Amil Theory/Preterist theory

shturt678s

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Im saying, what are our works contrasted against to determine there value/detriment?

Rev.20:12, "judged....according to their works." On the last day, however since you do care:

righteousness.

That is Christ Jesus, who is God, and God is perfect, is he not?

The Scriptures (Bible redefined) speaks of two judgments; one that is forensic and secret and occurs now during the earthly life, and at death (where most usurp this judgment to get people into heaven so the money and land keeps coming in - how much money and land is enough?), the other that is public and occurs at the last day before the whole universe, ie, including secret sins. :blush: :sorry:

I've been promulgating the former for over 3 decades and experience shows all the inconvenint and uncomfortable former will have to be rejected which is o.k. so I don't have the 'big one'. ;)

Old Jack
 
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Jipsah

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And yet after all that you can't tell the difference between the things which are and the things which shall be hereafter.
Still tying to figger out whether sacrifice really ceased or not? <Haw Haw Haw>

We knew that.
 
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O

Old Timer

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Still tying to figger out whether sacrifice really ceased or not? <Haw Haw Haw>

We knew that.

Not at all.. I think it's pretty obvious.. just as obvious as the things which shall be hereafter..

Again, those little things..

Like the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ..

Like the coming of Christ and the resurrection of the dead..

The marriage of the Lamb to His wife..

The destruction of the man of sin by the brightness of His coming.

The Lord sitting upon the throne of His glory along with His Apostles sitting upon thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel..in the regeneration..

The times of refreshing which shall come from the presence of the LORD and the restitution of all things..

I know.. I know..

All fairy tales..

I'll go lay down..
 
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Shocker

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I can forget about being a Lutheran, however I cannot forget about the "Book of Concord"......Translated Bibles are the root cause due to their interpretative nature by default.

Ok, I don't know what the "book of concord" is, but if its not the Bible, its not Gods word. Like the book of Mormon, there is no need for anything other than the Holy Bible.

Secondly, the translation argument is kinda like a catch all..

Over and over the Bible has been translated in English, and every time, while there may be a few differences, we end up with the same doctrine.

If you keep an exhaustive lexicon of both Hebrew and Greek, and are linguistically savvy, you can translate the Bible for yourself, but often you are only going to end up with the same thing it says in English, nearly verbatim, just in the native language.

If you want the most word for word literal translation, use the NASB..


As if God was so careless that he let people who only had access to his word in English, have the wrong scripture..


That doesn't make any sense.
 
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Shocker

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The Scriptures (Bible redefined) speaks of two judgments; one that is forensic and secret and occurs now during the earthly life, and at death (where most usurp this judgment to get people into heaven so the money and land keeps coming in - how much money and land is enough?), the other that is public and occurs at the last day before the whole universe, ie, including secret sins. :blush: :sorry:
Old Jack


Can you point this out in scripture?

thx
 
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Bible2

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parousia70 said in post 153:

Yet genetics have everything to do with the Levitical priesthood, and since no "Jew" alive today can trace their ancestry with any kind of objective proof to Aaron, no Jew alive today can meet the requirements of the Law to become a Temple Priest.

This is no accident. This was ordained by God to be the case today, furthur affirming that turning back to the Law, and temple, and animal sacrifices for atonement of sins is NO LONGER part of His redemptive plan for Humanity, for He rendered such a modern day turning IMPOSSIBLE.

Many of the Jews alive today could be genetic Jews. And even though there are no genealogical records to prove which Jewish males alive today are descended from Aaron and so could serve as priests (Exodus 29:9), unclean spirits could have this knowledge and pass it on to a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah". For unclean spirits can pass on to unbelievers true knowledge (Acts 16:16-18), just as they can give unbelievers miraculous powers (Matthew 24:24; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

Also, while the church as a whole is now the temple of God (Ephesians 2:21), it's not the only temple of God. For it coexists with the literal temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and with the temple of Jesus' individual human body (John 2:21), and with the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Corinthians 6:19). And if the church-as-a-whole temple can currently coexist with all these other temples of God, it will be able to coexist with the future, 3rd-earthly-literal temple building which Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 show will exist in Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple building will be accepted by God as a valid temple, just as the 2nd temple building was accepted by God as a valid temple, even at the time of Jesus' first coming (Matthew 23:21), and even at the time of the early church (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17).

For the ultra-Orthodox Jews will build the 3rd temple, and they will offer animal sacrifices in front of it, under the auspices of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, which remains holy before God (Romans 7:12). That's why God still keeps an ark of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in his temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and why it was possible for the apostle Paul one time to involve himself with the 2nd temple's Old Covenant Mosaic law practices without him committing sin (Acts 21:20-26; 1 Corinthians 9:20). This isn't to say the Jesus-denying motives of the ultra-Orthodox Jews will be holy before God, but that the Old-Covenant-Mosaic-law 3rd temple in itself and its animal sacrifices in themselves will be holy before God because the Old Covenant Mosaic law in itself remains holy before God (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6), because the New Covenant has been inaugurated by Jesus and his once-for-all-time sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28).
 
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shturt678s

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Ok, I don't know what the "book of concord" is, but if its not the Bible, its not Gods word. Like the book of Mormon, there is no need for anything other than the Holy Bible.

Apprciate your candid response, and only not grasping the interpretive nature of all translations by definition of being translations, ie, Book of Concord interprets the Bible for me in the ballpark (secondary to the Scriptures), and you personally interpret the Bible your way.

Bible translations need to be interpreted God's way (IIPet.1:20, 21 - Scriptura ex Scriptura explicand est - Scriptures explain Scriptures thus the Holy Spirit interprets). Our Lord set ICor.12:10 before us, ie, interpret going from the ancient languages forward to the English.

Secondly, the translation argument is kinda like a catch all..

Most today allow the Text to interpret the Text using Lexicons, Interlinears, and etc. including our most esteemed scholars and Christian think-tankers of today. The solution to the problem is simple, allow the context interpret the context using the same former tools.

Over and over the Bible has been translated in English, and every time, while there may be a few differences, we end up with the same doctrine.

With a few clicks you can do what took me months in the Libraries long ago, ie, Google up the latest gov't Census on Religions, and see the diverse statements especially in the essentials, ie, diverse doctrines where each think they have the one valid one, ie, including me? All due to the interpretive nature of all translations.

If you keep an exhaustive lexicon of both Hebrew and Greek, and are linguistically savvy, you can translate the Bible for yourself, but often you are only going to end up with the same thing it says in English, nearly verbatim, just in the native language.
If you want the most word for word literal translation, use the NASB..

Perfect example of allowing the text interpret the text? :blush: :confused: First and foremost Text without Context is Pretext, correct?

As if God was so careless that he let people who only had access to his word in English, have the wrong scripture..


That doesn't make any sense.

God set up the one valid way to allow the Context to interpret the Context dealing with interpretive Bible translations.

Old lower paygrade Jack
 
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shturt678s

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Can you point this out in scripture?

thx

Rev.20:4, "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And (I saw) the souls of those...." - bodiless souls of who we really are. There are two groups here, ie, the martyrs and the Saints = living souls.

The purpose of this vision is to reveal to John and to us the royal exaltation, the power of every martyr, and of every faithful believer when each souls enters heaven upon passing from Adam forward till the end to time. The other souls enter hell of course immediately after passing. The former is a secret and forensic judgment from heaven upon each passing.

On the last day, ie, the "1" Parousia, one will either be sitting on the left or the right awaiting the final public judgment.

Old Jack's view
 
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ViaCrucis

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Yet genetics have everything to do with the Levitical priesthood, and since no "Jew" alive today can trace their ancestry with any kind of objective proof to Aaron, no Jew alive today can meet the requirements of the Law to become a Temple Priest.

I don't know about objective proof, but the actual genetics show that many of those who have traditionally traced their lineage as kohanim share a common genetic marker, indicating common descent from a single individual. This individual has been nicknamed Y-chromosomal Aaron.

Y-chromosomal Aaron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So actual genetic evidence would indicate that such theories such as the Khazar theory to be bogus, and actually show both that many traditional kohanim do share a common ancestor, and other studies show a common semitic background for Jewish populations the globe over.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Notrash

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Rev.20:12, "judged....according to their works." On the last day, however since you do care:
The Scriptures (Bible redefined) speaks of two judgments; one that is forensic and secret and occurs now during the earthly life, and at death (where most usurp this judgment to get people into heaven so the money and land keeps coming in - how much money and land is enough?), the other that is public and occurs at the last day before the whole universe, ie, including secret sins. :blush: :sorry:
I've been promulgating the former for over 3 decades and experience shows all the inconvenint and uncomfortable former will have to be rejected which is o.k. so I don't have the 'big one'. ;)

Old Jack

What if "the last day" wasn't referring to the last day of the universe and so on but the lsst day of the law of sin/death?

In John 6 Jesus said that he would raise up the faithful on the last day. In the context of the last day he excludes judas. After Jesus ks resurrected he comes back to those who had believed in his deity, authority and so forth and 'raised them up by vindiating them privately for their faith in him. But judas who had other goals and visions for a social reform, was not vindicated.

As there was a private raising up and approving of that way and the truth of the creator of life; so also there would be a public raising up, vindication and open approval of those who later held to his truths.

They were raised up at the last day of the law of mises and after the war against the saints.



.
 
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Shocker

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Apprciate your candid response, and only not grasping the interpretive nature of all translations by definition of being translations, ie, Book of Concord interprets the Bible for me in the ballpark (secondary to the Scriptures), and you personally interpret the Bible your way.

Bible translations need to be interpreted God's way (IIPet.1:20, 21 - Scriptura ex Scriptura explicand est - Scriptures explain Scriptures thus the Holy Spirit interprets). Our Lord set ICor.12:10 before us, ie, interpret going from the ancient languages forward to the English.



Most today allow the Text to interpret the Text using Lexicons, Interlinears, and etc. including our most esteemed scholars and Christian think-tankers of today. The solution to the problem is simple, allow the context interpret the context using the same former tools.



With a few clicks you can do what took me months in the Libraries long ago, ie, Google up the latest gov't Census on Religions, and see the diverse statements especially in the essentials, ie, diverse doctrines where each think they have the one valid one, ie, including me? All due to the interpretive nature of all translations.



Perfect example of allowing the text interpret the text? :blush: :confused: First and foremost Text without Context is Pretext, correct?



God set up the one valid way to allow the Context to interpret the Context dealing with interpretive Bible translations.

Old lower paygrade Jack


So your contention is that modern translations are missing context preserved in the original text?

This has been disputed and found to be a pretty weak argument.. The mechanics of Greek almost require a more dynamic approach to translating and context is preserved even in this way..

I still prefer the literal translations..

From word for word to dynamic goes something like this..

literal <NASB, ESV, KJV, NKJV, NIV, NLT>dynamic

There are no doctrinal differences in these translations when contrasted with the native languages.
 
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parousia70

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I don't know about objective proof, but the actual genetics show that many of those who have traditionally traced their lineage as kohanim share a common genetic marker, indicating common descent from a single individual. This individual has been nicknamed Y-chromosomal Aaron.

Y-chromosomal Aaron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So actual genetic evidence would indicate that such theories such as the Khazar theory to be bogus, and actually show both that many traditional kohanim do share a common ancestor, and other studies show a common semitic background for Jewish populations the globe over.

-CryptoLutheran

These "Cohanim" claims were thoroughly debunked long ago by Geneticist Dr. Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin, Ph.D. Dr. Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin | LinkedIn in his article "Are today's Jewish priests descended from the old ones?" published in the German journal "HOMO: Journal of Comparative Human Biology - Zeitschrift fuer vergleichende Biologie des Menschen" (volume 51, no. 2-3, 2000, pp. 156-162). :

* The Cohen modal haplotype is the most common haplotype among
Southern Italians*1, Central Italians*2, Hungarians*3, and Iraqi
Kurds*4, and is also found among many Armenians*5 and South African
Lembas*6. This calls into question the notion that the haplotype
originated with the ancient Israelites and that it was found mostly
among ancient Jewish priests.

Preliminary genetic studies of mtDNA (from maternal ancestries) have
already demonstrated the connections between Jewish populations and
non-Jewish populations.

There are additionally many hundreds of thousands of converts to Judaism
living in the present time. The only common denominator binding all
Jewish groups and individuals together is religion. Separately,
legitimate doubts have been raised about the conclusions of Ariella
Oppenheim et al. and Harry Ostrer et al. that Jews are most closely
related to populations like the Palestinians and Lebanese and that they
have only small amounts of descent from conversions and intermarriages.
Historical, anthropological, ethnographic, and genetic evidence does not
support the contention that Jews are a homogeneous ethnicity.
 
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shturt678s

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So your contention is that modern translations are missing context preserved in the original text?

You receive an "A," ie, very esteemed Bible scholars at prestigious Seminaries long ago responed with "Jack, I didn't understand a word you said." I'll raise the bar a little, ie, even if we had the inerrant, infallible, and inspired original Autographs before us, it would still need a contextual interpretation. Bible translations are even more interpretive to the point that Jesus = / = God or Jesus = God for example.

Once we understand there is an issue then the Holy Spirit can work and we are no longer a part of the problem, but a part of the solution of course. :thumbsup:

This has been disputed and found to be a pretty weak argument..

Weak argument when there are approximate 22 diverse 'Statements of Faith" and "born again," eg, you and I have extreme different ways of being "born again, throughout the world per the latest Gov't Census where each think they have the "1" valid way, ie, God's means of grace - glad we're agreeing to disagree again, ie, a heart condition sort of thing. ;)

The mechanics of Greek almost require a more dynamic approach to translating and context is preserved even in this way..

Again, approaching any interpretation going from the ancient langauges FORWARD to the English, ie, no rocket science here.

I still prefer the literal translations..

From word for word to dynamic goes something like this..

literal <NASB, ESV, KJV, NKJV, NIV, NLT>dynamic

There are no doctrinal differences in these translations when contrasted with the native languages.

Bible Texts are 94-96% accurate which is miraculous great, ie, however the Context is a different creature. :confused:

Old Jack again back to agreeing to disagree, ie, now my heart back to sinus :cool:
 
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