Andrews shuts down bake sale for LGBT homeless

[EastCoastRemnant]

its like they are just gay, its within them and they cant at least change it on their own.

Like someone that is 'born' with an anger/attitude problem, a lust issue, a compulsion to steal... are we to condone these sins because a person 'can't help themselves'?

Yes, there appears to be environmental factors at play here as well... eg: BPA and it's effect of an increase in estrogen production surely has had an effect upon a generation or two or men... BUT whatever the cause, whatever the individual 'pet' carnal nature we ALL have, the results are still sin and need Christs redemption and the Holy Spirits power to overcome.

 

[CaptainToad]

Like someone that is 'born' with an anger/attitude problem, a lust issue, a compulsion to steal... are we to condone these sins because a person 'can't help themselves'?

Yes, there appears to be environmental factors at play here as well... eg: BPA and it's effect of an increase in estrogen production surely has had an effect upon a generation or two or men... BUT whatever the cause, whatever the individual 'pet' carnal nature we ALL have, the results are still sin and need Christs redemption and the Holy Spirits power to overcome.

Based on own experiences with my own problems I can only agree with you. Some things might acquired, through ubringing or the environment, some with might be innate. Whatever the cause, its can be an ugly struggle and people might look for all kinds of explanations and justifications. In the end of course, it is God who will/or will not judge and it is He who can give the power/or path the way towards overcoming.

What I can say, however, is that there is a lot of hypocrisy going on, especially in churches. While I would never tell a LGBT person that its Gods will for them to fully live out their nature or that its not sin to practice certain acts, I would never openly condemn those people or discriminate them, a sin is a sin, you have to name a shovel when you see one, but this whole fundraiser thing? I dont think that this is the right way - or any way - to deal with it. Everyon needs help and we really shouldnt make a difference. Speaking of difference - I still dont understand why this whole fundraiser thing was especially aimed at helping LGBT youths, it sort of discriminates all others... its just weird.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I still dont understand why this whole fundraiser thing was especially aimed at helping LGBT youths, it sort of discriminates all others... its just weird.

It's an agenda to bring the morality issue to a head, imo. Then the religious power in America will blowback and demand that laws be enacted to legislate morality. We will see if I am right or not... if I am, Sunday laws a comin'

If you know what a hegelian dialectic is, you'll understand....

 

[Cute Tink]

I still dont understand why this whole fundraiser thing was especially aimed at helping LGBT youths, it sort of discriminates all others... its just weird.

Because the fund raiser was put on by the unofficial Gay-Straight Alliance at the school. Many groups put on fundraisers for specific groups of people, like alzheimer's, breast cancer, etc.

 

[CaptainToad]

Because the fund raiser was put on by the unofficial Gay-Straight Alliance at the school. Many groups put on fundraisers for specific groups of people, like alzheimer's, breast cancer, etc.

Right, but still its kinda weird to me. A homeless youth is a homeless youth, it shouldnt make a difference if you are gay or not - thats my point,

 

[CaptainToad]

It's an agenda to bring the morality issue to a head, imo. Then the religious power in America will blowback and demand that laws be enacted to legislate morality. We will see if I am right or not... if I am, Sunday laws a comin'

If you know what a hegelian dialectic is, you'll understand....

Could be - still doubtful to me that this incident will have such an impact.

As a matter of fact we are witnessing an agenda that is supposed to bring people more and more away fromt the Lord - maybe its designed this way to bring about sunday law - but maybe the agenda is more obvious in that it really intends to have more and more unbelievers...

 

[grandvizier1006]

Why JUST "LGBT" homeless? How many homeless people even have a relevant sexual orientation? If you're poor and living out of a cardboard box or under a bridge, I highly doubt you can qualify as being part of any subculture. They ought to just expand the bake sale for all homeless people, considering that any homeless person could just claim they're gay and get food. The fact that they'd have to do so here is just stupid favoritism. Utterly ridiculous that your place in society is inversely proportional to how much discrimination you presumably faced.

 

[Cute Tink]

Some people choose to help out certain segments of society rather than all of society. If we are going to question, why homeless youth and not homeless people? They picked a particular group to help and went with it. It's possible that they thought this particular group was being underserved by other organizations.

 

[CaptainToad]

Why JUST "LGBT" homeless? How many homeless people even have a relevant sexual orientation? If you're poor and living out of a cardboard box or under a bridge, I highly doubt you can qualify as being part of any subculture. They ought to just expand the bake sale for all homeless people, considering that any homeless person could just claim they're gay and get food. The fact that they'd have to do so here is just stupid favoritism. Utterly ridiculous that your place in society is inversely proportional to how much discrimination you presumably faced.

Thats totally my point!

- but then again we will never know what they were really up to. Maybe they just intentionally put it this way, knowing it will cause some turmoil and now they achieved what they aimed at. Sometimes there is just one or two persons who know the whole agenda and the rest just following a pretext. Happens very often actually...

 

[CaptainToad]

Some people choose to help out certain segments of society rather than all of society. If we are going to question, why homeless youth and not homeless people? They picked a particular group to help and went with it. It's possible that they thought this particular group was being underserved by other organizations.

THe whole thing is very suspicious, if ask me. Its ok to target a specific group or subculture, but in this context its actually a little bit too specific, unnecessarily too specific - it somehow reeks, must be something fishy.

Imagine the following:

A fundraiser to help homeless youths that are straight - and only straight homeless youths will receive benefits

At this point the situation is gonna get tricky - its total discrimination - because it excludes LGBT people, you cannot really do that, so why is it ok to do it the other way round and discriminate straight people?

They are in the very same boat, if you are homeless then you are homeless, being straight or gay doesnt necessarily give you any benefits.

Actually being gay could be some sort of an advantage. A possible source of income for homeless people might be prostitution, and as far as males are concerned I guess most options are connected with homosexual intercourse. I presume it would be tough for anyone to prostitute themselves, man or woman, straight or male, but I guess its highly disgusting for a heterosexual man to do sexual intercourse with another man, if you are gay its maybe not so much of a problem - but I digress.

So this whole thing IMHO caused some unnecessary attention, and IMHO was very questionable from the beginning.

 

[grandvizier1006]

Some people choose to help out certain segments of society rather than all of society. If we are going to question, why homeless youth and not homeless people? They picked a particular group to help and went with it. It's possible that they thought this particular group was being underserved by other organizations.

Homeless "youth"? Have you noticed how whenever it's a minority that the left wants to help, they refer to the people as "youths"? I've never heard the phrase "Christian youths" or "white youths", always "[minority] youths", and even then there's this presupposition that the "youth" has to live in some inner city and is subject to lots of hatred and discrimination. So, even though I'm a young person, I'm apparently not a youth because I don't live in some urban city with lots of different subcultures all together, and I never got beat up by thugs as a kid? I didn't exactly have a lot of opportunities to face discrimination, sure, but my life was Hell sometimes, too.

That's a good point, why not just homeless people in general? Plenty of homeless people are old, plenty of homeless people are recently homeless while others have been living on the streets their whole lives.

I figured that if you're homeless your main priorities would be to find food and shelter, rather than obsess over how "different" you are from everybody else.

 

[Cute Tink]

THe whole thing is very suspicious, if ask me. Its ok to target a specific group or subculture, but in this context its actually a little bit too specific, unnecessarily too specific - it somehow reeks, must be something fishy.

Imagine the following:

A fundraiser to help homeless youths that are straight - and only straight homeless youths will receive benefits

At this point the situation is gonna get tricky - its total discrimination - because it excludes LGBT people, you cannot really do that, so why is it ok to do it the other way round and discriminate straight people?

They are in the very same boat, if you are homeless then you are homeless, being straight or gay doesnt necessarily give you any benefits.

Actually being gay could be some sort of an advantage. A possible source of income for homeless people might be prostitution, and as far as males are concerned I guess most options are connected with homosexual intercourse. I presume it would be tough for anyone to prostitute themselves, man or woman, straight or male, but I guess its highly disgusting for a heterosexual man to do sexual intercourse with another man, if you are gay its maybe not so much of a problem - but I digress.

So this whole thing IMHO caused some unnecessary attention, and IMHO was very questionable from the beginning.

Prostitution is something LGBT people resort to in order to survive in some cases. It may allow them to get by when they can be refused a job because they are gay or trans in many states in this country still. I don't hear of many, if any, cases of straight people being refused a job because of being straight. One might say that's an advantage they have so they don't have to turn to prostitution. Does that also strike you as questionable from the beginning?

If you are so concerned about straight people being discriminated against, then perhaps you should find all those instances of straight discrimination and bring that to this groups' attention so that they can make sure that straights are not bring under served by charities.

You know, since it's all so suspicious that a group might want to help a particular demographic with their efforts.

 

[grandvizier1006]

Ok, just read that this was a Christian university. Now this is just even more ridiculous.

Rather than expanding their bake sale to benefit all sorts of homeless people, it just HAD to be "LGBT" homeless people ONLY. Never mind the fact that you could just say, "Oh, I'm gay and I'm homeless", and you could probably benefit from it. Chances are all the proceeds would have gone to some charity, and it appalls me that a charity would turn a blind eye to the 99.9999% of homeless people who are probably too poor and starving to give a crap about their sexuality. As for prostitution, I don't know how viable that is. If you gave money, food and housing to any homeless person, they'd probably get out of whatever sin they've resorted to get by, which I assumed would more likely be theft.

I think what bothers me is both the fact that this student was very narrow in his idea, the fact that he assumed that by helping ONLY homeless LGBT people he was actually doing something useful for the very small group of people that would benefit the community, and the fact that the Christian university didn't carefully organize and clarify what they were doing. When a person is starving and in need of assistance, their sexuality is completely irrelevant, both to them and to you.

Can't we all just look past all of these meaningless differences our beloved America has forced upon us?!?!?!

 

[Cute Tink]

Ok, just read that this was a Christian university. Now this is just even more ridiculous.

Rather than expanding their bake sale to benefit all sorts of homeless people, it just HAD to be "LGBT" homeless people ONLY. Never mind the fact that you could just say, "Oh, I'm gay and I'm homeless", and you could probably benefit from it. Chances are all the proceeds would have gone to some charity, and it appalls me that a charity would turn a blind eye to the 99.9999% of homeless people who are probably too poor and starving to give a crap about their sexuality. As for prostitution, I don't know how viable that is. If you gave money, food and housing to any homeless person, they'd probably get out of whatever sin they've resorted to get by, which I assumed would more likely be theft.

I think what bothers me is both the fact that this student was very narrow in his idea, the fact that he assumed that by helping ONLY homeless LGBT people he was actually doing something useful for the very small group of people that would benefit the community, and the fact that the Christian university didn't carefully organize and clarify what they were doing. When a person is starving and in need of assistance, their sexuality is completely irrelevant, both to them and to you.

Can't we all just look past all of these meaningless differences our beloved America has forced upon us?!?!?!

Actually the percentage of youth who are homeless tends to be more LGBT than represented in general society. Someone in this topic quoted 40%. That's way over-representive of the LGBT population.

Once again, if you feel that every charity should stop choosing to handle a particular demographic, go after all of them.

 

[CaptainToad]

Prostitution is something LGBT people resort to in order to survive in some cases. It may allow them to get by when they can be refused a job because they are gay or trans in many states in this country still. I don't hear of many, if any, cases of straight people being refused a job because of being straight. One might say that's an advantage they have so they don't have to turn to prostitution. Does that also strike you as questionable from the beginning?

If you are so concerned about straight people being discriminated against, then perhaps you should find all those instances of straight discrimination and bring that to this groups' attention so that they can make sure that straights are not bring under served by charities.

You know, since it's all so suspicious that a group might want to help a particular demographic with their efforts.

First of all, I referred to people that are homeless, I think its not easy for any member of the homeless group to find a job. And I dont think its necessary to tell the employer about your sexual preferences when applying for a job. I mentioned prostitution because, as you rightly said, its an option for homeless people, its not a good option, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do in order to survive. I dont think that straight people dont have to turn to prostitution and I dont think that gay people absolutely have to turn to prostitution. This example wasnt necessarily the best one, but its true. Gay or straight you can still decide what you do, you walk the streets and beg - I would prefer that instead of, you know...

I am not really concerned about straight discrimination - but it happens, more and more. So if one group can be discriminated, so can the other. Thats just basic logic. If you can use an argument to make a point for one direction you must allow the same for another direction.
Nowadays, its the minorities that people are concerned with, and thats OK, but the majorities should be neglected either.

Why cant it be suspicious? Does everything have to be so obvious? Like those weapons of mass destruction that call for an all out war? Its just so obvious that they are real yet they can never be found - ever thought about that?

 

[CaptainToad]

Ok, just read that this was a Christian university. Now this is just even more ridiculous.

Rather than expanding their bake sale to benefit all sorts of homeless people, it just HAD to be "LGBT" homeless people ONLY. Never mind the fact that you could just say, "Oh, I'm gay and I'm homeless", and you could probably benefit from it. Chances are all the proceeds would have gone to some charity, and it appalls me that a charity would turn a blind eye to the 99.9999% of homeless people who are probably too poor and starving to give a crap about their sexuality. As for prostitution, I don't know how viable that is. If you gave money, food and housing to any homeless person, they'd probably get out of whatever sin they've resorted to get by, which I assumed would more likely be theft.

I think what bothers me is both the fact that this student was very narrow in his idea, the fact that he assumed that by helping ONLY homeless LGBT people he was actually doing something useful for the very small group of people that would benefit the community, and the fact that the Christian university didn't carefully organize and clarify what they were doing. When a person is starving and in need of assistance, their sexuality is completely irrelevant, both to them and to you.

Can't we all just look past all of these meaningless differences our beloved America has forced upon us?!?!?!

totally agreed!!!

 

[CaptainToad]

Actually the percentage of youth who are homeless tends to be more LGBT than represented in general society. Someone in this topic quoted 40%. That's way over-representive of the LGBT population.

Once again, if you feel that every charity should stop choosing to handle a particular demographic, go after all of them.

Someone said: dont believe a statistic that you havent forged yourself

Yes, its very suspicious!

 

[grandvizier1006]

Actually the percentage of youth who are homeless tends to be more LGBT than represented in general society. Someone in this topic quoted 40%. That's way over-representive of the LGBT population.

Once again, if you feel that every charity should stop choosing to handle a particular demographic, go after all of them.

Seems slightly plausible, but I'm skeptical. How did they become homeless, as a result of being disowned? I figured most of those were just fear-mongering. Most people wouldn't disown their children for any reason, and I don't even know if it's legal to just force your child out of your house when they're legally in your custody. Or just general poverty? Surely who one is sexually attracted to isn't a factor for most cases of homelessness. 40% of LGBT people being homeless just seems a bit suspicious to me.

Do you have any statistics (from reliable, non-biased sources that wouldn't benefit from making the percentages higher than they really are)?

 

[Cute Tink]

Someone said: dont believe a statistic that you havent forged yourself

Yes, its very suspicious!

Seems slightly plausible, but I'm skeptical. How did they become homeless, as a result of being disowned? I figured most of those were just fear-mongering. Most people wouldn't disown their children for any reason, and I don't even know if it's legal to just force your child out of your house when they're legally in your custody. Or just general poverty? Surely who one is sexually attracted to isn't a factor for most cases of homelessness. 40% of LGBT people being homeless just seems a bit suspicious to me.

Do you have any statistics (from reliable, non-biased sources that wouldn't benefit from making the percentages higher than they really are)?

All this suspicion. Why is everyone so suspicious?

Yes, some homeless children are disowned and kicked out by family for sexual orientation reasons and/or because of gender identity. It isn't pretty, but it happens.

As to ability to find a job, your sexual orientation may not come up at the interview, but if it comes up later, you can be fired for it.

As for a source, how about the United States Interagency Council on Homelessness?

Youth homelessness is a problem that doesn’t fit neatly into a box. The exact number of youth experiencing homelessness is difficult to determine: they are undercounted in national data as unaccompanied youth are often unconnected to services or shelters. Though they do not have a safe stable place to call home, many wind up “couch surfing” with friends, relatives, or acquaintances. There does appear to be agreement that twenty to forty percent of youth experiencing homelessness self-identify as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, or Queer/Questioning (LGBTQ), which is disproportionate to the percentage of LGBTQ youth in the general youth population.

Now I will leave you to your suspicions. I have nothing more to say on this topic, because I don't see the problem with a group of people trying to raise money or help out a specific demographic simply because those are the people they choose to help.

 

[grandvizier1006]

All this suspicion. Why is everyone so suspicious?

Yes, some homeless children are disowned and kicked out by family for sexual orientation reasons and/or because of gender identity. It isn't pretty, but it happens.

As to ability to find a job, your sexual orientation may not come up at the interview, but if it comes up later, you can be fired for it.

As for a source, how about the United States Interagency Council on Homelessness?



Now I will leave you to your suspicions. I have nothing more to say on this topic, because I don't see the problem with a group of people trying to raise money or help out a specific demographic simply because those are the people they choose to help.

Ugh, what exactly are you so offended by? I just don't see any reason why charitable causes have to limit themselves to specific groups of people. I'm certainly aware of the people who get disowned due to gender or sexuality issues, but that practice of putting them out on the streets just doesn't seem like something everyone, even particularly bigoted people, would actually do.

I could have sworn queer was a slur, not synonymous with questioning one's sexuality. I've heard of "genderqueer" but I don't know if there's even a large enough population of those people to determine how many are homeless or not.

I'm upset that those people weren't helped, too, I just don't see what the emphasis on a very specific section of the homeless population is for. Pretty much every homeless person has a hard life, who cares what their sexual orientation is. I'm sick and tired of all of this obsession with the millions of genders and sexualities out there and all of the oppression these people face, and all the constant whining about suffering. I suffered too, but I don't see the government giving me a handout. I don't see myself as part of some stupid group based on how different I am.

What's the point of complaining about suffering if EVERYONE suffers in life? Doesn't matter how, or from whom. I find it bizarre and almost hilarious how none of these "LGBT" people will even target Christianity as the cause of their suffering, or at the very least its misapplication. It's just "a homophobic society", without a single face or name on it. Just like Hilary's "vast right wing conspiracy". It's just "everybody", isn't it? Everybody who isn't an "ally" is an enemy, because they're GURANTEED to disown you or not hire you for a job due to a part of your personal life. And it doesn't matter if you've had a slight inkling of same-sex attractions or you're a harlot who's done it a million different ways with a million different people, you get lumped into the same group.

I'm leaving this thread, too. I'm sick of society and what it's done to ME.