finding these things BEFORE finding these things.

Not just find something, call it something, then twenty years later realize it was mislabeled.

But actually predict it, and where it should be residing in the earth.

I mean, if this fossil record is supposed to be so complete & accurate and all, it seems to me they could do something with it, rather than use it to play connect-the-dots.

 

[SteveB28]

For the record, let's see evolution predict finding these things BEFORE finding these things.

Not just find something, call it something, then twenty years later realize it was mislabeled.

But actually predict it, and where it should be residing in the earth.

I understand it's name is Tiktaalik roseae.

 

[HitchSlap]

Gaps so big you can stick anything in them.

Like putting a grain of dust inside a 55-gallon barrel.

For the record, let's see evolution predict finding these things BEFORE finding these things.

Not just find something, call it something, then twenty years later realize it was mislabeled.

But actually predict it, and where it should be residing in the earth.

I mean, if this fossil record is supposed to be so complete & accurate and all, it seems to me they could do something with it, rather than use it to play connect-the-dots.

Wow, it's like you just joined CF yesterday.

Dr. Shubin wrote "Your Inner Fish," in it, he details how he predicted what and where you would find a tetrapod. Then he did.

You're welcome.

 

[AV1611VET]

Wow, it's like you just joined CF yesterday.

Dr. Shubin wrote "Your Inner Fish," in it, he details how he predicted what and where you would find a tetrapod. Then he did.

You're welcome.

Dear me.

Dr. Shubin predicted and found a Tiktaalik.

Way to go, Dr.!

Now let's turn up the heat a little.

What should someone find buried 1000 feet below a parcel of land one acre in size, 1000 feet, 135° from the Taj Mahal?

 

[Split Rock]

Dear me.

Dr. Shubin predicted and found a Tiktaalik.

Way to go, Dr.!

Now let's turn up the heat a little.

What should someone find buried 1000 feet below a parcel of land one acre in size, 1000 feet, 135° from the Taj Mahal?

Rocks
Do I win?

 

[HitchSlap]

Dear me.

Dr. Shubin predicted and found a Tiktaalik.

Way to go, Dr.!

Now let's turn up the heat a little.

What should someone find buried 1000 feet below a parcel of land one acre in size, 1000 feet, 135° from the Taj Mahal?

I give up. What?

 

[crjmurray]

Pappochelys is a fossil species recently discovered from the Middle Triassic of Germany. It has features intermediate between the stem-turtle Odontochelys from the Late Triassic and Eunotosaurus, a reptile from the Middle Permian. Eunotosaurus had a turtle-like figure and wide, flat ribs, while Odontochelys had a fully developed body plate. Pappochelys appears to be the link between the two species, as it possesses broad and sturdy ribs and the beginnings of a bony plate on its underside.
http://www.pulseheadlines.com/newly-discovered-fossil-explains-evolution-turtles-shell/2347/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pappochelys

More and more of these "gaps" keep getting filled every year, it seems....hmmmmm...

So this Papadopoulos Monster or whatever is some sort of German turtle? And this is supposed to prove that EVILution is true? Not hardly!!!!

 

[SteveB28]

Dear me.

Dr. Shubin predicted and found a Tiktaalik.

Way to go, Dr.!

Now let's turn up the heat a little.

What should someone find buried 1000 feet below a parcel of land one acre in size, 1000 feet, 135° from the Taj Mahal?

I believe you folk call this 'moving the goalposts'.

You asked specifically for an example of a prediction being made for the discovery of a fossilised species, using evolutionary biology, before that discovery was made.

A perfect example has been provided.

Do you behave in an adult manner? Do you accept that your cynicism has been bested and retire gracefully?

No. Instead, we have the childish response akin to " Well, I bet my dad could beat your dad!"

 

[SteveB28]

By the way, thank you to Split Rock for introducing that article. I have a great grandson who is absolutely consumed by all things turtle and tortoise - he will now regale me with information about this find for weeks to come!

 

[AV1611VET]

I believe you folk call this 'moving the goalposts'.

QV please:

Tiktaalik's Place in the Fossil Record: A Confirmed Failed Prediction of Evolution

SOURCE

 

[HitchSlap]

QV please:SOURCE

I'm assuming this is a creationist site? If so, they're always wrong. All they have are bible degrees, and even then you guys can't agree on "doctrine,"

 

[crjmurray]

I'm assuming this is a creationist site? If so, they're always wrong. All they have are bible degrees, and even then you guys can't agree on "doctrine,"

SURVEY SAYS!!!!


Yeah it's a creationist site....

 

[[serious]]

Gaps so big you can stick anything in them.

Like putting a grain of dust inside a 55-gallon barrel.

For the record, let's see evolution predict finding these things BEFORE finding these things.

Not just find something, call it something, then twenty years later realize it was mislabeled.

But actually predict it, and where it should be residing in the earth.

I mean, if this fossil record is supposed to be so complete & accurate and all, it seems to me they could do something with it, rather than use it to play connect-the-dots.

I'm reminded of expecting a whale transitional with a nostril in it's forehead. And then finding it. In the expected place of the geological column.

But go ahead and move the goal posts if you'd like, evolution has a REALLY good kicker so it won't really matter.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I'm reminded of expecting a whale transitional with a nostril in it's forehead. And then finding it. In the expected place of the geological column.

But go ahead and move the goal posts if you'd like, evolution has a REALLY good kicker so it won't really matter.

Lol, that's one of the most desperate grabs I've seen yet. What nostril?

I'd like someone to point out this nostril for me that is in the expected location??????

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Pappochelys is a fossil species recently discovered from the Middle Triassic of Germany. It has features intermediate between the stem-turtle Odontochelys from the Late Triassic and Eunotosaurus, a reptile from the Middle Permian. Eunotosaurus had a turtle-like figure and wide, flat ribs, while Odontochelys had a fully developed body plate. Pappochelys appears to be the link between the two species, as it possesses broad and sturdy ribs and the beginnings of a bony plate on its underside.
http://www.pulseheadlines.com/newly-discovered-fossil-explains-evolution-turtles-shell/2347/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pappochelys

More and more of these "gaps" keep getting filled every year, it seems....hmmmmm...

Just a breed of lizard. When will you people accept the real world observations?

But this we are assured - is an actual representation from this. I'd say it's about anything you want it to be and is grasping at straws with a smashed up something, and this is the best specimen. I do agree with one thing. More and more the claims keep getting wilder year by year in the attempt to fill gaps that never existed except in the imagination. Just as no gaps exist between the Husky and Mastiff and the Chinook, nor transitional's except the few during the interbreeding process between other breeds before the Chinook likewise became set. All of which looked morphological similar to the parents and the offspring. All of which were different breeds of the same species - not incorrectly classified as in the fossil record as different species because none exist in real life to observe.

 

[whois]

Pappochelys is a fossil species recently discovered from the Middle Triassic of Germany. It has features intermediate between the stem-turtle Odontochelys from the Late Triassic and Eunotosaurus, a reptile from the Middle Permian. Eunotosaurus had a turtle-like figure and wide, flat ribs, while Odontochelys had a fully developed body plate. Pappochelys appears to be the link between the two species, as it possesses broad and sturdy ribs and the beginnings of a bony plate on its underside.
http://www.pulseheadlines.com/newly-discovered-fossil-explains-evolution-turtles-shell/2347/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pappochelys

More and more of these "gaps" keep getting filled every year, it seems....hmmmmm...

i have a few questions about this.
couldn't this be just another line of animal with no relation at all to the others?
aren't human ribs sort of flat with a sternum that could be seen as the "beginnings" of the under part of a turtle?
what would cause this rib cage to grow outside the body?

don't forget that the modern age of genomics is upon us and can easily answer such questions.
i believe that science now has the tools to answer questions like this.

i believe koonin and noble are right, we must get away from this "small gradual change" bit that has pervaded evolution since its inception.

does change happen?
sure it does, but small gradual change is not responsible for macroevolution.

 

[crjmurray]

i have a few questions about this.
couldn't this be just another line of animal with no relation at all to the others?
aren't human ribs sort of flat with a sternum that could be seen as the "beginnings" of the under part of a turtle?
what would cause this rib cage to grow outside the body?

don't forget that the modern age of genomics is upon us and can easily answer such questions.
i believe that science now has the tools to answer questions like this.

i believe koonin and noble are right, we must get away from this "small gradual change" bit that has pervaded evolution since its inception.

does change happen?
sure it does, but small gradual change is not responsible for macroevolution.

What's the alternative?