Anglicans stole our stuff!!!! ??????

Theatreguy18

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so I was recently talking to a Anglican friend and I realized they too have a mass structure similar to ours and some pray the rosary I started thinking do they even have a right to these things as there not in union with Rome some even believe in the transubstantiation of the eucruist as we do but they can have a valid eucruist can they ? Since there not united with us y should they get our stuff I know the history of the Anglican Church but if there not with us are they against us ?
 

Reader Antonius

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so I was recently talking to a Anglican friend and I realized they too have a mass structure similar to ours and some pray the rosary I started thinking do they even have a right to these things as there not in union with Rome some even believe in the transubstantiation of the eucruist as we do but they can have a valid eucruist can they ? Since there not united with us y should they get our stuff I know the history of the Anglican Church but if there not with us are they against us ?

I'd say that it's a combination of "stealing" (in one sense, I guess) and "keeping" stuff from us. :)

Anglicanism today is a tricky thing, because Anglicanism hasn't always been the same. Early Anglicanism (as distinct from a schismatic, but Catholic, English Church) was NOT very similar to us. It adopted much of the trappings of Continental Protestantism and forbade the use of many Catholic theologies and practices. Later on, as time passed (especially in the 19th century), the Church of England started to adopt a lot of Catholic distinctives for a variety of reasons. Thus, some things that are "Catholic" about Anglicans were kept from the schism (such as episcopal polity, for example) but most other things are adoptions of recent centuries (much of what your friend probably refers to).

Robert Ian Williams, a convert from Anglicanism, wrote on this very subject in a way that really answers your question best. Also, in my home Diocese (at least before I joined the Order), there is a married priest who is a former Anglican minister. He wrote two excellent articles on explaining Anglicanism to Catholics. You'd probably enjoy reading them. The first article discusses some basics about Anglicanism for orthodox Catholics. The second article discusses the current situation of Anglicans (which is not good, actually).

Basically, here's the best way to approach Anglicanism:

The Anglicans are, at this stage in history, one of the closest Western Christian communities to the Catholic Church. They lack Holy Orders, and that is a severe impediment because it means they don't have sacraments except for baptism and matrimony; however, there are (by both keeping and adopting) elements of Catholic truth throughout the movement (especially in more traditional, "Anglo-Catholic" Anglicans) that impel towards the return to unity with the true Church (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 819). They are our brothers and sisters in an imperfect union (CCC 818) and we are called to help them find fully unity with the Catholic Church. One way to do that is to appeal to the Catholic things they still cherish.

As a matter of fact, there is a "use" (a variant) of the Roman Rite called the "Anglican Use." It is approved by Rome and consists of the Anglican liturgy (corrected of heretical stuff) celebrated by validly ordained priests. Many converts from Anglicanism join these parishes, which allow them to celebrate their Anglican heritage without being outside the Catholic Church. This was one of the ways that the Pope opened the door to letting Anglicans come home to Catholicism. :D

One-day, God-willing, the Anglican movement will renounce its errors of theology and practice and return home to the Catholic Church. On that day, the Blessed Virgin Mary will be most happy since England was called "Mary's Dowry." :) Until that time, we must work to dialogue with Anglicans of good-will (like your friend) and gently teach them the Catholic Faith and be witnesses of it with our own lives. Henry VIII's mistake was a very, very bad one...but not bad enough to stop God's grace!
:amen:
 
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Reader Antonius

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But do they have a valid eucruist

Unfortunately, no. The vast majority do not have a valid Eucharist because they no longer have valid Holy Orders. There may be some Anglican bishops who (through really confusing historical things in the 19th century involving wandering Eastern bishops) have valid Holy Orders...but there's no way to really be sure. And these Bishops would probably only be found in Great Britain anyway, not anywhere else.
 
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Reader Antonius

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What do u mean

Not to put words in his mouth, I think what he means is that if the Most Holy Rosary is something Anglicans are attracted to, we should be joyful rather than feel stolen from since that is another way that will help them come home to the Church. :)

I remember when I was a Baptist, I prayed my own version of the Most Holy Rosary from time to time. It wasn't the prayers Our Lady gave to Holy Father, St. Dominic, but it got me into the habit of using one; which made my conversion easier.

For a convert from Protestantism (especially a young and zealous one, like I was), it can be a little hard to accept non-Catholics using Catholic things; but, in the end, when we understand it as a way of the Holy Spirit to bring all things into unity with His Church, it makes sense. ;)
 
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Theatreguy18

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I mean what I said .

It seems odd to me that some Catholics can whinge about some Anglicans praying the rosary .
But surly u see where I'm coming from Our savior sent his mother to give us the Catholic Church the rosary not Anglicans to rosary was given to the Catholic Church they basically just stole it
 
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Theatreguy18

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Not to put words in his mouth, I think what he means is that if the Most Holy Rosary is something Anglicans are attracted to, we should be joyful rather than feel stolen from since that is another way that will help them come home to the Church. :)

I remember when I was a Baptist, I prayed my own version of the Most Holy Rosary from time to time. It wasn't the prayers Our Lady gave to Holy Father, St. Dominic, but it got me into the habit of using one; which made my conversion easier.

For a convert from Protestantism (especially a young and zealous one, like I was), it can be a little hard to accept non-Catholics using Catholic things; but, in the end, when we understand it as a way of the Holy Spirit to bring all things into unity with His Church, it makes sense. ;)
I'm a teen convert from the southern baptist church I love the baptist people my parents included and my best friend is Anglican but I too remember praying the rosary for the first time before I started my full conversation which I'm still working on so I get ur point
 
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You know Theatreguy - this may be hard to believe - but the Rosary is a prayer that was given to all who care to use and pray it, and this may surprise you even more - some Catholics don't say the Rosary.

Please calm down a little in your enthusiasm for all things Catholic. Conversion is something that takes a long time - in fact the rest of your life !
 
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Theatreguy18

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You know Theatreguy - this may be hard to believe - but the Rosary is a prayer that was given to all who care to use and pray it, and this may surprise you even more - some Catholics don't say the Rosary.

Please calm down a little in your enthusiasm for all things Catholic. Conversion is something that takes a long time - in fact the rest of your life !
I understand some Catholics don't pray the rosary but our lady said the rosary would crush error and Hercy so all Anglicans or Protestants that pray it should eventually became catholic
 
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Theatreguy18

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You know Theatreguy - this may be hard to believe - but the Rosary is a prayer that was given to all who care to use and pray it, and this may surprise you even more - some Catholics don't say the Rosary.

Please calm down a little in your enthusiasm for all things Catholic. Conversion is something that takes a long time - in fact the rest of your life !
And about my enthusiasm in going to quote mother Theresa a catholic is not what I am it's who I am
 
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ebia

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But surly u see where I'm coming from Our savior sent his mother to give us the Catholic Church the rosary not Anglicans to rosary was given to the Catholic Church they basically just stole it
You don't have it any more?
 
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WirSindBettler

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so I was recently talking to a Anglican friend and I realized they too have a mass structure similar to ours

No.

You have a mass structure similar to theirs. The Anglicans have been worshipping the same way they do today since 1534 [1549 if you consider the "Anglican" mass as developing the year Cranmer finished the first BCP]. Catholics, on the other hand, have been worshipping the "Anglican" way since 1965. Before that, it was Tridentine Latin Mass.

and some pray the rosary

Very few pray the Marian rosary. Most pray the Anglican.
 
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Colin

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Yes we have it but they basically took the whole thing and used it to mimick us

The Anglicans I know and have known who pray the rosary do it for the love they have for Jesus and Mary , not to mimic others .
 
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Theatreguy18

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No.

You have a mass structure similar to theirs. The Anglicans have been worshipping the same way they do today since 1534 [1549 if you consider the "Anglican" mass as developing the year Cranmer finished the first BCP]. Catholics, on the other hand, have been worshipping the "Anglican" way since 1965. Before that, it was Tridentine Latin Mass.



Very few pray the Marian rosary. Most pray the Anglican.
Don't compare our mass to there's we worship as the Holy Spirit directs we have the true body, blood soul and divinity of Christ in our Eucharist hey have nothing but bread and a cup of wine we are the one true church Christ established and there rosary still has our Hail Mary in it
 
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WirSindBettler

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Don't compare our mass to there's we worship as the Holy Spirit directs

So you're Quaker now?

we have the true body, blood soul and divinity of Christ in our Eucharist hey have nothing but bread and a cup of wine we are the one true church Christ established

You can't prove this, and I can't debate you here because it is a Catholic forum.

there rosary still has our Hail Mary in it

Actually it doesn't. The Anglican rosary repeats the following:

The Cross

In the Name of God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen.

The Invitatory
O God make speed to save me (us),
O Lord make haste to help me (us),
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: As it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen.

The Cruciforms
Holy God,
Holy and Mighty,
Holy Immortal One,
Have mercy upon me (us).

The Weeks
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God,
Have mercy on me, a sinner.

The Lord's Prayer
Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy Name,
thy kingdom come, thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
and the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever. Amen.

The Cross
I bless the Lord.
(Let us bless the Lord
Thanks be to God.)
 
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Theatreguy18

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The Holy Spirit lead Vatican 2 there for our mass is from the Lord himself Quakers idk but we have always held since the apostles that the church has the true presence of the body , blood soul and divinity of Christ y should it be different and uv been to a rosary service at a Anglican Church where they pray the Marian cough true rosary cough cough I've heard of the rosary ur speaking our but never seen it practiced ur obviously Protestant and from ur profile pic I gather ur lutheran
 
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