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Again, the entire debate between Catholcism and Protestantism hinges upon salvation

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Bob Jones Student, Oct 15, 2010.

  1. Cain Spencer

    Cain Spencer God save us all.

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    Stop stirring the pot LLOJ otherwise the dumplings will go all gooey! :argh:
     
  2. NewUser123

    NewUser123 New Member

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    Cain Spencer likes this.
  3. Cain Spencer

    Cain Spencer God save us all.

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    You were once suspended!? Don't worry too much... I have also been suspended on another forum site... (lol) I won't tell you which one!

    I gained a whopping 35 infractions in 3 months! 10 alone is enough to get you suspended... (Jaw drops.) :whyy:.....heh heh).:ahah:
     
    Fireinfolding likes this.
  4. katherine2001

    katherine2001 Veteran

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    :thumbsup::clap:
     
  5. Chris81

    Chris81 Servant to Christ

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    How do you know that you are of the elect? In all seriousness I am interested to know how a strict Calvinist 'knows' they are saved.

    In Calvinist theology you believe in Unconditional Election in which God elects to save people based on his own criteria and not of condition of the individual in the maters of sin or heartfelt belief. You likely will tell me that your soul has been regenerated by the grace of God and that you have been given saving faith. However, Calvin taught something called 'evanescent grace' in which God gives a 'fake grace' to the Reprobate to make them 'think' and act as if they were Saved, and this only so that He could damn them with greater punishment for such deceptive behavior. Such teaching can be found in Book III, Chapter II, Section 11 of Institutes of the Christian Religion. It appears from his teachings that the 'evanescent grace' is most often indistinguishable from the real thing. Therefore, in reality their is no assurance of salvation with such a theology.
     
  6. CryptoLutheran

    CryptoLutheran Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman

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    In Calvinism the very fact that someone does have faith is evidence that they are among the elect. Only the elect can have faith. Only those whom God has eternally predestined can ever have faith. Ever.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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  7. Chris81

    Chris81 Servant to Christ

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    But how do they know that their faith is truly genuine. Often times they claim that those who have turned away from Christ were never saved to begin with, even if they had lived a life dedicated to Christ for decades before turning away. The person would be deemed a probate that was given 'evanescent grace' a fake grace. In reality it seems that no one can truly know if someone is of the elect until they have remained in faith to the very moment they die.
     
  8. CryptoLutheran

    CryptoLutheran Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman

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    I would presume it's because the elect can't fall away. Which more-or-less agrees with what you say in the following:

    I think that's for the most part true, not being a Calvinist, and not having studied it as in depth as I have a number of other theologies, it would be difficult to offer a counter-point if there is one.

    If one is of the elect they have faith, if they have faith they cannot fall away; if they do fall away they never actually had faith and were never one of the elect.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  9. Fireinfolding

    Fireinfolding Legend Supporter

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    Peters admonishment

    2Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
     
  10. Rick Otto

    Rick Otto The Dude Abides

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    Ba-da-boom.
    QFT:thumbsup:
     
  11. Rick Otto

    Rick Otto The Dude Abides

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    Diligence Rules (Lazy People Are Fools)" We wetre studying:
    PROVERBS 4:23 Keep thy heart with all DILIGENCE; for out of it are the issues of life.
    Just like predestination doesn't eliminate choice, neither does it eliminate personal responsibility. There are carrots. It ain't all stick. It's about motivation... self will or grace.
     
  12. laconicstudent

    laconicstudent New Member

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    *glances at poor degenerate kitty in his signature*
     
  13. Athanasias

    Athanasias Regular Member

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    This is a webpage founded by a former Calvinist professor now Catholic that is my friend in St. Louis. His ministry is to bring in Calvinist and he brings alot of them into the Catholic faith each year. We have several coming from Presbyterian and reformed baptist chruch's this year.

    A great article

    How John Calvin Made me a Catholic | Called to Communion
     
    sunlover1 likes this.
  14. sunlover1

    sunlover1 Beloved, Let us love one another

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    Hey, where is his office?
    (Note to self, Steer kids clear of this guy on their missions trip)
    Thanks Athanasias! :wave::holy:
     
  15. Fireinfolding

    Fireinfolding Legend Supporter

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    He is a rewarder of them who DILIGENTLY seek Him:thumbsup:

    Prov 13:4 The soul of the sluggard desireth, and hath nothing: but the soul of THE DILIGENT shall be made fat.

    The sluggard is contrasted against the diligent which means slothful

    Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

    Jesus said, "thou wicked and slothful servant

    Prov 24:30-31 I went by the field of the slothful, and by the vineyard of the man void of understanding And, lo, it was all grown over with thorns, and nettles had covered the face thereof, and the stone wall thereof was broken down.

    Which agrees in that which beareth thorns being rejected

    Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.


    He went by the feild of the slothful and by the vineyard of the man void of understanding, Paul speaks of understanding what the Lords will is I'm working on this one from another way though, not finished ofcourse

    Nothing wrong with given diligence ^_^

    We are admonished toward it, says if you give diligence to make your election and calling sure you will never fall.

    Good enough for me:thumbsup:

    Being slothful is not something the parable or Paul reccomends thats for sure:thumbsup:
     
  16. Athanasias

    Athanasias Regular Member

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    He lives in the West, teaches in the North and South and evanglizes in all three as my professor at Ave Maria U, another convert does with him. I am not sure about the east. We have alot of apologists and converts fro, protestantism in the St. Louis area because St. louis is a huge Catholic town with very evangelical outreach in our diocese.
     
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  17. Athanasias

    Athanasias Regular Member

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    Send them my way in the south!
     
  18. boswd

    boswd New Member

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    what's your motivation you were pre saved before you born.

    did Christ even have to die on the cross for your Salvation according to Calvinism?
     
  19. sunlover1

    sunlover1 Beloved, Let us love one another

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    OMGosh.
    Is his name Johnny?
    Cos it sounds like he's been everywhere man!
    :holy:

    I think I should be very very skeered.
     
  20. Athanasias

    Athanasias Regular Member

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    Actually his name is Bryan. There is nothing to be scared of this won't hurt a bit! :p