All false theoogy or beliefs is an ignoring of sin in some way.

[ZacharyB]

No. The person of Jesus existed even without the physical shell or the temple He entered into.
God did not become an entirely new creation in the Incarnation, my friend.

Sorry, but thou continue to be rather less than open to new concepts
beyond those which thou have accepted as truth.

"The Person of Jesus", as thou calls Him,
was none other than "the Word" made flesh!
Obviously, a Divine Combo of God and human!

He was NEVER called "Jesus" prior to when He was born.
The Baby's name was to be "Jesus (Savior)" according to Gabriel.
Please note:
"The Word" could not be the only part of the Baby called "Jesus" (by Gabriel)
... because this Baby had a human body.
That's why true believers say Jesus was God and human combined.

Doesn't the RCC say the Baby became God?
Totally God ... no longer human?
Hmmmm, it seems to me that Jesus had to eat, drink, deficate, etc.
IMO, this RCC doctrine is ridiculous (like many of their doctrines).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sorry, but thou continue to be rather less than open to new concepts
beyond those which thou have accepted as truth.

"The Person of Jesus", as thou calls Him,
was none other than "the Word" made flesh!
Obviously, a Divine Combo of God and human!

He was NEVER called "Jesus" prior to when He was born.
The Baby's name was to be "Jesus (Savior)" according to Gabriel.
Please note:
"The Word" could not be the only part of the Baby called "Jesus" (by Gabriel)
... because this Baby had a human body.
That's why true believers say Jesus was God and human combined.

Again, did Jesus stop being Jesus when He was in the heart of the Earth for three days and three nights?
I cannot say Jesus can live within a person today?


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[ZacharyB]

Jason, perhaps you responded before I finished my post.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

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Well, Paul says to the believer in 2 Timothy 4:22,

'The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit."​

So is the physically incarnated Jesus Christ going to be with you in spirit? Or is Jesus Christ going to be with you in spirit on a spiritual level?
Did Paul make a mistake here?
Do you think you should inform Paul that He should be referring to the "Word" and not the physically incarnated person of Jesus?

Doesn't the RCC say the Baby became God?
Totally God ... no longer human?
Hmmmm, it seems to me that Jesus had to eat, drink, deficate, etc.
IMO, this RCC doctrine is ridiculous (like many of their doctrines).

Maybe some Catholics. But according to this article here: Catholics erroneously believe Jesus has a human soul.

http://www.catholic.org/clife/jesus/webelieve.php

They believe Jesus has two natures. A divine nature and a human nature.

While Catholics are not saying Jesus is sinful or that he had a sin nature, they believe he was a perfect union of God and man. I do not believe that this is the case. I believe ONLY the body of Adam (From the virgin Mary) was perfectly united with the Holy Son of God. There was no human soul or human spirit being added into the mix.

So yes, the body was 100% and completely human. But on the inside.... it was 100% God. God looks at the heart of a person and not the outward part. In other words, the real you is your personality, a mind, a soul, and a spirit that moves that physical body. The body is just a shell or a temple. Yes, the physical body is real. You can bleed and be bruised and stuff. Jesus had to enter the flesh of a man to pay the price for our sins within HIS body so as to save us. Sin tainted our physical bodies even. But the Holy divine nature of God did not join with a newly created human soul or spirit. In other words, that would be like God creating a person named "Bob" and then joining with "Bob" so as to be a completely new person or entity within the creation. It would be "Bob who united with God" now. Yet, people worshiped Jesus. This could only work if the body was just a temple. In fact, Jesus Himself said the body was a temple.


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[ZacharyB]

Well, Paul says to the believer in 2 Timothy 4:22, 'The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit."
So is the physically incarnated Jesus Christ going to be with you in spirit? Or is Jesus Christ going to be with you in spirit on a spiritual level?
Did Paul make a mistake here?
Do you think you should inform Paul that He should be referring to the "Word" and not the physically incarnated person of Jesus?

Please check John 14, where Jesus says ...
"We" will come and make "Our" abode with the true believer.

I have always claimed ...
IF one has One of the Triune Godhead, he/she has all Three of Them.

That's why we say, the Holy Spirit indwells us, and "Christ in you", etc.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But if Christ is perfectly God on the inside, then how do we explain verses where Jesus did not appear to know certain things like:

Isaiah 7:15
Matthew 27:46
Mark 13:32
Luke 2:52
Luke 22:42

Well, during the Incarnation: Jesus' Omniscience was suppressed so as to be "like" a man in order to be our subsitite and so as to a like figure or type of Adam (Who also was limited in knowledge in the Garden) (See Romans 5).


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[Bible Highlighter]

Please check John 14, where Jesus says ...
"We" will come and make "Our" abode with the true believer.

I have always claimed ...
IF one has One of the Triune Godhead, he/she has all Three of Them.

That's why we say, the Holy Spirit indwells us, and "Christ in you", etc.

No. All three members of the Godhead live within a believer.

The indwelling of God the Father:

Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all (believers)

1 John 4:15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God (the title for His deity) , God abides in him, and he in God.

2 John 1:9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.


The Indwelling of God the Holy Spirit:

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

1 Corinthians 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

Galatians 5:16 ''But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.''


The Indwelling of God the Son:

John 14:20 ''In that day you shall know that I am in the Father, and you in Me, and I in you.''

John 17:22 ''And the glory which Thou hast given Me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as We are one; 23) I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, that the world may know that Thou didst send Me, and didst love them, even as Thou didst love Me.

John 17:26 ''And I have made Thy name known to them, and will make it known; that the love wherewith Thou didst love Me may be in them, and I in them.''

Galatians 2:20 ''I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me...''

Colossians 1:27 ''to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.​

There are more verses, but hopefully this should suffice.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Also, if you believe Jesus is only in reference to the physical incarnated person of Jesus then you cannot believe He is with you in spirit by some kind of spiritual means. That would be proving my case and not yours. You are saying that the person of Jesus is the physically incarnated person of Jesus Christ and cannot refer to the spiritual aspect of the Son of God. Yet, the Bible appears to be saying that very thing. It's why we are to confess that Jesus Christ has come into the flesh. Jesus the person is not just the Incarnated person. Jesus is just one of the many names of the Son of God long before He came into the flesh of a man. It's not like Jesus was a name that had to be picked out shortly before the Incarnation. God knows ..... EVERYTHING at all times. So it is not like one day God the Father said.... "Hey, I think I am going to call my Son.... "JESUS."" God already knows everything thru out all points of Eternity. God is Omniscient (or all knowing). In other words, the name "JESUS" is used to primarily refer to the physically incarnated person of the Son of God but it is not exclusive in that purpose. if that was not the case, then you must believe that Jesus did not exist for three days and three nights.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Also, the proper name Jesus /ˈdʒiːzəs/ used in the English language originates from the Latin form of the Greek name Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous), a rendition of the Hebrew Yeshua (ישוע), also having the variants Joshua or Jeshua. In a religious context the name refers to Jesus.

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[Bible Highlighter]

Also, if Jesus does not live in you, then you do not have life. For the Scriptures say,

"He that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life" (1 John 5:12).

Also, if any man does not abide in Jesus, they are cast forth as a branch and burned so as to be destroyed.

"If a man abides not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
(John 15:6).


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[Bible Highlighter]

This of course all ties back to the point of the topic of the thread where all false theologies are based on some kind of sin in some way. Eternal Security teaches that If Christ does not abide in a person, they can still be saved. However, there is no life outside the Son. If one does not abide in Christ then they are cast forth like a branch into the fire so as to be burned (or destroyed).

For the idea that Christ is not the source of our salvation (whereby He abides in us to give us life) is a sinful one. For a person needs Jesus living within them in order to be saved. If one does not believe that, then folks are simply trying to save themselves (Instead of believing that is God or Christ who is the One who will do the good work in you). We also have access to God the Father by the Son, too. For there is only one mediator between God and man. This is JESUS.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Here are several passages that tell us that you cannot be out of fellowship with God or Christ and be saved.

#1. 1 John 5:12 says He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life. Life is associated with eternal life or salvation.

#2. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).

#3. Romans 8:9 says if he a man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him (Note: This could be in reference to either the Holy Ghost or to the Son of God).

#4. Psalms 73:27 says God will destroy all those who abandon Him (or go a whoring from Him).

#5. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned.

#6. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

#7. Romans 11:21-22 says if you do not continue in his goodness you will be cut off. For if God spared not the natural branches (i.e. the Jews), take heed that he can do the same to you (i.e. Gentile believers). The analogy here is that you are branch and Christ is the tree. We need to continue in Christ's righteousness or goodness, not our own righteousness or goodness, or we will be cut off because of unbelief.


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[ZacharyB]

... how do we explain verses where Jesus did not appear to know certain things ...

I would like to address one point at a time ...

One of the many reasons that the Word came to earth
(notice I didn't say, "Jesus came", because that's nonsense)
was to teach us how to live our lives!

If Jesus prayed to the Father for direction, etc. ...
it might just seem like a good idea for us to do likewise!

If Jesus depended on the Holy Spirit to perform miracles, etc. ...
it might just seem like a good idea for us to do likewise!

This business about Jesus not knowing the day or the hour, etc.
is a mystery to me ... except ...
all Three of the Triune Godhead have different functions!
The Father is in ultimate control of all things
(except the free will of His creations: angels and humans),
and perhaps He just did not (and has not?) reveal(ed) His will
about some things to the other Two Members of the Godhead.

Perhaps our discussions might serve to open yourself up to the
fact that you will NOT be raptured out of the coming disasters!
God's living overcoming remnant will be raptured on the last day
to escape the wrath of God (not the tribulation of the antichrist).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I would like to address one point at a time ...

One of the many reasons that the Word came to earth
(notice I didn't say, "Jesus came", because that's nonsense)

The "Word" is just one of the many names of the Son of God or the Second Person of the Godhead.

You believe the way you do because have been conditioned to believe that way. Therefore you think it is non sense. Again, I ask you, did Jesus stop existing during the time He was in the heart of the Earth for three days and three nights?

How can Jesus be with us in spirit as Paul says 2 Timothy 4:22?
If you say that Jesus connects to you spiritually in that verse, then you are proving my case and you are not proving yours.

Remember, after Satan externally tempted Jesus, the demons then recognized Jesus for who He really was. They asked if He came to punish them before the time.

was to teach us how to live our lives!

While Jesus did come to teach us how to live our lives, His primary mission was to save our life by dying on the cross for our sins and then conquer the punishment for sin (i.e. death) with His resurrection. He also had to ascend to the Father so as to be our Heavenly High Priest (So as to be our mediator between God the Father and man), too. Jesus came to give us life.

If Jesus prayed to the Father for direction, etc. ...
it might just seem like a good idea for us to do likewise!

Jesus is not just our example, but He is also the Savior of the world. Jesus is not just some good moral teacher to lead you to God. Jesus was God Almighty in the flesh who desires to save you by abiding in Him. Then the good fruit of Christ can come forth in your life. For Jesus said you can do nothing without Him.

Also, Jesus was taking on all the sins of the entire world in the Garden of Gethsemane. For all the sins of the world were within the cup. That is why Jesus recoiled and asked the Father if there was another way to do this.

That is why it says in Isaiah that by his stripes (whip marks) we are healed. Jesus took on our sins in the Garden with the cup and the he was wounded for our transgressions, and we are healed by his stripes. Then God the Father laid all the final Judgment of sin upon the Son at the cross whereby He died (thereby paying the wages of sin on our behalf).

If Jesus depended on the Holy Spirit to perform miracles, etc. ...
it might just seem like a good idea for us to do likewise!

No. While Jesus did do miracles by both God the Father and the Holy Spirit, Jesus had power of His own, too.

For during His Earthly ministry: Jesus is God (not in Word only but also in power), as well.

1. Jesus said He was going to raise up the temple (his body) three days later (John 2:19-20).
2. Jesus said He had power to raise the dead to life just as the Father can raise the dead to life (John 5:21).
3. Jesus said where two are three are gathered in his name, He is among them (Matthew 18:20).
4. Jesus held everything together by the word of his power when he purged us of our sins (on the cross) (Hebrews 1:3).
5. Jesus had the power of God to forgive sin and provide eternal life to people (Matthew 9:5) (John 10:28).
6. Jesus had the power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
7. Jesus received worship as God (Matthew 28:16-17).

Only God could do those things.

This business about Jesus not knowing the day or the hour, etc.
is a mystery to me ... except ...
all Three of the Triune Godhead have different functions!
The Father is in ultimate control of all things
(except the free will of His creations: angels and humans),
and perhaps He just did not (and has not?) reveal(ed) His will
about some things to the other Two Members of the Godhead.

It is not a mystery. Philippians 2:6-9 talks about how Jesus was made like a servant or man. This is the Incarnation. This is the Kenosis. This is when the Son of God suppressed His Omniscience (i.e. to know all things).

So Jesus was not only just a man who was limited in knowledge, could feel pain, get tired, get hungry, etc. He also is the Son of God who was Holy and perfect in everything He did, too. For can God feel tired or hungry? No. But by inhabiting the body of a man He could feel what it was like to be tired or hungry. Samson was blinded and he outstretched his arms to save his people. Jesus was in a way blinded by no longer having His Omniscience for a short time on this Earth so as to save us by being our substitute.



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[Bible Highlighter]

In fact, I remember a long time ago in being troubled greatly in the spirit in trying to reconcile passages like Isaiah 7:14-16; For there are verses that say Jesus is 100% God (With Him being worshiped as God) and there were verses that say Jesus is a man, too (Who was limited in knowledge). In fact, I remember reading article after article for days in trying to find the truth (with no real satisfactory answer). But then God came thru for me like He always does and He provided me an explanation by this Pastor here in the following video.

It is a video that talks about the Hypostatic Union and the Kenosis.

I highly recommend that you check it out.


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[ZacharyB]

In post #34, thou hast gone into a whole pile of unrelated nonsense
(quite a heavy-duty diversion) ... to the points I have been making.
Thus, I will no longer be involved in this topic of ours.

BTW, I've never been conditioned by anything or anyone in particular.
I came into this thing: (1) born-again, and (2) baptized with the Spirit
... wide open ... with NO pre-conceived opinions, etc. about anything,
except for believing in the Trinity from Sunday School eons before.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In post #34, thou hast gone into a whole pile of unrelated nonsense
(quite a heavy-duty diversion) ... to the points I have been making.
Thus, I will no longer be involved in this topic of ours.

BTW, I've never been conditioned by anything or anyone in particular.
I came into this thing: (1) born-again, and (2) baptized with the Spirit
... wide open ... with NO pre-conceived opinions, etc. about anything,
except for believing in the Trinity from Sunday School eons before.

First, you did not address the points I made with Scripture. This is simply avoidance in my opinion (of what you do not want to see).
Second, do you believe you are free from error and that it is impossible for you to make mistakes when studying God's Word? I can say that I have openly admitted when I was wrong when it comes to Scripture. Can you say the same?

In any event, may God bless you.
If you do not want to discuss it anymore, I understand.
Peace be unto you.


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