Amil Theory/Preterist theory

[Shocker]

Amils believe Daniels 70 weeks run consecutive, which puts the destruction of the 2nd temple within 7 years of Chirsts death, at the latest 40ad.

We know the Temple was destroyed in 70ad.

So they have a contradictory doctrine, because Christ was crucified in or around 30-33ad. That means that according to people like Ebedmelech, the last week, which runs consecutive to the first 69 would have to have ended before 40ad.


Im still not sure what preterists believe, they all say different things depending on the time of the day.. Daniels 70th week according to them was fulfilled by 70ad. Where as Amils say it must have been finished by 40ad.

But the prophecy of the destruction of the Temple comes after the 69th week, before the covenant is made.

If anyone can point me to a central preterist doctrine, Id love to see it.

 

[Shocker]

Any amils wanna expound on this objective contradiction in their doctrine?

Anyone?

 

[parousia70]

There is no "Central Futurist Doctrine" either... Pre trib, post trib, mid trib...pre mil post mil....none of you can agree with eachother about much of anything.... So why you require something from preterists that you do not require from your fellow futurists only serves to highlight your own lack of cohesion.

That said, if you really are honestly searching for a preterists hermeneutic, try bereanbiblechurch.org. Good place to start IMO.

 

[Shocker]

There is no "Central Futurist Doctrine" either... Pre trib, post trib, mid trib...pre mil post mil....none of them can agree with eachother about much of anything.... So why you require something g from preterists that you do not squire from your fellow futurists only serves to highlight your own lack of cohesion.

That said, if you really are honestly searching for a preterists hermeneutic, try bereanbiblechurch.org. Good place to start IMO.

I am not a futurist.

I am a Christian.

A true "protestant" as in I "protest" all of you.

(protestants, catholics, and whatever else you guys call yourselves other than the only name we can truly be called, which is Christian)


You were taught your doctrine, I am self taught in scripture, free of the contamination rife in what you guys call "Christian churches".

Big difference..

You are all off if you ask me, dispensationalists included..

 

[Interplanner]

Check NT Wright's material, sermons and lectures online at his site. He is the leading evangelical scholar in England at present.

There does not have to be precision in the prophecy. You have to prove that. The Father decided not to have the Return happen at the end of the DofJ, as indicated, and there is no reason why he could not have waited for Israel to correct itself.

You don't pay much attention to what's been said, so it is hard to keep giving you pointers.

 

[Shocker]

The problem with futurists is that they get it right up until Daniels 70th week..

Then they seem to lose all hope in uniting a front for truth, and instead, quibble over the "rapture" or what disastrous events will happen in what order..

They are the doing the same thing the preterists do among themselves.

Its pointless..


Christians are supposed to be united by Spirit, Gods Holy Spirit, there is a reason you all disagree..

 

[Shocker]

and there is no reason why he could not have waited for Israel to correct itself.

And that is just what Israel is doing now, coming to correction, as God ordained.

Prophecy is precise. Its objective because its from God. Its going to happen just as he says it will..

 

[Interplanner]

But I'm sure that whatever 'pure' treatment you put out will be disputed also.

One thing we know is that very few people know what happened in the 6th decade, the end of the generation that saw Jesus.

 

[Shocker]

But I'm sure that whatever 'pure' treatment you put out will be disputed also.

One thing we know is that very few people know what happened in the 6th decade, the end of the generation that saw Jesus.

The temple was destroyed, the Jews were scattered..

Just like every time before they got out of line.

The reason for the 2000 year banishment from Israel is because they didn't simply sin this time, they crucified the Messiah.

That is why the Jews have been being punished for so long..

They did there time, and God led them back to the land of Israel, and even gave them back Jerusalem.

 

[Interplanner]

Just to try to give that context (about waiting for Israel to correct itself) it meant: God could have brought the destruction predicted in Dan 9 immediately after the crucifixion, however, as he said in several ways, he is longsuffering. There were so close calls, but there were also statements by Jesus that that generation would see all these things fulfilled. That's why so much happened and why nothing need happen in modern Israel now.

Therefore I have no problem with God waiting from soon after the crucifixion to the 6th decade before saying 'that does it.' Even in the early 40s when Thessalonians was written, Paul was already saying it's over, totally over. But God 'tarries'--wants to give people time to repent. So the DofJ didn't happen until 69, and the Jewish Christians kept appealing to their people until that point.

What training or background do you have Mr. Shock?

 

[Shocker]

What training or background do you have Mr. Shock?

I am self taught in scripture, free of institutionalized Christianity.


You guys call yourselves funny names, Lutherans, Baptists, Catholics, ect...

I am none of those, I am simply a Christian, a man who read the words of Christ and received salvation.

I only consort with Christians, not those who call themselves Christians.

 

[ebedmelech]

Amils believe Daniels 70 weeks run consecutive, which puts the destruction of the 2nd temple within 7 years of Chirsts death, at the latest 40ad.

We know the Temple was destroyed in 70ad.

So they have a contradictory doctrine, because Christ was crucified in or around 30-33ad. That means that according to people like Ebedmelech, the last week, which runs consecutive to the first 69 would have to have ended before 40ad.


Im still not sure what preterists believe, they all say different things depending on the time of the day.. Daniels 70th week according to them was fulfilled by 70ad. Where as Amils say it must have been finished by 40ad.

But the prophecy of the destruction of the Temple comes after the 69th week, before the covenant is made.

If anyone can point me to a central preterist doctrine, Id love to see it.

Once again your failure to understand scripture looms large because the 70 weeks run consecutively.

It has nothing to do with the temple whatsoever. As for a "central preterist doctrine"...once again eschatology is not a "doctrine".

 

[Shocker]

Once again your failure to understand scripture looms large because the 70 weeks run consecutively.

It has nothing to do with the temple whatsoever. As for a "central preterist doctrine"...once again eschatology is not a "doctrine".

Sorry, but if they ran consecutive, that would be much longer than 490 years in order to say that it was fulfilled in 70ad.

Your theory is wrong because God says so, no me..

 

[ebedmelech]

Sorry, but if they ran consecutive, that would be much longer than 490 years in order to say that it was fulfilled in 70ad.

Your theory is wrong because God says so, no me..

Quite incorrect! No one ever said it was fulfilled in 70 AD...the temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

The seventy weeks end with the stoning of Stephen...Jesus dies of the cross in the middle of the 70 weeks.

 

[Shocker]

Quite incorrect! No one ever said it was fulfilled in 70 AD...the temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

The seventy weeks end with the stoning of Stephen...Jesus dies of the cross in the middle of the 70 weeks.

So what date is that ebed..

humor me.

Or do you know?

 

[ebedmelech]

So what date is that ebed..

humor me.

Or do you know?

Jesus died in 30 AD, Stephen was stoned in 33 AD. There are differing views of the dating of these events though.

 

[Shocker]

Jesus died in 30 AD, Stephen was stoned in 33 AD. There are differing views of the dating of these events though.

Even still, the prophecy states the temple and Jerusalem would fall during the 490 years.


If you were correct, then the temple couldn't have fallen in 70ad.

The start of the 490 years began in 457bc.

Even if the 70weeks were consecutive, that would mean the temple fell before 70ad, 34ad to be exact.

You have a contradiction to address.

 

[Interplanner]

There is no clear passage that anything is supposed to happen after the DofJ, except through the work of the Gospel (their ministry in it) which was already going on.

I think you read the treatment of Rom 11 but don't recall any specific objections. Just a wholesale dismissal.

 

[Old Timer]

There is no clear passage that anything is supposed to happen after the DofJ, except through the work of the Gospel (their ministry in it) which was already going on.

I think you read the treatment of Rom 11 but don't recall any specific objections. Just a wholesale dismissal.

The ancient texts of the OT have already told us the story.. Even the end... right from the beginning..

Joseph is a perfect picture of what happened thematically..

Loved by his father and yet hated by his own brethren. The one who was sold to the Gentiles and left for dead.. and was considered dead by the deception of his coat dipped in blood.

And we know the story..

That wasn't the end at all.. Joseph's brethren might have thought that it was all over but they were in for a remarkable awakening.. even being led to repentance and then saved in that day..

Jacob learned in the end that the son of his old age was alive and well.. ruler over all.

 

[Shocker]

The ancient texts of the OT have already told us the story.. Even the end... right from the beginning..

Joseph is a perfect picture of what happened thematically..

Loved by his father and yet hated by his own brethren. The one who was sold to the Gentiles and left for dead.. and was considered dead by the deception of his coat dipped in blood.

And we know the story..

That wasn't the end at all.. Joseph's brethren might have thought that it was all over but they were in for a remarkable awakening.. even being led to repentance and then saved in that day..

Jacob learned in the end that the son of his old age was alive and well.. ruler over all.

They haven't figured out that the Book of Daniel is the same events described in Revelation.

Both Jews and Gentiles can determine what is coming based on these books..

Christians use both, Jews use Daniel, both are the same event..