Abraham's sin

[CherubRam]

Enoch (2967 BC) gave some prophecy using astrological signs. Abram / Abraham (1800 BC) also gave prophecy using astrological signs. That is why Astrology is called Abraham's sin. The Pyramids have the same same astrological signs from Joseph.

 

[gadar perets]

It might help if you provide some references for those prophesies.

 

[Soyeong]

Enoch (2967 BC) gave some prophecy using astrological signs. Abram / Abraham (1800 BC) also gave prophecy using astrological signs. That is why Astrology is called Abraham's sin. The Pyramids have the same same astrological signs from Joseph.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,

Psalms 19:1-4 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. 2 Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. 3 There is no speech, nor are there words, whose voice is not heard. 4 Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.

I think that astrological bodies were given to be as signs and are meant to communicate to us. This is different from astrology, which is "a form of divination based on the theory that the movement of the celestial bodies—the stars, the planets, the sun and the moon—influence human affairs and determine the course of events." A thermometer can tell you whether it is hot or cold, but it can't make you hot or cold, and this is the difference between the way that the Bible uses signs and astrology.

 

[CherubRam]

It might help if you provide some references for those prophesies.

Here is a small example of astrological prophecy.


Job 9:9

He is the Maker of the (Bear / Lion) and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.


Job 38:31

“Can you bind the (chains / twinkling) of the Pleiades? Can you loosen Orion’s belt?


Orion use to be known as the Shepherd.


Amos 5:8

He who made the Pleiades and Orion, who turns midnight into dawn and darkens day into night, who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out over the face of the land— (the Lord / Yahwah) is his name.


Pleiades is also known as the Seven Stars.


Revelation 1:16

In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.


Revelation 1:20

The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the (angels / messengers) of the seven (churches / congregations), and the seven lampstands are the seven (churches / congregations.)


Revelation 2:1

“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lamps.


Revelation 3:1

“To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.


One lamp has been removed. You can know this to be true because there was once seven stars of the Pleiades visible, but now only six.


Revelation 2:5

Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lamp from its place.

 

[CherubRam]

Genesis 1:14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,

Psalms 19:1-4 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. 2 Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. 3 There is no speech, nor are there words, whose voice is not heard. 4 Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.

I think that astrological bodies were given to be as signs and are meant to communicate to us. This is different from astrology, which is "a form of divination based on the theory that the movement of the celestial bodies—the stars, the planets, the sun and the moon—influence human affairs and determine the course of events." A thermometer can tell you whether it is hot or cold, but it can't make you hot or cold, and this is the difference between the way that the Bible uses signs and astrology.

You are correct, it was foretold: Genesis 1:14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,

 

[CherubRam]

Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Jude 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these

 

[gadar perets]

Here is a small example of astrological prophecy.


Job 9:9

He is the Maker of the (Bear / Lion) and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.


Job 38:31

“Can you bind the (chains / twinkling) of the Pleiades? Can you loosen Orion’s belt?


Orion use to be known as the Shepherd.


Amos 5:8

He who made the Pleiades and Orion, who turns midnight into dawn and darkens day into night, who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out over the face of the land— (the Lord / Yahwah) is his name.


Pleiades is also known as the Seven Stars.


Revelation 1:16

In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.


Revelation 1:20

The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the (angels / messengers) of the seven (churches / congregations), and the seven lampstands are the seven (churches / congregations.)


Revelation 2:1

“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lamps.


Revelation 3:1

“To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.


One lamp has been removed. You can know this to be true because there was once seven stars of the Pleiades visible, but now only six.


Revelation 2:5

Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lamp from its place.

I don't see any "astrology" in any of these verses. It is not wrong to name certain groups of stars. It is wrong when you say, for example, "When Orion aligns with_________then ________ will come upon us."

I also don't see Abraham's sin in those verses. Which verse, in particular, is his sin?

 

[AbbaLove]

The Bible forbids such witchcraft. The Old Testament mentions "astrologers," and condemns them... "Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth; if so be thou shalt be able to profit, if so be thou mayest prevail. Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them..." (Isaiah 47:12-14) ... http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/Wicca & Witchcraft/astrology.htm​

What about the Star over Bethlehem? Weren't the so-called "wise men" from the East stargazing astrologers? Would Herod have had all those children 2 years old and younger killed if the so-called wise men from the East had never stopped to inquire of Herod before they journeyed on to Bethlehem?

I've never followed/believed or read any daily newspaper astrology. However, to conclude that Enoch, Job or Abraham's mention of star formations is akin to "sin" seems a little far-fetched without knowing more. Were the wise men from the East sinners?

 

[CherubRam]

I don't see any "astrology" in any of these verses. It is not wrong to name certain groups of stars. It is wrong when you say, for example, "When Orion aligns with_________then ________ will come upon us."

I also don't see Abraham's sin in those verses. Which verse, in particular, is his sin?

I said "Astrological," I did not say "Astrology."

 

[CherubRam]

Attention! I am not saying that Abraham sinned, I am saying that Astrology is blamed upon Abraham.

 

[CherubRam]

Here is a small example of astrological prophecy.


Job 9:9

He is the Maker of the (Bear / Lion) and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.


Job 38:31

“Can you bind the (chains / twinkling) of the Pleiades? Can you loosen Orion’s belt?


Orion use to be known as the Shepherd.


Amos 5:8

He who made the Pleiades and Orion, who turns midnight into dawn and darkens day into night, who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out over the face of the land— (the Lord / Yahwah) is his name.


Pleiades is also known as the Seven Stars.


Revelation 1:16

In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.


Revelation 1:20

The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the (angels / messengers) of the seven (churches / congregations), and the seven lampstands are the seven (churches / congregations.)


Revelation 2:1

“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lamps.


Revelation 3:1

“To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.


One lamp has been removed. You can know this to be true because there was once seven stars of the Pleiades visible, but now only six.


Revelation 2:5

Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lamp from its place.

Anyone care to try and explain the above prophecy?

 

[Hieronymus]

The word "mazaroth" comes to mind.
I'm not sure, but isn't that ancient Judaic astrology, different from the pagan version, not sure, you can ignore this message if it's pointless here.

 

[gadar perets]

I said "Astrological," I did not say "Astrology."

In post #1 you said, "That is why Astrology is called Abraham's sin." So when you later said, "Here is a small example of astrological prophecy", I thought you were mixing the two. Post #1 also seems to use those words interchangeably.

Attention! I am not saying that Abraham sinned, I am saying that Astrology is blamed upon Abraham.

If astrology is "Abraham's sin" (post #1), then you are saying Abraham sinned. I'll assume you just used poor wording and that you really didn't mean Abraham sinned.

Also, I don't see any connection between Abraham and astrology in the prophesies you gave. What did Abraham do or say to receive blame for astrology?

 

[gadar perets]

Anyone care to try and explain the above prophecy?

I don't see any connection between the Seven Stars/Seven Sisters (Pleiades) and the seven golden lampstands of Revelation 1:20. Do not confuse the seven stars with the seven golden lampstands/lamps. In Revelation 2:1, the seven stars are in his hand AS he walks among the lamps. In Revelation 2:5, the warning is that a "lamp" would be removed, not a star.

All seven stars in Pleiades can be seen with the naked eye if you know where to look and the sky is dark enough. Here is a quote from an article found here.

So let's add up our starry gems. The bright five plus two not-so-difficult core cluster stars make seven.​

 

[AbbaLove]

Attention! I am not saying that Abraham sinned, I am saying that Astrology is blamed upon Abraham.

Agree with gadar perets that your initial #1 statement gives the impression that giving "some prophecy using astrological signs" was a sin by Abraham. Especially considering the implication of your last sentence ... "The Pyramids have the same astrological signs from Joseph."

Enoch (2967 BC) gave some prophecy using astrological signs. Abram / Abraham (1800 BC) also gave prophecy using astrological signs. That is why Astrology is called Abraham's sin. The Pyramids have the same astrological signs from Joseph.

What scripture or research implies that the astrological signs on the Pyramids are of Joseph's doing?

Is it not possible that Abraham's use of astrological signs to give some prophecy was in fact a sin having been influenced by what he learned from his pagan ancestors? However, for one to surmise that Enoch's knowledge of certain formations of stars, if in fact used, to give some prophecy was a sin seems a stretch ... "for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." (Heb 11:5)

Apparently star gazing astrology in Judah was a No-No when the so-called wise men from the East appeared in Jerusalem in search of the King of the Jews. Having had time to ponder my above post do you think that the use of astrology by the wisemen from the East was a sin? Perhaps they were descendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel that studied astrology. Wouldn't that be a sin being that star gazing astrology in Judah was considered a sin.

Is there any reference whatsoever that any of the major prophets or minor prophets ever "gave some prophecy using astrological signs" that might legitimize Abraham's use of astrological signs to give some prophecy? Perhaps Abraham's use of astrological signs to give some prophecy was in fact a sin if it was based in any way on what he had picked up from his pagan ancestors.

 

[gadar perets]

I said "Astrological," I did not say "Astrology."

BTW, the definition of astrology and astrological are the same.

From Dictionary.com (Merriam-Webster's definitions are the same as well).

astrological - noun
1. the study that assumes and attempts to interpret the influence of the heavenly bodies on human affairs.

astrology - noun
1. the study that assumes and attempts to interpret the influence of the heavenly bodies on human affairs.
​

Perhaps you meant astronomical rather than astrological?

 

[CherubRam]

BTW, the definition of astrology and astrological are the same.

From Dictionary.com (Merriam-Webster's definitions are the same as well).

astrological - noun
1. the study that assumes and attempts to interpret the influence of the heavenly bodies on human affairs.

astrology - noun
1. the study that assumes and attempts to interpret the influence of the heavenly bodies on human affairs.
​

Perhaps you meant astronomical rather than astrological?

Astronomy and Astrology are two different things.

 

[CherubRam]

Job 38:32. KJV

Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?


Job 38:3. NIV

32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons[a]
or lead out the Bear[b] with its cubs?

Footnotes:

Job 38:32 Or the morning star in its season

Job 38:32 Or out Leo



My translation.


Can you bring forth the Morning Stars in their seasons? Or can you lead The Lion with his sons?

Morning Stars are the people of God.

Christ is The Lion of (Judah) the faithful.

The Lion Cubs are the Sons of God.

 

[CherubRam]

I don't see any connection between the Seven Stars/Seven Sisters (Pleiades) and the seven golden lampstands of Revelation 1:20. Do not confuse the seven stars with the seven golden lampstands/lamps. In Revelation 2:1, the seven stars are in his hand AS he walks among the lamps. In Revelation 2:5, the warning is that a "lamp" would be removed, not a star.

All seven stars in Pleiades can be seen with the naked eye if you know where to look and the sky is dark enough. Here is a quote from an article found here.

So let's add up our starry gems. The bright five plus two not-so-difficult core cluster stars make seven.​

Traditionally seven of the stars were visible to the naked eye. The lost star leads to another prophecy, giving rise to only six men in the last days over six congregations. http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/pleiades.html

 

[dobyzheee]

He`s right. NASA is nonsense