abstaining from sin not equal to good works?

[ToBeLoved]

1 John 2
19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

That's a little scary for protestants, don't you think?

How's that scary?

 

[Thursday]

How's that scary?

It is describing protestantism.

 

[disciple1]

But you didn't even try to put up any kind of debate with Scripture by explaining how you think the passages that refute Eternal Security does not really mean what they say, though. In other words, I would like for you to explain the verses that I believe are against Eternal Security (that we have been discussing) by showing me:

(a) The context (i.e. surrounding text to the verse(s)).
(b) Cross References (i.e. Other related verses in other parts of Scripture).

...

You already said you sin, if anyone keeps the whole law and sins once their guilty of every sin, so as far as god is concerned your gay.
And we've both studied the bible and disagree, why say more.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It is describing protestantism.

Gotta love those Catholic priests! They share so much, so often.

 

[Thursday]

Gotta love those Catholic priests! They share so much, so often.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

My point is that the original protestants left the Church, which is what John is describing in his letter.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

My point is that the original protestants left the Church, which is what John is describing in his letter.

The verse says "some of them went out"

You say "the original protestants left the Church'.

BIG, BIG difference.

Judas betrayed Jesus. Which could be that one left Jesus. NO?

Would that be "the disciples left Jesus"

BIG, BIG difference

 

[Thursday]

The verse says "some of them went out"

You say "the original protestants left the Church'.

BIG, BIG difference.

Judas betrayed Jesus. Which could be that one left Jesus. NO?

Would that be "the disciples left Jesus"

BIG, BIG difference

I don't see the difference. The early protestants left the fold.

They started teaching false doctrines. They rejected the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. They taught that our actions have no impact on our salvation. They taught that obedience to those sent by Jesus is unnecessary. etc.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I don't see the difference. The early protestants left the fold.

They started teaching false doctrines. They rejected the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. They taught that our actions have no impact on our salvation. They taught that obedience to those sent by Jesus is unnecessary. etc.

I think that you need to include scripture.
How many? 1 or 1,0000?

some protestants or all protestants?

I do not see how you can say "The early protestants left the fold" without it being inaccurate and terribly misleading.

Are you guessing?

 

[Thursday]

I think that you need to include scripture.
How many? 1 or 1,0000?

some protestants or all protestants?

I do not see how you can say "The early protestants left the fold" without it being inaccurate and terribly misleading.

Are you guessing?

Of course not. They all left the Catholic Church. That is what they were protesting.

Are you unfamiliar with the events of the Reformation?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Of course not. They all left the Catholic Church. That is what they were protesting.

Are you unfamiliar with the events of the Reformation?

John could not have been talking about the Reformation in God's Word, because the Reformation took place much later after the Bible cannon had been closed.

 

[Job8]

Do you think there is a difference between what the Bible calls good works and the abstinence from sin?

Absolutely. Good works are for the benefit of others.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

 

[Marvin Knox]

.........The early protestants left the fold........They started teaching false doctrines............

They did indeed leave the fold and it happened very early as the scriptures themselves tell us. They went out from the original church and started various cults - showing that they were not really of the Church to begin with according to the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

One of those cults is what we now call Roman Catholicism.

They set up their headquarters on Vatican Hill in Rome, where the Vatican Circus was located, and began to incorporate many of the cultish practices they found in the Circus into the teachings of their cult.

They set up a bishop in Rome as the representative or "vicar" of Christ and gave him the Circus cult title "Pontifex Maximus" which dates back to the time of the Chaldeans.

This particular break away cult set up a false priesthood which began to claim the sole right of administering the false Lord's Supper on which salvation in their cult rests.

They adopted various other heresies too numerous to mention.

This cult eventually overshadowed the true church itself for a period of time in history.

Finally there came another type of protestant. They brought about a breaking out of the darkness as the scriptures (which had long been suppressed by the leaders of the cult) began to become available so that the average man could understand salvation rightly again.

With fits and starts and various arguments over the meaning of scripture - that are still going on today - the true Church is wrestling (even as seen in this forum) with the various doctrines found in scripture just as the noble Bereans did in Paul's day.

Many are still held captive world wide by the Roman cult and various other cults as well.

We in the true body of Christ pray for their salvation as we try our best to rescue some from the coming fire that will someday engulf the papists, all those who resist the truth and those who persecute true believers.

P.S.
I suppose that some might wonder at my taking the term “protestant” and applying it to the Roman cult.

I don’t know of any one organization in history that has “protested” longer and stronger against the true church of Jesus Christ and it’s foundation of an adherence to the scriptures alone as the basis for determining truth than the papists.

They have burned the Word of God and burned the people of God along with it beyond measure.

May God have mercy on anyone who condones their beliefs and practices.

 

[brotherjerry]

There is much I would agree with on Marvin's post. And I think for me the main point would be without getting into "my denomination is better than yours" shouting match, we all have to realize that no one group is perfect in their following of the teachings of Christ. No matter how much they wish to claim it so. The RCC has strayed many times over the centuries as well, and they even will typically admit it....Inquisition ring a bell anyone? Even on matters of theology and doctrine I truly believe that no one "church" gets it 100% correct as intended.

We all seem to add our own "traditions" to things. And Paul teaches about this. He teaches that if a brother thinks they should not eat meat in order to sanctify themselves then don't get in the way. But what Paul does teach in that moment is that what may be good for you, may not be the same for everyone else when it comes to your walk with Christ. That is why we are to work out our own salvation. That does not mean that we are all saved differently, no for there is only one way to be saved. But it does mean that we should each have our own relationship with Christ and it is our own relationship and no one else's.

That is why even in these debates, discussions, arguments, everyone has to remember that we are to love one another first and foremost. That love can be reflected in respect for each other, and a willingness to listen and keep rhetoric toned down, hold your tongue and think before speaking lest you say something that you cannot take back. Coming to a forum like this should not be about changing the minds of brothers and sisters in confrontation, but about education. You can claim your argument is from a position of correction, but you have to first base your argument from love and respect. Scripture is there for education of the Saints, correction of the false prophets, and to show the love of God through us.

Keep it in love, keep an open mind to better understand your brother or sister, pray before response.

Sincerely
Brother Jerry

 

[Thursday]

There is much I would agree with on Marvin's post. And I think for me the main point would be without getting into "my denomination is better than yours" shouting match, we all have to realize that no one group is perfect in their following of the teachings of Christ. No matter how much they wish to claim it so. The RCC has strayed many times over the centuries as well, and they even will typically admit it....Inquisition ring a bell anyone? Even on matters of theology and doctrine I truly believe that no one "church" gets it 100% correct as intended.

We all seem to add our own "traditions" to things. And Paul teaches about this. He teaches that if a brother thinks they should not eat meat in order to sanctify themselves then don't get in the way. But what Paul does teach in that moment is that what may be good for you, may not be the same for everyone else when it comes to your walk with Christ. That is why we are to work out our own salvation. That does not mean that we are all saved differently, no for there is only one way to be saved. But it does mean that we should each have our own relationship with Christ and it is our own relationship and no one else's.

That is why even in these debates, discussions, arguments, everyone has to remember that we are to love one another first and foremost. That love can be reflected in respect for each other, and a willingness to listen and keep rhetoric toned down, hold your tongue and think before speaking lest you say something that you cannot take back. Coming to a forum like this should not be about changing the minds of brothers and sisters in confrontation, but about education. You can claim your argument is from a position of correction, but you have to first base your argument from love and respect. Scripture is there for education of the Saints, correction of the false prophets, and to show the love of God through us.

Keep it in love, keep an open mind to better understand your brother or sister, pray before response.

Sincerely
Brother Jerry

The Church Jesus started is perfect in that it is being led by the Holy Spirit in the fullness of truth. It does not teach false doctrine.

Therefore, because protestantism teaches multiple contradictory doctrines, this must not be the home of the Church Jesus started.

 

[brotherjerry]

And as I said, even the Catholic Church has made it's mistakes over the centuries as well. And still does. As I also said I do not believe that every denomination (Catholic included) has it 100% correct.
Primary reason being is that denominations are inventions of man. Even the Catholic denomination. As long as the Gospel message remains the same, then the extra stuff is truly just that...extra. It really does not matter if you believe in full body baptism or sprinkling, but what does matter is if you interject any of your extra traditions, into the salvation message. IE you have to have pink hair to be saved.

Of course that rubs people who think their denomination is the ONLY one that has the real message, the wrong way. But they ignore a message Paul spoke of concerning the individuals walk with Christ for sanctification. We are to be of one mind...we should all have the same Gospel message. But if having green carpet means you are not saved, then your denomination needs to go back to school

 

[Thursday]

And as I said, even the Catholic Church has made it's mistakes over the centuries as well. And still does. As I also said I do not believe that every denomination (Catholic included) has it 100% correct.
Primary reason being is that denominations are inventions of man. Even the Catholic denomination. As long as the Gospel message remains the same, then the extra stuff is truly just that...extra. It really does not matter if you believe in full body baptism or sprinkling, but what does matter is if you interject any of your extra traditions, into the salvation message. IE you have to have pink hair to be saved.

Of course that rubs people who think their denomination is the ONLY one that has the real message, the wrong way. But they ignore a message Paul spoke of concerning the individuals walk with Christ for sanctification. We are to be of one mind...we should all have the same Gospel message. But if having green carpet means you are not saved, then your denomination needs to go back to school

Jesus promised his Church would be led in all truth.

Do you believe Jesus?

 

[brotherjerry]

Yep I sure do...
But just to check your understanding, what verse says that?

Also to note the Catholic church is led by one man. And the church is not THE CHURCH in Rome, but it is the body of believers that make up the church.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You already said you sin, if anyone keeps the whole law and sins once their guilty of every sin, so as far as god is concerned your gay.
And we've both studied the bible and disagree, why say more.

Every believer has sinned before they came to the faith. Also, just because I have stumbled (in the past) on the road in striving to overcome sin for good one day (with me confessing and forsaking that sin) does not equate with me doing that sin again in the future.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Absolutely. Good works are for the benefit of others.

You can actually deny God by not having works (Read Titus 1:16).


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