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An examination of the claim that God decreed Adam's fall

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by janxharris, May 3, 2013.

  1. Iosias

    Iosias Senior Contributor

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    Do you believe that Luke alludes to the wilderness wanderings of Israel in Lk. 4 presenting Jesus as faithful Israel?
     
  2. Epiphoskei

    Epiphoskei Senior Veteran

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    It's a theory in decadence, vainly trying to convince people that it hasn't lost its former glory. You can always tell when this is happening - a waning speculative theory's proponents become less and less tolerant of those who reject it as speculation the more it becomes evident the theory can't be proven.
     
    Clare73 likes this.
  3. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Yes, that is Biblically warranted from connections which are specifically stated in Scripture, making for type and anti-type, rather than "allusions."

    Jesus is Israel (Mt 2:15),
    who has crossed the Red Sea (in baptism--1Co 10:2) into the wilderness,
    whose replies to Satan are all drawn from Israel's wilderness experience (Deut).

    Satan's strategy there was to provoke Jesus to mutiny, so Satan could then justly accuse him before God by God's own Law (word),
    but instead Jesus quoted God's own Law (word) "back at him."
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
  4. Iosias

    Iosias Senior Contributor

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    They are allusions, no where in Scripture is Jesus' temptation in the wilderness explicitly declared to be an allusion to Israel's wilderness wanderings. It is not typology, if you think so you are sadly wrong in your understanding of type and anti-type. But at least you agree with the substance.

    As I have taught elsewhere, based upon the work of Michael Horton:

     
  5. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    They are not "allusions."

    Biblical connections are not "declared."

    Luke simply reported the events.

    In the events he reported, connections exist between the events and the OT Scriptures.

    The connections are real, and the NT makes them in Mt 2:15, 3:4, 7, 10; 1Co 10:2.

    Granted. . .typology is too strong a word, they are more correctly called Biblically warranted connections.
     
  6. Iosias

    Iosias Senior Contributor

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    The connections I am drawing are biblically warranted being based upon patterns in the scriptures themselves.
     
  7. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    They are based on your interpretations of them as patterns.

    Where do you find statements in the Scriptural text showing their actual connections?
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2013
  8. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Saved by Grace through Faith

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    I got to thinking about this topic today, and decided to share a thought.

    What sense would it make for God to have foreordained a "plan of salvation" (Covenant of Redemption) before creating the world, with a "genuine" possibility that mankind, specifically Adam and Eve, would not sin against God? If mankind had not fallen, would that not have made at best the "plan of salvation" of null effect, at worst evidence of a God unable to know the future and or something even worse?
     
  9. Yes...everything went in perfect accordance with GOD'S Eternal,and Sovereign plan. He created to world for a redemptive purpose.