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An atheists world (3)

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by toolmanjantzi, Sep 2, 2013.

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  1. Davian

    Davian fallible

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    I am ignostic on this subject. (no, not agnostic)

    I am wagering that you do not understand "God". I wager that you cannot provide a coherent, testable, falsifiable definition of what you mean by "God" right here in these forums.

    If you really do understand "God" this should not be a problem.

    What will we wager?
     
  2. Davian

    Davian fallible

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    Do not forget to add evolution.

    And Pizza.

    Go on...
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
  3. toolmanjantzi

    toolmanjantzi Veteran

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    What is truth? Who was it that said science was not the absolute truth?
     
  4. Davian

    Davian fallible

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    To the best of my awareness.

    Are you being totally honest with us?
    No, it is my understanding that my 'formation' was the product of natural processes.
    They arranged for their individual genetic material required for conception to get in close enough proximity for the process to happen. Look it up on the internet. It's everywhere. I believe that the moderators would frown on the posting of visual aids at this point. :)
    Please cite the biology textbook where you got that idea from.
    Do you think biological reproduction involves magic?
    A monkey and billions of years would probably just give you a dead monkey. What are you talking about?
     
  5. toolmanjantzi

    toolmanjantzi Veteran

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    As a dad I warn my children of hell. I call that Love. God being a father, thought it important that he told fathers that also.

    The same as they were when your species bred outside of their species during the billion year reign of EVILUTION.

    Same as there was need for RNA, DNA and a GENE for evolution to work.

    I thought you said you were a father? Why do you teach your children anything; why not let nature take its course. Did you know if you were to open a cocoon at the very point the butterfly was fully developed it would not survive because it wasn't strong enough. Since you didn't allow it to struggle it's way out and strengthen.

    If your explanation for fertilization is based on 50 to 100 million sperms swimming with no object in mind explain to me why swim at all? If evolution evolved as a need was required; why not have the sperm come out of the mouth, as almost all species put their mouths there first, if not their noses.

    Reminds me, if RNA, DNA, and a gene have no purpose in mind, or reason to do what they do; what makes you think they came together to form anything.
     
  6. toolmanjantzi

    toolmanjantzi Veteran

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    Your soul; my pride.
     
  7. toolmanjantzi

    toolmanjantzi Veteran

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    Evolution and Pizza, 7 more to go.
     
  8. toolmanjantzi

    toolmanjantzi Veteran

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    If oxygen, a electrical charge, and fluids is all we need to sustain life, why can't we create life? is it not true the heart of a fetus begins to beat around three weeks, yet it's not known How? ( I would like to know)
     
  9. CarlosTomy

    CarlosTomy New Member

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    Pride is a sin. Unlike the soul which is a metaphorical construct. :p

    But if you want to talk Pascal's wager, do you think God wants people to believe in him simply because it is less "dangerous" than not believing in him?

    I always thought God only wanted our LOVE.

    Guess lip service is good enough, then?
     
  10. OllieFranz

    OllieFranz Senior Member

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    I did not say that science is notthe absolute truth, I just said that no scientist is arrogant enough to claim that it is. Also notice the word "absolute." That is an important part of the thought. The statement is more about attitude than objective knowledge.

    As for your first question, I don't think anyone has answered it satisfactorily in the last 2000 years. I won't pretend that I can.
     
  11. gradyll

    gradyll Regular Member

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    ok so you don't want to give us the names of transitions you believe in? What are you scared of? It simply generates discussion. I could slap a few down but it would be a waste of time if you particularly don't adhere to them.
     
  12. toolmanjantzi

    toolmanjantzi Veteran

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    Not sure what your getting at, but pride is a sin, so is arrogance, boastfulness and self-pity. As for your explanation of the soul; that is not provable from your perspective.

    God doesn't ask for our belief in him. God tells us the truth and allows us to believe in him. It's not by my will but His will. I must die to self, and He must live inside me.

    You are not capable of real love. God is Love and therefore its his love that is perfect.

    I have no clue what Pascal wagered, please tell me.
     
  13. toolmanjantzi

    toolmanjantzi Veteran

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    Thanks for your honesty.
     
  14. CarlosTomy

    CarlosTomy New Member

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    But it is not my task to prove the existence of the soul.

    Then you may wish to become more familiar with Christian thought! There's a great deal of famous philosophers who have written in support of Christianity over the millennia.

    I recommend reading more roundly in your faith.
     
  15. gradyll

    gradyll Regular Member

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    He wants our love and our worship. We can believe in him as savior but He must also be our Lord. To repent of our sin and believe in Jesus' sacrifice is the Gospel.
     
  16. gradyll

    gradyll Regular Member

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    Thats easy, God is our Creator. Thats it, you just wanted a definition of God. And since we have never proved abiogenesis, the only other option is that someone created us. (as opposed to nothing exploding). Falsifiable? Yeah sure. It could also be that nothing exploded. What would you believe?
     
  17. lasthero

    lasthero Newbie

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    That's not really a definition. That doesn't actually tell us anything about God's properties.

    False dichotomy.

    Strawman.

    You can't falsify gods.
     
  18. gradyll

    gradyll Regular Member

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    I changed my comment to "creator" as my definition. Same thing, falsifiable and provable beyond a reasonable doubt.
     
  19. lasthero

    lasthero Newbie

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    Your change doesn't actually fix the problem. It still tells me nothing about God's properties, just that he creates things. It doesn't make him falsifiable, and it sure as shooting doesn't 'prove him beyond a reasonable doubt'.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  20. gradyll

    gradyll Regular Member

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    So I ask an athiest, " are you sure there is no God."

    not really He says,

    then I say you are not an athiest but an agnostic.

    then I ask what kind of agnostic are you?

    the ornery kind or the ordinary kind?

    the ordinary kind says - "we don't know anything for sure

    the ornery kind says - "we CAN'T know anything for sure

    Then He says "I am the ornery kind."

    Then I say, "if you can't know any thing for sure how do you know THAT for sure?"

    "In other words how do you know for sure that you can't know anything for sure?"

    You can't be skeptical about everything, that means you would doubt skepticism.

    The more you doubt skepticism the more sure you become.

    then He says I guess I am the ordinary kind.


    (above dialogue from Norman Geisler-I don't have enough faith to be an athiest)
     
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