Abp. Lazar Pohalo (yeah, I'm going there)

[HalupkiMonster]

I'm confused. For a long time, I've listened to Abp. Lazar Pohalo's broadcasts on youtube. Some of the things he says seem to be fine, however as go the topics of homosexuality, transgenderism and toll houses, I ignore these topics when he refers to them in talks.

Recently I read an article that said Abp. Pohalo in fact condones and supports people who want to pursue a homosexual lifestyle.

I looked him up on wikipedia, and found out that he has served in various capacities not just in ROCOR and the OCA, but also schismatic groups like the Genuine True Orthodox Church of Greece, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Kiev Patriarchate) and the Free Serbian Orthodox Church.

I don't understand. Is he an archbishop or isn't he? Does he really hold these unorthodox views? Is he even an actual monk?

 

[HalupkiMonster]

Here, he says "Transgender people have a brain that is totally different from their bodies."

From what I know, this is not the Orthodox answer to the question of transgenderism, is it?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-f9rZ-VIiM

 

[Damaris]

I'm confused. For a long time, I've listened to Abp. Lazar Pohalo's broadcasts on youtube. Some of the things he says seem to be fine, however as go the topics of homosexuality, transgenderism and toll houses, I ignore these topics when he refers to them in talks.

Recently I read an article that said Abp. Pohalo in fact condones and supports people who want to pursue a homosexual lifestyle.

I looked him up on wikipedia, and found out that he has served in various capacities not just in ROCOR and the OCA, but also schismatic groups like the Genuine True Orthodox Church of Greece, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Kiev Patriarchate) and the Free Serbian Orthodox Church.

I don't understand. Is he an archbishop or isn't he? Does he really hold these unorthodox views? Is he even an actual monk?

He's had a rather checkered path. He was initially a deacon in ROCOR who was defrocked for heresy and schism.

He went from there to one schismatic group, to another, then to a third. These did not recognize his defrocking and made him a "priest", a "bishop", and "archbishop".

Eventually he was taken into the OCA which calls him a retired archbishop, so technically he has been regularized and is treated as an archbishop. This decision to receive him as a bishop was and remains extremely controversial.

However, the bottom line is that he does indeed hold unorthodox views on the topics you mentioned, and should be ignored as a teacher.

 

[HalupkiMonster]

He's had a rather checkered path. He was initially a deacon in ROCOR who was defrocked for heresy and schism.

He went from there to one schismatic group, to another, then to a third. These did not recognize his defrocking and made him a "priest", a "bishop", and "archbishop".

Eventually he was taken into the OCA which calls him a retired archbishop, so technically he has been regularized and is treated as an archbishop. This decision to receive him as a bishop was and remains extremely controversial.

However, the bottom line is that he does indeed hold unorthodox views on the topics you mentioned, and should be ignored as a teacher.

I see, thanks!

Off topic - I LOVE your signature quote. I just finished re-watching that episode!

 

[truthseeker32]

The idea that someone can feel like they are one sex while physically being another is not in itself something Orthodoxy rejects. What Orthodoxy rejects is the idea that it is perfectly normal for people to choose their gender.

 

[rusmeister]

It rejects the idea that they can choose their "gender" (you mean "sex"), period. It is assumed and taken for granted in all of Church history hat there is no choice involved. It's kind of like saying that one can choose to breathe oxygen or some other gas instead.

I'd have to look up the story of this "archbishop" before I could comment on him.

 

[rusmeister]

Here, he says "Transgender people have a brain that is totally different from their bodies."

From what I know, this is not the Orthodox answer to the question of transgenderism, is it?

Yeah, looks like the same foolshness Macarius was espousing.

What people lack is common sense. That's why they swallow stuff like this. They'll have you believing up is down and black is white because "science says so", or "studies show..."

I note that our actual bishops don't generally go on YouTube like this. Just an observation.

 

[ArmyMatt]

his problem is that even if they do have a differing brain than a "normal" human, so what? the approach to sin is the same. folks claim that they are born alcoholics, and that it is a genetic inclination. well, so what? stay away from drunkenness like the rest of us. you claim that you are born a man in a woman's body? so what? you have woman parts and should live your live accordingly. maybe it's a God given call to celibacy.

so yeah, I have found some things he says to be edifying, but take his stuff with a grain of salt.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

I see, thanks!

Off topic - I LOVE your signature quote. I just finished re-watching that episode!

Although I know the episode and its a favored one, I make sure I dont blink when angels are mentioned in a Dr. Who reference

 

[Knee V]

He's had a rather checkered path. He was initially a deacon in ROCOR who was defrocked for heresy and schism.

He went from there to one schismatic group, to another, then to a third. These did not recognize his defrocking and made him a "priest", a "bishop", and "archbishop".

Eventually he was taken into the OCA which calls him a retired archbishop, so technically he has been regularized and is treated as an archbishop. This decision to receive him as a bishop was and remains extremely controversial.

However, the bottom line is that he does indeed hold unorthodox views on the topics you mentioned, and should be ignored as a teacher.

^This

I recommend, apart from praying for him, pretending that he doesn't exist.

 

[jckstraw72]

i second that. pray for him, but stay far far away from his teachings.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I have found some things he says to be edifying, but take his stuff with a grain of salt.

Good advice...

 

[buzuxi02]

He was never a bishop in any capacity in any canonical Orthodox Church. He was recieved into the OCA with the understanding that he can retain his title of 'archbishop' as long as its clear that he's retired.

 

[Knee V]

He was never a bishop in any capacity in any canonical Orthodox Church. He was recieved into the OCA with the understanding that he can retain his title of 'archbishop' as long as its clear that he's retired.

Yep.

 

[rakovsky]

1980: Deacon Lev is ordered to cease lecturing in parishes on the subject of the toll houses1 by the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia. He was deposed by ROCOR for disobeying his bishop by continuing to preach his heresy of "soul sleep", and "for having entered a jurisdiction not in communion with ROCOR" and went to the schismatic Free Serbian Church.

2002: In a "Repentant Declaration" addressed to the Holy Synod of the OCA, dated 10/21/2002, Archbishop Lazar stated "I wish to express my sincere regret and repentance for my years of involvement in Orthodox Church bodies outside the Canonical Orthodox Church. While my long involvement with schismatic bodies such as the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, the Greek Old Calendarist bodies and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Kiev, was well-intentioned and motivated by a love of Orthodoxy, it was an error. I deeply regret this error and sincerely repent for it."
Lazar (Puhalo) of Ottawa - OrthodoxWiki

One article discusses two issues that ROCOR commented about critically:
fearing lest the teaching concerning the "Toll-Stations" be likened to the Latin Doctrine of Purgatory, he (Deacon Lev) leaves almost no place for what in Orthodox dogmatic theology is referred to as the "particular judgment", after which the soul experiences a foretaste of the blessedness or the eternal torment which awaits it after the resurrection.

"An active, intellectual life or functioning of the soul alone could never be conceived in either Old or New Testament thought. For the soul to function, its restoration with the body as the 'whole person' would be absolutely necessary" (Deacon Lev writes).
Such a concept of the soul separated from the body does not correspond in the least to the Orthodox concept. To begin with, it is at variance with the teaching concerning the preaching of the Forerunner in Hades prior to the arrival of the Saviour there...

Thus, addressing ourselves to contemporary conjectures on the life of the soul after death, I propose that we ought to follow the advice of Bishop Theophan," to terminate our speculation as regards the accounts of what takes place in the spiritual world. Read, delve deeply, be edified, but do not rush to draw any such conclusions therefrom. For that which is there, "eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man" (I Cor. 2:9)
http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/tollhouse_debate.aspx

Regarding the Toll Houses- the first issue- my impression is that Puhalo's views could be considered or thought about without endorsing them or calling him a heretic. I say that because Orthodox writings have expressed a range of ideas on the soul's experience after death and before the Second Coming, with a degree of uncertainty being expressed too. The writers on this subject came some time after the 1st century, I think.

Regarding "soul sleep" however it seems harder to accept that what he is saying is going to be true for everyone.

 

[ArmyMatt]

1980: Deacon Lev is ordered to cease lecturing in parishes on the subject of the toll houses1 by the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia. He was deposed by ROCOR for disobeying his bishop by continuing to preach his heresy of "soul sleep", and "for having entered a jurisdiction not in communion with ROCOR" and went to the schismatic Free Serbian Church.

2002: In a "Repentant Declaration" addressed to the Holy Synod of the OCA, dated 10/21/2002, Archbishop Lazar stated "I wish to express my sincere regret and repentance for my years of involvement in Orthodox Church bodies outside the Canonical Orthodox Church. While my long involvement with schismatic bodies such as the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, the Greek Old Calendarist bodies and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Kiev, was well-intentioned and motivated by a love of Orthodoxy, it was an error. I deeply regret this error and sincerely repent for it."
Lazar (Puhalo) of Ottawa - OrthodoxWiki

well, I am glad he wrote an open confession. did he ever address ROCOR, especially since now we are all in communion?

 

[rakovsky]

well, I am glad he wrote an open confession. did he ever address ROCOR, especially since now we are all in communion?

Good question. I am not sure he needs to. He had two problems with ROCOR. One was his association with noncanonical groups, which he renounced when he joined OCA. Second was the specific theological wanderings that I mentioned. Apparently either he has stopped doing them or else it is not to the extent that it bothers OCA enough to do anything.

My guess is that on those philosophical issues Lazar is doing guesswork, but that his ideas go against occasional assertions made in Orthodoxy to the contrary, and thus are nonstandard. I don't know what he really bases his claims on besides his own perceptions and guesses. I think that because of the Church's vagueness about the topic though, he should not be deposed for it. It is not like he is going against a codified, major tenet of Orthodoxy, even though generally our theologians would disagree with him. Only he should specify that what he is saying is his own guesswork and not the Church's official position.

 

[127.0.0.1]

wait... I'm confused.

So the first heresy he was accused of preaching was that there are no Toll Houses?
And the second was that he was preaching, "soul sleep"?

I've never him mention "soul sleep". Is that just the opposite of the Toll Houses? Or is it something else?

Is it like an either / or? Either you believe in the Toll Houses; or you believe in "soul sleep"?

 

[ArmyMatt]

wait... I'm confused.

So the first heresy he was accused of preaching was that there are no Toll Houses?
And the second was that he was preaching, "soul sleep"?

I've never him mention "soul sleep". Is that just the opposite of the Toll Houses? Or is it something else?

Is it like an either / or? Either you believe in the Toll Houses; or you believe in "soul sleep"?

no the heresy was soul sleep. he preached that as an alternative to the toll houses. most who disagree with the toll houses even know that soul sleep is pretty wrong. but it is not either or, because soul sleep is a no-go. thank God he repented and came home.

 

[rakovsky]

wait... I'm confused.

So the first heresy he was accused of preaching was that there are no Toll Houses?
And the second was that he was preaching, "soul sleep"?

I've never him mention "soul sleep". Is that just the opposite of the Toll Houses? Or is it something else?

Is it like an either / or? Either you believe in the Toll Houses; or you believe in "soul sleep"?

I don't think it's really an either / or. You can have a range of opinions about what happens. If I get the article right, it means he did not believe in any conscious experience after death until the Second Coming and Resurrection.
I don't know what the truth is, but when Orthodox writers talk about it they tend to say there are experiences in between.

I do not know whether he repented of his idea about this, but since he joined the OCA he must not be expressing it to the extent it would be a problem for the OCA.

In my humble opinion it should only be considered a problem if he presented his ideas as the position of the Church, when in fact the Church tends to disagree with him.