A Losing Battle

[amariselle]

This has been on my heart lately. The last few days I have been trying my best to take a stand for the sanctity of ALL human life. Sometimes it feels like this is a losing battle to be honest, but I know I have to keep trying.
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I have decided to remove the rest of my posts because although I was only trying to share what was on my heart and take a stand for all the precious, unborn babies and their mothers and families, and I was hoping to share that with other Christians, I was instead accused of seeking adoration and likes.

I have no need to be adored, I was only hoping to find more Christians who are also heartbroken by what they see happening in the world today.

My apologies to anyone I hurt or offended.

 

[SkyWriting]

ALL human life is sacred and intrinsically valuable as it comes from our Creator who created us in His image.

Those who choose abortion are not as uninformed as you imply.

 

[amariselle]

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[Douglas Hendrickson]

But I started this thread to discuss abortions done for the sake of convenience, and although this is not the only reason abortions are done, it is a reason, and I was simply sharing my thoughts.

Depending on how one understands "convenience" or "inconvenience," it may be rather disingenuous to suggest that anyone would ever for that reason alone have an abortion. That is, as a reason it is probably ALWAYS one of many that lead a particular woman to make that choice.

You seem to want to pack all elements of "readiness" to be a parent into it, to give it that meaning. Thus much weightier matters than are usually considered something of "convenience" can seem to be being dismissed by a rather flippant consideration. That is, the person you want to persuade not to have an abortion is not likely to ever think (or agree to!) that it is merely on the basis of CONVENIENCE that she is making such a choice.

I think your point about "many of these women are told outright lies that their baby is not actually a baby at all" is more to the point of why there is the termination of the pregnancy. BUT your only saying that is not likely to be convincing - it is what must be argued about if you are going to convince anybody it is not okay to abort.

I have recently here at CF tried to raise such points about what would or would not justify someone choosing an abortion, but threads tend to be shut down if any such concerns are discussed, on the basis it would seem that anything that does not obviously reinforce a "pro-life" position is suspect and pretty likely to be called PROMOTING ABORTION. So I would like to speak about this, but I guess the censors will not allow any such discussion.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

How thankful I am that my life does not need to be "convenient" to be worthwhile and precious. ALL human life is sacred and intrinsically valuable as it comes from our Creator who created us in His image.

And if all life is sacred and intrinsically valuable, I would hope you back up your words with your beliefs and support a robust social safety net for ALL to be able to keep and raise those children you want born. If not, then you're a hypocrite.

 

[amariselle]

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[amariselle]

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[Douglas Hendrickson]

Actually, I was addressing the cases where is does come down to "convenience". I wasn't trying to lump all or most abortions together, and I wasn't being "flippant."

This post was in response to such viewpoints that I HAVE come across, even on this site. I guess I am just heartbroken that another person's life is ended simply because they would have in some way been a "burden."

By all means, we should be entering into a dialogue with women about this issue and about why they may feel that abortion is the best or the only option for them. I don't think we will solve this any other way. We need to be loving and compassionate, not condemning, but we also need to be honest and speak for those who have no voice, and I believe we can and should do both.

The Bible clearly tells us to care for the orphans and the widows, those who cannot stand up for themselves. (And yes, this oftentimes means the mother as well).

I would suggest it never comes down to convenience. It is always a much more significant matter than that to be bringing into the world another person, even if one gives him/her up for adoption. And I doubt a person who knows she is pregnant is ever unaware of at least some of those things, including the bad health effects of pregnancy she may have to endure. Try telling someone suffering from morning sickness that she is merely objecting to being inconvenienced?

I didn't say you were being flippant, but meant to be saying the claim someone is doing it ONLY as a matter of convenience may seem to be accusing those who opt for abortion of being flippant, it being an inaccurate way of describing the real considerations they no doubt enter into.

 

[amariselle]

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[Douglas Hendrickson]

How thankful I am that my life does not need to be "convenient" to be worthwhile and precious. ALL human life is sacred and intrinsically valuable as it comes from our Creator who created us in His image.

Actually, to be a stickler about it, strictly speaking, ALL human life is not sacred and intrinsically valuable.

If one is allowed to consider a little the truth of it, cancer cells are human cells (when they are) and cancer cells are alive (when they are, unfortunately), so they are correctly called "human life" and I suspect you would not want to be calling them sacred and not to be destroyed.

 

[amariselle]

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[SkyWriting]

I hadn't actually said they are uninformed. I am saying however, that we need to start valuing ALL life (which includes the parents' lives) and offer help and hope that allows for an unborn child's life to be saved. Because each and every life is precious.

But, actually, since you mentioned people being uninformed...I would argue that many who choose abortion still are, specifically young women who are likely overwhelmed and feel they have no other choice. And many of these women are told outright lies that their baby is not actually a baby at all. In this way they are taken advantage of.

This too needs to stop.

But I started this thread to discuss abortions done for the sake of convenience, and although this is not the only reason abortions are done, it is a reason, and I was simply sharing my thoughts.

You explain in this post that the women are not properly informed.
I don't believe this to be true. I think even 10 year olds are informed.

 

[amariselle]

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[SkyWriting]

If you are referring to the post that you quoted, I was actually saying SOME women are taken advantage of and lied to in a very vulnerable time.

However, overall, you are right, none of us can really make the argument that we don't know it is a human life that is being killed through abortion, whatever reasons we may use to justify it.

Which just further demonstrates how heartbreaking it is that many unborn children continue to be killed every single day.

You could nip the problem in the bud and blame women for having sex
outside of marriage without planning on children.
Becuase that's where the problem is.

 

[amariselle]

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[dhh712]

I would suggest it never comes down to convenience. It is always a much more significant matter than that to be bringing into the world another person, even if one gives him/her up for adoption. And I doubt a person who knows she is pregnant is ever unaware of at least some of those things, including the bad health effects of pregnancy she may have to endure. Try telling someone suffering from morning sickness that she is merely objecting to being inconvenienced?

I didn't say you were being flippant, but meant to be saying the claim someone is doing it ONLY as a matter of convenience may seem to be accusing those who opt for abortion of being flippant, it being an inaccurate way of describing the real considerations they no doubt enter into.

Okay, so it never comes down to convenience. What are some of the reasons then, why mothers abort their children?

Try telling someone suffering from morning sickness that she is merely objecting to being inconvenienced?

Wouldn't someone suffering from morning sickness want it to stop because they are being inconvenienced by it? (Surely the loss of all those electrolytes and what not will eventually make them inconveniently ill) How is convenience/inconvenience being defined here? Maybe there is some misunderstanding about that.

I would suggest it never comes down to convenience. It is always a much more significant matter than that to be bringing into the world another person, even if one gives him/her up for adoption.

Actually, my sister gave her son up for adoption because it would have been inconvenient for her to raise a child while in high school (seeing that she would not have had the financial ability to on her own). So there's at least one person that due to the matter of convenience did not want to bring a child into the world (she was also considering abortion due to this reason). Maybe she was the only one though.

 

[amariselle]

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[dhh712]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts dhh712. I know that babies are aborted due to them being viewed as an inconvenience. And even just one baby killed for this reason is one too many. I just don't know why no one wants to admit that it is happening. It breaks my heart.

Mine too. Sorry to inform everyone of the facts, but hardly any of the abortions that do take place are done because of medical problems (a total of 7% in the study quoted below). The only other side to that is convenience. Let's take a look at some reasons quoted (since apparently it is NEVER a matter of convenience): "not ready for a child/timing is wrong; can't afford a baby now; [feelings that they had] completed my childbearing/have other people depending on me/children are grown; having relationship problems/don't want to be single-mother; [did not feel] mature enough to raise a child/feel too young; child would interfere with education or career plans;" (matters of convenience anyone?)

If you look at the matter practically/logically, what else is the abortion going to be for if not for medical reasons? Because they enjoy killing little kids?

Here you go with the study if anyone who cares to be properly informed: [taken from : http://www.nrlc.org/archive/news/2005/NRL10/NewStudy.html]


The 2004 study, which appeared in the September 2005 issue of Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health (formerly Family Planning Perspectives), surveyed 1,209 abortion patients at 11 large abortion centers across the country. The survey was then followed up with in-depth interviews with 38 women at four centers.1

Women in the first group filled out an eight-page survey identifying their reasons for coming to the clinic, hospital, or doctor's office to have an abortion, and listed their demographic characteristics, such as age, race, income, marital status, etc. Women from the first group who agreed to sit for 30–60 minute recorded interviews discussing those decisions in more detail constituted the second group.

There were a number of responses women gave to the question as to what was "the most important reason" they had their abortions: they were "not ready for a(nother) child/timing is wrong," cited by 25%; they "can't afford a baby now," cited by 23%; feelings that they had "completed my childbearing/have other people depending on me/children are grown," cited by 19%; and "having relationship problems/don't want to be a single mother" was cited by 8%.

An additional 7% identified not feeling "mature enough to raise a(nother) child/feel too young," while 4% cited their view that the child "would interfere with education or career plans."

Notably, only 4% cited a "physical problem with my health" as the main factor in their abortions, while 3% identified "possible problems affecting the health of the fetus" as the most important reason behind their decisions.

 

[SkyWriting]

Blame is not helpful. Life does not always go as planned.

And as for "nipping the problem in the bud?" Yeah, we can see how well such shaming (especially when done by the church) worked in the past. It solved nothing, and left only brokenness.

But I thought that was your entire intention.
It's doesn't seem to love and acceptance of sinners.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Okay, so it never comes down to convenience. What are some of the reasons then, why mothers abort their children?

Wouldn't someone suffering from morning sickness want it to stop because they are being inconvenienced by it? (Surely the loss of all those electrolytes and what not will eventually make them inconveniently ill) How is convenience/inconvenience being defined here? Maybe there is some misunderstanding about that.

Actually, my sister gave her son up for adoption because it would have been inconvenient for her to raise a child while in high school (seeing that she would not have had the financial ability to on her own). So there's at least one person that due to the matter of convenience did not want to bring a child into the world (she was also considering abortion due to this reason). Maybe she was the only one though.

If you notice my other posts on this thread, it seems I had better not try to answer your question about reasons for abortion - the authorities, the censors will pounce on me for "promoting abortion." And you may also get into trouble for GOADING me into it.

BTW, the fact your sister did not have an abortion shows she did not use inconvenience as a (sufficient) reason to do it.
Also, do you think "financial ability" is only a matter of convenience?