America needs to start reform with getting rid of the "rubber rooms" as well.

[tulc]

Not at all. I'm simply pointing out the hypocricy of someone from the left attacking based on integrity. The left has more than it's share of Brietbarts, it's just that many of them happen to be in the national media.

Well, if we make a rule people can only point out someone else's hypocrisy when we've eliminated all hypocrisy in those on our side these forums are going to be very very quiet.
tulc(just sayn')

 

[tulc]

Except for the fact that the original claim about Brietbart was a false assuption or conclusion. Liberals still have no integrity.

How about you prove the claim about Brietbart?

Isn't the claim (actual video) that doctors were handing out 'Doctor's Notes' for the people that decided they would skip work and demand not to have to tighten thier belts, an actual provable fact now?

Brietbart really doesn't belong in this discussion other then Alinsky #5...

uhmmm my point wasn't about the film maker, the point was the irony of someone demanding someone supply proof in support of a claim, all the while not supplying proof for a claim.
tulc(suspects that may well be the most convulated sentence he's posted)

 

[religious&reasonable]

For the first time in history, I agree with Herbie. Teacher's unions need to be banned. They do more harm than good.

 

[tulc]

For the first time in history, I agree with Herbie. Teacher's unions need to be banned. They do more harm than good.

uhmmm No, not really.
tulc(doesn't like the idea of people not being allowed to unionize)

 

[DaisyDay]

For the first time in history, I agree with Herbie. Teacher's unions need to be banned. They do more harm than good.

A history of 7 days? That's not really impressive.

People have the right to bargain collectively - Rights We Protect | NLRB This is all part of the "blame the teachers" jag.

The warehoused teachers can be put to work outside the classroom or in adult ed, but it is MANAGEMENT'S DECISION not to. Yet you all prefer to blame the teachers.

 

[Veritas]

anyone else find this a somewhat ironic statement when followed by this:


uhmmm? anything to backup this?
tulc(is just a guy who tends to spot irony every now and then)

You could have easily found this yourself and saved yourself from eating crow.

Public School Cover-Up | News | NCRegister.com

“The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests,” concluded the study’s author, professor Carol Shakeshaft of Hofstra University."

How many Catholic priests are paid by the taxpayers? How many belong to a public employee union or any union for that matter?

 

[tulc]

You could have easily found this yourself and saved yourself from eating crow.

Public School Cover-Up | News | NCRegister.com

“The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests,” concluded the study’s author, professor Carol Shakeshaft of Hofstra University."

How many Catholic priests are paid by the taxpayers? How many belong to a public employee union or any union for that matter?

uhmm missed the point altogether huh?
tulc(has eaten crow before, but wont have to this time)

 

[Ton80]

You could have easily found this yourself and saved yourself from eating crow.

Public School Cover-Up | News | NCRegister.com

“The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests,” concluded the study’s author, professor Carol Shakeshaft of Hofstra University."

How many Catholic priests are paid by the taxpayers? How many belong to a public employee union or any union for that matter?

Many sexual predators are drawn to jobs where there is easy access, so it is not a far stretch to say that sexual predators are drawn to teaching and the priesthood.

Considering there are 3 million (public) teachers to 41,000 priests (approx figures), it is not unreasonable to believe that there are more cases by teachers.

These are just statistical figures.

You present it so sloppily that it appears you want to say teachers are worse, without ever attempting to understand percentages of teacher/student to priest/child.

 

[chaz345]

A history of 7 days? That's not really impressive.

People have the right to bargain collectively - Rights We Protect | NLRB This is all part of the "blame the teachers" jag.

The warehoused teachers can be put to work outside the classroom or in adult ed, but it is MANAGEMENT'S DECISION not to. Yet you all prefer to blame the teachers.

I bet that there are union rules prohibiting them from being put to work outside the classroom and last time I checked very few, if any public school systems had much of an adult education program.

 

[rambot]

How many Catholic priests are paid by the taxpayers? How many belong to a public employee union or any union for that matter?

200% of them. Assuming you are only talking about American diocese American tax payers DO pay their salaries non?
Not only that, but they also pay the church tax, commonly known as tithes.

But you don't find teacher's molesting students at all offensive. Interesting.

I didn't find his being cleared of all charges offensive no. Is that really that interesting?

 

[DaisyDay]

I bet that there are union rules prohibiting them from being put to work outside the classroom and last time I checked very few, if any public school systems had much of an adult education program.

And I bet there aren't. When was the last time you checked? NY, the state with the rubber rooms, does. Even if you were right and your state doesn't have much of one, there is still one and they would still need teachers.

 

[chaz345]

And I bet there aren't. When was the last time you checked? NY, the state with the rubber rooms, does. Even if you were right and your state doesn't have much of one, there is still one and they would still need teachers.

But is the adult education program a part of the public school system or is it a different program with different funding sources? Most adult education programs that I know of are run and paid for by the state, most, if not all public schools are run by the city or town. Teachers aren't state employees they are city employees.Not only that but someone who is entirely qualified to teach kids, especially younger ones is not necessarily qualified or capable of teaching adults.



As for rules restricting being assigned to non-classroom activities:

http://www.terry.uga.edu/~mustard/courses/e4250/Unions-AJPS.pdf

 

[Spirko]

Teachers Unions: The Child Molester’s Best Friend - Big Journalism



The most vile of them all. Sick people that search and destroy the children.



Teacher's Unions should be banned.

Yet another reason I don't believe in tenure for government school teachers or hiring unionized teachers.

 

[chaz345]

Yet another reason I don't believe in tenure for government school teachers or hiring unionized teachers.

Seniority in the union sense is a definite part of why schools are not as good as they could be. When faced with cuts, the union forces the youngest teachers to be laid off first. While common sense would suggest that you'd want to keep your most experienced teachers, my experience, both in school as a student and in the school where I work(tech guy not a teacher) would suggest that some of the least effective teachers out there are the ones that have burned out and are just biding their time for another 3 or 4 years till retirement.

 

[Romanseight2005]

I agree. There are some well experienced teachers who are awesome, yet there are others who seem to have lost their love for the kids. On the other hand, you have some young teachers who don't seem interested, and some who are awesome teachers.

 

[chaz345]

I agree. There are some well experienced teachers who are awesome, yet there are others who seem to have lost their love for the kids. On the other hand, you have some young teachers who don't seem interested, and some who are awesome teachers.

Exactly. I didn't mean to imply that the only problem teachers were ones who had been around for a long time. But as it is now the only criteria used is length of employment. It's the only thing used to give raises and it's the only thing used to determine who get's laid off. That's wrong.

 

[wpage]

Ronald Reagan put public employee unions to the test when he fired PATCO workers when they struck.

 

[DaisyDay]

But is the adult education program a part of the public school system or is it a different program with different funding sources? Most adult education programs that I know of are run and paid for by the state, most, if not all public schools are run by the city or town. Teachers aren't state employees they are city employees.Not only that but someone who is entirely qualified to teach kids, especially younger ones is not necessarily qualified or capable of teaching adults.



As for rules restricting being assigned to non-classroom activities:

http://www.terry.uga.edu/~mustard/courses/e4250/Unions-AJPS.pdf

Your link doesn't have anything concerning rules restricting being assigned to non-classroom activities. Did you read it?

It had a strong anti-union bias evident in both the preface and conclusion. The relevant part of the conclusion was that teachers' rights tended (but not strongly) to affect achievement in minority schools. These rights included more experienced teachers getting their preference in teaching assignments, so the inexperienced teachers got stuck in the dangerous, ill-equipped "bad" schools.

 

[chaz345]

Your link doesn't have anything concerning rules restricting being assigned to non-classroom activities. Did you read it?

It had a strong anti-union bias evident in both the preface and conclusion. The relevant part of the conclusion was that teachers' rights tended (but not strongly) to affect achievement in minority schools. These rights included more experienced teachers getting their preference in teaching assignments, so the inexperienced teachers got stuck in the dangerous, ill-equipped "bad" schools.

I did read it. Apparently you didn't as evidenced by this paragraph from the article near the top of page 158:

resources, and thus with protecting teacher jobs, attracting
members, and keeping dues money coming in. They
also have induced concerns—contributing to these more
basic objectives—for representing the occupational interests
of their members: in better pay and benefits,
more autonomy, less threatening methods of evaluation,
smaller classes, prohibitions on nonclassroom duties,
fewer course preparations, and other rights and protections.

The overall thrust of the article is not the point, my assertion and your doubting that union rules that prohibit assigning teachers to non-classroom activities is. I work in a school, I know for a fact that such rules are commonplace. So the whole "just assign the teacher to some duty where they don't have contact with the kids" while a great idea in terms of being able to get some value for the teacher's time, is not possible due to union rules.

 

[Veritas]

Many sexual predators are drawn to jobs where there is easy access, so it is not a far stretch to say that sexual predators are drawn to teaching and the priesthood.

Considering there are 3 million (public) teachers to 41,000 priests (approx figures), it is not unreasonable to believe that there are more cases by teachers.

These are just statistical figures.

You present it so sloppily that it appears you want to say teachers are worse, without ever attempting to understand percentages of teacher/student to priest/child.

I won't insult you, but I think you're overlooking a few facts. One, most sexual abuse ocurrs in families, then teachers, psychologists, coaches, etc., then clergy. As a percentage of their numbers, Catholic priest abuse at a rate of 1-3%, less than Protestant pastors, far less than teachers and way, way less than familiy members. I'm going to challenge you to find that information yourself. Why? Because YOU want to make priests out to be bigger abusers than anybody.

Secondly, the whole point of the OP is that it is the unions that protect these abusing teachers. I asked a relevant question regarding priests and unions and being paid by the taxpayers. You didn't even address that.