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Amendment Protects Religious Liberty of Military Members

Discussion in 'OBOB General Politics Forum' started by Michie, May 16, 2012.

  1. Michie

    Michie Manipulation Resistance Team Supporter

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    The Fiscal Year 2013 defense-authorization bill says that the armed forces 'shall accommodate the conscience and sincerely held moral principles and religious beliefs' of its members regarding 'the appropriate and inappropriate expression of human sexuality.'


    Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/#ixzz1v5fnt4qC
     
  2. KatherineS

    KatherineS New Member

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    This is great. It means any military member can disobey any order if he says it conflicts with his religion. This will be the first step to disbanding the military.
     
  3. Vasallus

    Vasallus New Member

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    LOL - you're funny.
     
  4. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote

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    My instinct is that the purported threat to chaplains' rights to preach the message of their faiths is greatly exaggerated.

    And that this amendment is another diversionary tactic that keeps Congress from focusing on their real responsibilities.
     
  5. Vasallus

    Vasallus New Member

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    If they're going to allow all this diversity - fine. But Christians should not be forced to accept it when it goes against the Bible, the Church, thousands of years of history and their own personal beliefs.
     
  6. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

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    It's about time somebody stood up to this onslaught.

    Katherine, how many years did you serve in the military?
     
  7. KatherineS

    KatherineS New Member

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    Suppose someone gives us an example of what this alleged denial of religious liberty is? The right to live in a world without gay people? Tough luck, I have no sympathy for you.
     
  8. Needing_Grace

    Needing_Grace Chief of Sinners

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    No just the right to speak against, harass, bully and attack homos based on "deeply felt religious convictions."

    Sent from my iPhone using CF
     
  9. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote

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    My husband is a Vietnam vet--I was never in the military.

    My daughter's bf's dad has had PTSD from his Vietnam service for many years. He used to shoot at targets (presumably human) from helicopters.

    I know a little bit about the horrors of war from them--enough to know that 1) working side by side with gay members of the military is not the cause of PTSD; 2) any priest or minister who wants to find moral issues to discuss in homilies or Bible studies in a war zone who can't find anything more relevant to talk about than homosexuality should be given a dishonorable discharge and booted into civilian life; and 3) these men and women need comfort, support, consolation, encouragement, healing, and God's love.

    I could not imagine a single reason for chaplains to obsess over homosexuality--with all the trauma and desperate needs their soldiers face--unless they are emotionally stunted themselves.
     
  10. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

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    Don't forget that military chaplains are responsible for the care of military families and are in charge of the children's CCD and Sunday School as well. (Some even run the Bible Studies and the Bible has some words about it.)
     
  11. KatherineS

    KatherineS New Member

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    Conservative complaints (if taken seriously rather than just their usually attempts to stir up a culture war) may end up being a backdoor route to the long standing desire of many peace-oriented liberals -- taking military service chaplains out of the chain of command and recreating it as a ministry, not as a military rank.
     
  12. isshinwhat

    isshinwhat Pro Deo et Patria

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    Ahem... They are not in the chain of command as you are thinking of it. Let's say a Chaplain who happens to be a Colonel is on the battlefield and gives an order to a Corporal. The Colonel, though he is an officer, has no authority over the young enlisted man because of his status as a Chaplain. In fact, according to the Geneva Conventions a Chaplain is not considered a prisoner of war and must be returned to his home country if not retained to minister to both his fellow countrymen, but anyone who requests it, regardless of nationality. For this reason, a Chaplain is never the Senior Ranking Officer, even if the next highest ranked, non-retained personnel happens to be a private.

    The conscience issue is raised because some bishops' writings have been censored since the chapels themselves are federal facilities, for instance the Army's refusal to allow Archbishop Broglio's letter against the HHS Mandate to be read in Army Chapels (a decision they later admitted was incorrect). The fact is there is confusion and the record needs to be set straight.
     
  13. KatherineS

    KatherineS New Member

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    Chaplains do have military rank. And the criticism of the Archbishop's letter is that it suggested members of the military should take the law into their own hands. The Archbishop apologized for the reference and the military withdrew the obejction. Hardly the basis for a crusade.

    The USA is not a banana republic. The army does not act outside the law.
     
  14. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote

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    Don't you see a disconnect? Maybe the Archbishop spends too much time in an ivory tower. How much of an impact will it make to soldiers worried about bombs, getting shot at, being far from family, with few creature comforts, trying to fulfill their mission while keeping their sanity to get a letter from a bishop saying, "What you should REALLY be worrying about is the HHS mandate."

    Similarly, what impact does a letter from a bishop in an ivory tower, writing to parishioners facing unemployment, no health insurance, etc. telling them, "What you should REALLY be worrying about is gay marriage."

    Yes, let the letter be read....but the reaction will be, "What planet does HE live on?"

    Are we really accomplishing anything?
     
  15. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

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    Fantine, you seem to be forgetting that the chaplain is there to minister to the *souls* of those in the military (and to their families which include children.) If the people under the chaplain's charge lose their souls--their Faith--what good is anything else? And don't forget that the military is fighting for our freedoms--religious freedom included.
     
  16. KatherineS

    KatherineS New Member

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    They are. They would not be if they put themselve above the law and the Constitution. That is treason, not religious freedom.
     
  17. JimR-OCDS

    JimR-OCDS God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love

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    It has nothing to do with disobeying orders, but rather, the right to follow conscience when it comes to issues of marriage and such while serving in the military.

    This is happening here in Massachusetts, as various people and organizations are routinely being sued for not offering services for gay couples.

    Heck, even E-Harmony was sued because they didn't match up gays with each other.

    The persecution is by gay organizations, who have a hatred that is concerning.

    Jim

     
  18. KatherineS

    KatherineS New Member

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    Jim,

    Can you give some real world examples of violation of religious conscience concerning religious liberty and marriage in the military? There have been none that I am aware of and those stokign this fire are vague about their complaints.

    A chaplain can preach as he wishes so long as he does not call for for a military putsch or other illegal rebellion. Any member of the military can have his own opinions as to what is sin and what is virtue. No chaplain can be made to perform any rite or ritual he does not wish to.

    Going around calling other members of the service "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]s" is likely to get you in trouble. Some call that calling sinners to repentence. You want to take up that argument?(*)


    * Hmmmm, seems under the measure used by the OP, this board is denying my "religious freedom. :D
     
  19. JimR-OCDS

    JimR-OCDS God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love

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    KatherineS

    Jim,

    Not yet, for gays serving in the military is a new idea. However, if things follow as they have in the states that now have legalized gay marriages, Chaplins will be prohibited from preaching against homosexual acts. They'll be in violation if they refuse to marry gay couples, etc etc.

    Keep in mind, the Military isn't like civilian life. In the Military, you come under the UCMJ not the US Constitution. If an order is given by a gay commander, that violates the teaching of the Chaplin's particular religion, he'd be forced to comply of face jail time. With this legislation, it protect Chaplins from this sort of insanity, which is sure to come, as it has in the states.


    They're trying to put the law in place before it does.

    Actually he can't have his own opinions. A Chaplain can't preach against a war the unit is engaged in.

    As I'm living in the first state to legalize gay marriage, I have watched first hand what is coming down in way of forcing people to act against their conscience.

    Jim
     
  20. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

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    Indeed----and it's coming from people who are always screaming "tolerance" the loudest.

    Ironic, isn't it?
     
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