An Interesting Seventh-day Adventist teaching about Apes breeding humans?

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Stryder06

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How can there be no point? This was a base crime that more than anything else brings destruction on the world. I don't see why this would not be something to talk about.

How can this horrible base crime/sin not be something to be looked at.
I've given you what I think she was saying. There are not enough details about these events which is why I say that it's not worth arguing. All we can do is make assumptions, on both ends of the spectrum, which really amount to nothing but more arguing. Man's wickedness is what brought about the flood, that is what matters, the types of wicked acts they committed in regards to amalgamation are not specified.

For that matter we are now seeing bio-engineering on a high level in crops, and animals, with genes being manipulated for certain perceived benefits. Would not this be a timely message?
Nope, a timely message is the third angels message. Fear God and give glory to Him who made the heavens and earth and springs and fountains of water.

She included both as a base crime, so you cannot pick and choose. Are you sure it is all that confusing what she meant? Maybe it is not an issue because Adventists don't like what she meant.
It's not an issue because it doesn't lead to salvation. This is my first time hearing about this personally, and as already stated, i'm still doing my reserach.

So that it is clear I will post the statements again. Please notice that both mention amalgamation of man AND beast. And the animals were such a problem that she says God killed off the problematic animals.

But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere.

{3SG 64.1}


Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men. {3SG 75.2}

So how can you say that the animals are not an issue?

She said both were a base crime and led to destruction. Please do not change what she said for your own comfort.

And see above as to the certain races of men portion.
I didn't say that animals weren't an issue, if I did i meant to say that they weren't the main issue. Animals most likely weren't cross-breeding themselves by choice. It would be best to assume that these cross-breedings were the actions of man, thus adding to their wickedness.

Either way, like I said, I'm no expert here. If i'm wrong about this than i'm wrong, and I'll find out in heaven exactly what happened back in Noah's day.
 
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Norbert L

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Why not? For all Christians in the past and of today have the mind of Christ. It is when secular minds get involved and try to reason why things are that error comes into play.

There is a need to make sense out of the social issues affecting the spiritual environment. That environment changes with the times.

Going back further, it would be inconceivable for the masses of Christian minds to even believe that Messianic Judaism and those who believe in Messiah and remain faithful through Christ and study Torah as the light reflected in God's inspired scripture = Christian. Nevermind that just keeping the Sabbath also meant Judaizer.

Indeed it is when the religious mind gets involved with the secular powers, more than the errors in doctrine start to happen.

However all that is somewhat off topic, the argument I was trying to make involved giving a reason why those words were written by Ellen White. That her words stem from a social environment she lived in and also look where those times led to. That perhaps there is a lesson for people in the present today, that has less to do with scribblings of man and beast and more to do with men and God.
 
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Sophia7

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You've missed my point. Who is "Uriah Smith" such that I should listen to what he has to say? To me, he's a nobody, a supporter of a false prophet called Ellen White. I couldn't care less what SDA's say about such things as interbreeding of species. They don't even understand the basic tenets of their own faith, let alone such advanced topics as genetics and interspecies breeding.

If you don't even understand that the OT Sabbath has been abolished in the NT, as the vast majority of other Christians do, I'm not expecting much out of you when it comes to complex dynamics of man and animal.

So, Uriah Smith to me is nothing.

You are still missing the point. Uriah Smith's statement is important and relevant to this topic because it provides evidence that contradicts the Adventist attempts to defend Ellen White's amalgamation statements. If you don't care what Adventists say about interbreeding of species and races, you are in the wrong thread, since that is the subject of the OP.

Also, please don't make assumptions about me. I am a former Seventh-day Adventist and a former sabbatarian.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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You are still missing the point. Uriah Smith's statement is important and relevant to this topic because it provides evidence that contradicts the Adventist attempts to defend Ellen White's amalgamation statements. If you don't care what Adventists say about interbreeding of species and races, you are in the wrong thread, since that is the subject of the OP.

Also, please don't make assumptions about me. I am a former Seventh-day Adventist and a former sabbatarian.
Ahhh....Glad to hear that, as who better to discuss this than a former SDA :thumbsup: :wave:
 
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Pythons

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Tall brings up an interesting and extremely valid point in that the fundamental belief of the denomination requires that one belive that all of Ellen's writings are a continuing sourse of truth. That fact, added with additional statements by the Prophet that have been "removed" from her writings should concern people who agree to the fundamental belief of the denomination.
 
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tall73

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Tall brings up an interesting and extremely valid point in that the fundamental belief of the denomination requires that one belive that all of Ellen's writings are a continuing sourse of truth. That fact, added with additional statements by the Prophet that have been "removed" from her writings should concern people who agree to the fundamental belief of the denomination.

And notice that two Adventists in this thread hadn't even heard of this quote. I wouldn't say that is surprising. Certain EGW White "continuing truth" gets more publicity from the church than others.
 
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Pythons

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And notice that two Adventists in this thread hadn't even heard of this quote. I wouldn't say that is surprising. Certain EGW White "continuing truth" gets more publicity from the church than others.

I'm not sure how to word it but that's very similar to what they accuse Christians of other faiths of doing - cherry picking the things they want to observe instead of believing everything. If all of Ellen's writings are truth, and to insult her is to insult God then even the embarassing stuff must be observed and believed, right?
 
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Sophia7

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I'm not sure how to word it but that's very similar to what they accuse Christians of other faiths of doing - cherry picking the things they want to observe instead of believing everything. If all of Ellen's writings are truth, and to insult her is to insult God then even the embarassing stuff must be observed and believed, right?

Yes. She explicitly commanded people not to pick and choose from her writings and said that her work was either all from God or all from Satan:
Many times in my experience I have been called upon to meet the attitude of a certain class who acknowledged that the testimonies were from God, but took the position that this matter and that matter were Sister White's opinion and judgment. This suits those who do not love reproof and correction, and who, if their ideas are crossed, have occasion to explain the difference between the human and the divine. {2MR 87.2}

If the preconceived opinions or particular ideas of some are crossed in being reproved by testimonies, they have a burden at once to make plain their position to discriminate between the testimonies, defining what is Sister White's human judgment and what is the word of the Lord.Everything that sustains their cherished ideas is divine, and the testimonies to correct their errors are human--Sister White's opinions. They make of none effect the counsel of God by their tradition.--Ms 16, 1889, p. 1. ("The Discernment of Truth," circa Jan. 1889. 3SM p. 69.) {2MR 87.3}
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And now, brethren, I entreat you not to interpose between me and the people, and turn away the light which God would have come to them. Do not by your criticisms take out all the force, all the point and power, from the Testimonies. Do not feel that you can dissect them to suit your own ideas, claiming that God has given you ability to discern what is light from heaven and what is the expression of mere human wisdom. If the Testimonies speak not according to the Word of God, reject them.--Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 691. {3SM 46.3}
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In the testimonies sent to Battle Creek, I have given you the light God has given to me. In no case have I given my own judgment or opinion. I have enough to write of what has been shown me, without falling back on my own opinions. You are doing as the children of Israel did again and again. Instead of repenting before God, you reject His words, and attribute all the warnings and reproof to the messenger whom the Lord sends.--Testimony for the Battle Creek Church, pp. 50-58 (1882). {3SM 70.1}

Permit me to express my mind, and yet not my mind, but the word of the Lord.--Letter 89, 1899. (Quoted in Counsels to Writers and Editors, p. 112.) {3SM 70.2}
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Let the Testimonies be judged by their fruits. What is the spirit of their teaching? What has been the result of their influence? "All who desire to do so can acquaint themselves with the fruits of these visions. For seventeen years God has seen fit to let them survive and strengthen against the opposition of Satan's forces and the influence of human agencies that have aided Satan in his work." {5T 671.1}

"God is either teaching His church, reproving their wrongs and strengthening their faith, or He is not. This work is of God, or it is not. God does nothing in partnership with Satan. My work . . . bears the stamp of God or the stamp of the enemy. There is no halfway work in the matter. The Testimonies are of the Spirit of God, or of the devil." [VOL. 4, P. 230.] {5T 671.2}

As the Lord has manifested Himself through the spirit of prophecy, past, present, and future have passed before me. I have been shown faces that I had never seen, and years afterward I knew them when I saw them. I have been aroused from my sleep with a vivid sense of subjects previously presented to my mind; and I have written, at midnight, letters that have gone across the continent and, arriving at a crisis, have saved great disaster to the cause of God. This has been my work for many years. A power has impelled me to reprove and rebuke wrongs that I had not thought of. Is this work of the last thirty-six years from above or from beneath?" [VOL. 5, PP. 64, 65 (1882).] {5T 671.3}
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The statement which you quote from "Testimony," No. 31, that "in these letters which I wrote, in the Testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision -- the precious rays of light shining from the throne," is correct. It is true concerning the articles in our papers and in the many volumes of my books. I have been instructed in accordance with the Word in the precepts of the law of God. I have been instructed in selecting from the lessons of Christ. Are not the positions taken in my writings in harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ? If not, point it out to me. {RH, September 6, 1906 par. 1}
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Yet now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God. You know how the Lord has manifested Himself through the spirit of prophecy. Past, present, and future have passed before me. I have been shown faces that I had never seen, and years afterward I knew them when I saw them. I have been aroused from my sleep with a vivid sense of subjects previously presented to my mind; and I have written, at midnight, letters that have gone across the continent and, arriving at a crisis, have saved great disaster to the cause of God. This has been my work for many years. A power has impelled me to reprove and rebuke wrongs that I had not thought of. Is this work of the last thirty-six years from above or from beneath? {5T 64.3}
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When I went to Colorado I was so burdened for you that, in my weakness, I wrote many pages to be read at your camp meeting. Weak and trembling, I arose at three o'clock in the morning to write to you. God was speaking through clay. You might say that this communication was only a letter. Yes, it was a letter, but prompted by the Spirit of God, to bring before your minds things that had been shown me. In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the precious rays of light shining from the throne. {5T 67.2}
According to EGW herself, there are no other options than either to view her as a prophet and accept everything she wrote as inspired by the Holy Spirit or to reject her as a prophet and consider none of what she wrote inspired by God. She said that none of it was her own opinion and that if people rejected her messages, they were rejecting God. There is no in-between option. Adventists who pick and choose are not in accordance with their own fundamental belief in EGW's writings as "a continuing and authoritative source of truth."
 
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