Again, the entire debate between Catholcism and Protestantism hinges upon salvation

[Dark_Lite]

I see the idea of rapture even in the Old Testement. Where God took Enoch and Elijah.

Like I said, the Bible can be used to support anything.

Heavenly ascension does not foreshadow a secret commando coming where Jesus smuggles Christians out of Earth. If anything, it foreshadows the Resurrection.

 

[hedrick]

One thing I find is that correct doctrine is often a matter of balance. There are certain classic issues where there are two considerations that have to be balanced: Christ's humanity and divinity, the unity of God and the distinction and divinity of Son and Holy Spirit. Heresies tend to result from overemphasis of one consideration over the other, i.e. losing the balance.

Salvation is a similar thing. From a Reformed view there are two things that we have to hold together: (1) that salvation includes a complete remake, and results in a change in behavior, (2) that God's call and our status before him is a permanent commitment from God, even when we blow it. While both Catholics and Protestants often get it right, it is characteristic of Catholic theology to emphasize the first. By defining "justification" to be pretty much the same as salvation, it's hard even to talk about the status of being permanently part of God's family. Similarly, it is characteristic of Protestant theology to emphasize the second. This is particularly true when "salvation" is defined as practically synonymous with justification, as a one-time even. (Actually even justification isn't one-time. It is best thought of as the the status of being one of God's people. However the term is also used for being put into that status.)

 

[Bob Jones Student]

​

2 Pet. 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

This isn't directed at the picture only.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Bob Jones Student

What it means to be born of water:

​

​

An infant is already born of "water"

http://www.christianforums.com/t7505731/
Being Baptised a second time after infant Baptism?

YouTube - Pregnant lady breaks water dancing

 

[Chris81]

An infant is already born of "water"

http://www.christianforums.com/t7505731/
Being Baptised a second time after infant Baptism?

YouTube - Pregnant lady breaks water dancing

It is only considered a baptism if you say "In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" immediately after the water breaks.

 

[Athanasias]

I plead with Catholics... the entire debate between us hinges upon salvation alone. Sure there are secondary matters, but this is the key thing...

You think it's evil that we preach salvation by faith alone, but that's what is biblical. When a person is saved they'll produce good works, but you don't do good works to become saved.

Infant baptism isn't needed for salvation, God has to open the heart first, and after you're saved, you must be baptized only to show you're faith.

Please reject the false doctrines of Roman Catholicism, look to the Lord alone to save you, and be saved, then reach out to those that are still holding to the false doctrines.

Hey Bob Jones student. I am a Ave Maria University student. Your wrong! The entire debate Catholic and Protestants does not hing upon salvation as much as it does Authority. First we know what authority to trust. Do we trust each reformers private interpretation of scripture or do we trust Scripture, Apostolic tradition(how the early Christian Church who knew the apostles understood the scripture), and the Magisterium ie The Pope and the Bishops united in Authority over us.

We need to know what authority to trust to tell us how to get saved.

So Authority is the first issue not salvation!

In Jesus through Mary,
Athanasias

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Bob Jones Student I plead with Catholics... the entire debate between us hinges upon salvation alone. Sure there are secondary matters, but this is the key thing...

Don't forget to plead with the EOs also

Hey Bob Jones student. I am a Ave Maria University student. Athanasias

I seem to remember you said you also went to an EO school

http://www.christianforums.com/t7429494-79/#post53864332

I remember goign to the Eastern Orhtodox school for a year when I was 12(7 th grade) and thier preist told us we were to worship the icons becasue the icons were gods and made God and his saints present to us! We were to kiss them and bow down before them and worship them and light a candle by them before liturgy began.
The catholic Chruch teachs the same things! Once at mass the prioest presented a statue of a Saint and Said "Hear o Catholics is your God worship it

 

[christianmomof3]

Hey Bob Jones student. I am a Ave Maria University student. Your wrong! The entire debate Catholic and Protestants does not hing upon salvation as much as it does Authority. First we know what authority to trust. Do we trust each reformers private interpretation of scripture or do we trust Scripture, Apostolic tradition(how the early Christian Church who knew the apostles understood the scripture), and the Magisterium ie The Pope and the Bishops united in Authority over us.

We need to know what authority to trust to tell us how to get saved.

So Authority is the first issue not salvation!

In Jesus through Mary,
Athanasias

Authority is a difference between RCC and other Christians. The authority that I trusted in to save me, is the Lord - not Mary or other dead people, not Popes and other clergy, but the Lord. And His written word, the Bible, tells me how He saves me. His word was spoken to me by other members of the Body of Christ and they prayed with me the first time I prayed to Jesus.

 

[Athanasias]

Authority is a difference between RCC and other Christians. The authority that I trusted in to save me, is the Lord - not Mary or other dead people, not Popes and other clergy, but the Lord. And His written word, the Bible, tells me how He saves me. His word was spoken to me by other members of the Body of Christ and they prayed with me the first time I prayed to Jesus.

Yeah! You guys can argue amongst yourself about what you mistakenly think Catholic theology teaches(you would do well to take a college course on Catholic theology from a Catholic university to see your misconceptions). My point is Bob Jones is wrong. Authority is the main issue that divides us that goes even before Salvation.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yeah! You guys can argue amongst yourself about what you mistakenly think Catholic theology teaches(you would do well to take a college course on Catholic theology from a Catholic university to see your misconceptions). My point is Bob Jones is wrong. Authority is the main issue that divides us that goes even before Salvation.

No thanks

 

[Athanasias]

No thanks

Yep Ignorance is bliss!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yep Ignorance is bliss!

You are welcome to remain in that if ya like

 

[Athanasias]

You are welcome to remain in that if ya like

O thats ok I am a life long Catholic, a Grad student in Catholic theology, and did my undergrad in Catholic theology.


I know what we teach. But I can certainly understand why a person would not want to learn it. It makes it easier to attack misconceptions and straw men then real teachings and real understandings. Ignorance is bliss for those who do not want to take a college class and find out what we do teach.

If anyone is in the St. Louis area then
Ave Maria Univerisity St. Louis campus for IPT Grad school in theology is having a open house Nov 12th-14th. Come sit in and listen to some great Theology lectures by outstanding orthodox Catholic professors on the Fall of Man, St. John of the Cross, and the book of Leviticus.


Anyone interested please contact me and I will hook you up with details and a flyer.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

O thats ok I am a life long Catholic, a Grad student in Catholic theology, and did my undergrad in Catholic theology.
.

So how come ya never went to a RC Seminary

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I remember goign to the Eastern Orhtodox school for a year when I was 12(7 th grade) and thier preist told us we were to worship the icons becasue the icons were gods and made God and his saints present to us! We were to kiss them and bow down before them and worship them and light a candle by them before liturgy began.

I certainly hope that being 12 you misunderstood. Because that's not Orthodox Christianity.

Forgive me...

 

[Athanasias]

So how come ya never went to a RC Seminary

That's a good question. After prayer and consideration I discerned that I was not called to be a priest but rather a theology teacher. So I did undergrad and now Grad so I can teach high school and adult theology.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I certainly hope that being 12 you misunderstood. Because that's not Orthodox Christianity.

Forgive me...

Ortho ya nut!
That was quoting Athanasias, not me

http://www.christianforums.com/t7429494-79/#post53864332

 

[Tzaousios]

O thats ok I am a life long Catholic, a Grad student in Catholic theology, and did my undergrad in Catholic theology.

Wait a second, I thought you were mysteriously a Baptist at CF for a while. I seem to recall someone pointing that out to you and getting no explanation.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Wait a second, I thought you were mysteriously a Baptist at CF for a while. I seem to recall someone pointing that out to you and getting no explanation.

He is playing "double agent" [I liked him better as a Protestant myself]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7429494-23/#post53864852

quote: "Look folks I am not here to preach a sermon. I am here becasue I just came out of the Catholic church and I have gone to school for a year at a Eo school and both taught the worship of Icons and statues and the priest and teachers even used the word worship to describe what we were doing. when I was Catholic I held that in for along time but now I knwo that veneration is worship!"

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Ortho ya nut!
That was quoting Athanasias, not me

[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7429494-79/#post53864332"]http://www.christianforums.com/t7429494-79/#post53864332[/URL]

Look at #167... it looks like you were saying it!

LOL

Forgive me...