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Abortion rate falls under Obama

Discussion in 'OBOB General Politics Forum' started by Yoder777, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. Yoder777

    Yoder777 Senior Veteran

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    Obama's Culture of Life: Abortion Rate Drops by Largest Percentage Since 2000

    Has Obama done more to decrease the actual amount and rate of abortion in four years than Bush did in eight years? Could it be that social programs that offer help to poor mothers and increasing access to contraception actually decrease the amount of abortions? What does this say about Republican policies that have done nothing to decrease the abortion rate?
     
  2. Tallguy88

    Tallguy88 Theology Category Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Supporter CF Ambassador

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    It says that Republican talking points are not in line with reality. If we can't outlaw abortion (which we can't at this time) then the next best thing is to decrease abortions. One way to do this is by helping women who unexpectedly find themselves pregnant. Don't make them think that abortion is the only way out. Show them that they can make it as single mothers with a baby.

    But the far-right says that social programs to support single mothers encourage bad behavior. That it encourages promiscuity. So they pander to those who don't need help and say that those who do need help are immoral and would misuse the help they get anyway. So they get no help and decide to just make the pregnancy "go away."
     
  3. Brooklyn Knight

    Brooklyn Knight On a narrow road but not narrow minded

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    Sure you can. Not nationwide, but states can further limit when abortion can be procured or downright ban it.

    I would say all social programs in place now do more harm than good, and I say this because there really are little resources in ensuring people get out the current financial funk they are in.
     
  4. Tallguy88

    Tallguy88 Theology Category Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Supporter CF Ambassador

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    They can outlaw it, but until Roe is overturned, it would be largely symbolic. In fact, my state has an abortion ban written into it's Constitution, but you can still get an abortion here. But I do agree that we can limit the availability, pass notification laws, etc.

    [quote/]I would say all social programs in place now do more harm than good, and I say this because there really are little resources in ensuring people get out the current financial funk they are in.[/quote]

    All the laws do more harm than good? My sister is a pregnant, unwed teen and she gets help from the state. Medicaid, food stamps, and WIC. And after the baby gets here, she'll be eligible for subsidized housing. Certainly nobody is happy about the situation, but we're happy that there is help.
     
  5. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

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    The abortion rate just hit an all-time low

    And yet another thread.

    <b>John Kerry, Howard Dean, and Hillary Clinton used that ploy during the 2004 election cycle, and it was debunked by Fact Check.Org in 2005:
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Politicians from Hillary Clinton and John Kerry to Howard Dean have recently contended that abortions have increased since George W. Bush took office in 2001.​
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]This claim is false. It’s based on an an opinion piece that used data from only 16 states. A study by the Alan Guttmacher Institute of 43 states found that abortions have actually decreased. Update, May 26: The author of the original claim now concedes that the Guttmacher study is “significantly better” than his own.[/FONT]
    The abortion statistics found here show the downward trend continuing through 2007.


    Where Does Obama Get His Abortion Statistics? « Nice Deb</b>
    [/FONT]
     
  6. Tallguy88

    Tallguy88 Theology Category Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Supporter CF Ambassador

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    Looks like it peaked in 1993 and has been decreasing ever since. That's good. And it also puts a damper on the "If you vote Democrat, you vote for abortion!" argument.
     
  7. Brooklyn Knight

    Brooklyn Knight On a narrow road but not narrow minded

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    Does your sister have an education? Sister have any job training or has some skill she could use at a profession?
     
  8. Tallguy88

    Tallguy88 Theology Category Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Supporter CF Ambassador

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    No, she got pregnant in high school and now works part time to try and save up money. The boy is a lazy deadbeat.
     
  9. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

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    Actually - there are not stats showing the abortion rate since 2008 - i have looked many times now.
    I checked even gov sites - there is no info on this since 2008.

    So if anyone has a gov site - or any site that isnt partisan - please refer it.

    BTW - 2 weeks ago - stats were supposedly up due to the GOP. But now they are down - due to Obama?
     
  10. Brooklyn Knight

    Brooklyn Knight On a narrow road but not narrow minded

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    That's great for your sister.

    However, the problem is that there is little being done with regards to job training or teaching new skills for employment, promoting further studies at less cost for an individual, really being diligent in finding people employment, AND - this one really irks me - you have states offering aid to illegal immigrants while certain citizens are left to fend for themselves.

    That's why I have a problem: you've got people on food stamps, Medicaid and they remain there, and it's not their fault.
     
  11. Tallguy88

    Tallguy88 Theology Category Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Supporter CF Ambassador

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    She wants to do something, education-wise. She just can't right now. But I hear you on the illegals getting social services.
     
  12. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

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    "The abortion rate falls under Obama". Might want to keep that a secret. Obama *wants* abortion. He's on record saying that he doesn't want his daughter "punished with a baby". (He wants to "off" his own grandchild! How cold!) Of course, can't be surprised. He's working with the abortion giant, Planned Parenthood, and when he was Senator he made a point of voting for a bill to allow babies (that survived an abortion) to die. On previous bills he'd simply vote "present", but to kill an innocent, oh yes, he was all for it.

    I guess we can say that the rate has fallen *in spite of Obama* or that the rate was already falling because technology has increasingly developed to points where the pregnant mothers can actually *see* that they are carrying a baby--and Obama just happened to be in office when it was really noticed.
     
  13. Tallguy88

    Tallguy88 Theology Category Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Supporter CF Ambassador

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    I agree that technological advancement has helped curb the abortion rate. Just a few weeks ago, my sister showed me the video of her ultrasound. It was in 3D! I've never seen anything like it! You could see his face, hair, umm... parts, and everything like he was out in the open. Quite a wonderful thing, imo.
     
  14. TheOtherHockeyMom

    TheOtherHockeyMom Contributor

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    I agree that the new (although the 4D ultrasounds are at least 8 years old...have some incredible shots of both my boys) technology is amazing and helps inform people of the life they are carrying, I wonder about it's effectiveness in early term abortions. I had one six week ultrasound, and have seen images of many others, and it's a world of difference between a six week and a 20 week image. I was thrilled to see the little speck, as I called him, when I saw him at 6 weeks, and absolutely floored by what I saw at 20. I really wanted to go get my own ultrasound machine so I could just hang out and look at him all day....don't think they have do it yourself ones, though.
     
  15. Yoder777

    Yoder777 Senior Veteran

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    I am sorry if I worded my initial post in an attacking or confrontational manner. I am just honestly tired of Republicans accusing anyone who votes Democrat of somehow being anti-life, when Republicans don't seem to care about you once you are already born.
     
  16. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

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    See this previous thread - where i pasted the previous thread before that.
    The problem would be the sonogram causes high pitched sounds that actually bother the baby.
    Wouldnt be a great idea. As tempting as it is. Which is why they are seldom done.
    And honestly, i am sick to death of that attack.

    It is untrue, and insulting.


    I vote for conservatives because it means a difference between losing everything - and barely eating or getting ahead of debt so we could pay off our mortgage.
    Well, barely making it now - and its because of a democrat in office.

    If ppl care so much about the living - why are they voting in democrats who are destroying the economy which causes inflation making food prohibitive and increasing poverty and unemployment?
     
  17. Yoder777

    Yoder777 Senior Veteran

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    Does anyone see the irony in "pro-life" politics?

     
  18. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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    Very interesting information and thanks for placing it up. Others have long noted that addressing the issue of abortion via ways to produce abortion reduction via social programs/education and options is a part of how to seriously tackle abortion. And with the president's stances being going for the root of things as others have done, it's not surprising. Being pro-choice doesn't equate to being pro-abortion nor is it the case that one who is pro-life cannot support a platform offering choice and the ability to seriously tackle things.

    Frank Shaeffer (the son of Francis Shaeffer, the founder of the Religious Right and one who advocated for making abortion illegal) discussed the issue in-depth elsewhere before when it came to noting that He's actually pro-life. He has been called radical in some of his views..although Shaeffer's extreme stances often seem to be a response to the extremes others in the Religious Right have done and justified for decades..especially as it concerns it's disconnect from many of the issues impacting voters and the craziness of "End Times" politics and trying to get others to cease practical involvement in the environment/community or the world because of assuming it's all about to "burn up"/Jesus will come to rapture folks out...something that many Evangelicals cashed in on multiple times already. With Shaeffer, I'm not surprised as to why he often seems to have an ax to grind since the issue is indeed personal - as in the late 1970s, he helped found the &#8220;pro-life&#8221; movement in the US with his father and the late C. Everett Koop, who became Reagan&#8217;s Surgeon General. ..and during the 1980s, he worked with R.J. Rushdoony, the father of Christian Reconstructionism or Dominionism. It was not a small thing for the man to become disillusioned with fundamentalism during the 1980s and ultimately renouncehis former beliefs.

    Where he stands is that he's for others having the option of pro-choice and promoting pro-life stances by helping women/children and single mothers and promoting responsible fatherhood. He has often critiqued the Religious Right on saying they're "pro-life" and yet being selective on where they promote life. In one interview, Schaeffer told the interviewer that although he still believes that abortion is the unjust killing of an innocent human being, he also believes that, &#8220;If we&#8217;re going to reduce the number of abortions that happen in this country, we&#8217;ve got to recognise the failure of thirty years of effort&#8221; to overturn Roe v. Wade. &#8220;There&#8217;s a very big difference between bedrock moral belief and tactics,&#8221; he said. Pro-life advocates have a choice between &#8220;railing against&#8221; the election of Obama/other presidents who are pro-choice or &#8220;working with an administration that has clearly stated in its position paper that it would like to see the number of abortions reduced. But it&#8217;s not going to be done by overturning Roe v. Wade.&#8221;

    &#8220;When I say that I think abortion should remain legal, what I mean is that the tactic of putting all this energy into overturning Roe, is, I think, just whistling in the dark."..according to Shaeffer.
    Some may feel he's pretty radical in his oppostion to the Religious Right overall...but that's more so due to how much he saw them speak on the issue of abortion for the sake of profit/votes rather than really placing a dent on the matter by tackling it at the root. Other parties such as Democrats For Life of America have noted the same thing policy wise and others have shared on the issue before ( #46, #54 /#118/#119 /#158 #160 / #213 /#248 /#279 and ). With abortion, I don't think either the Left or the Right has done well in addressing the issue fully...as it's very complicated on multiple fronts and the sex-saturated/"Sexual Freedom and Pleasure without COST!!!" culture is at the root of many of the problems (pornagraphy being a big part of that as well)...with neither side fully addressing that elephant in the room harshly enough, even though many in the Church have called out the issue and noted how that is the main root disease behind all other symptoms Conservatives/Liberals keep trying to deal with (more shared in-depth here, here, here, here, here and here ).
     
  19. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassador

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    Very astute observation ..and being a single child of a single mother who had the experience of knowing what aid could do in helping her raise me while others said aid "encouraged problems", it hits close to home.

    In addition to decreasing aboriton through education and showing options, I think the biggest step in addressing the issue is adoption reform - making it more accessible for others to adopt children that mothers give up (more shared here, here, here, here, here, here and here).
     
  20. AvilaSurfer

    AvilaSurfer Leave the Gun. Take the Cannoli.

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    Personally I think just having him in the White House turns enough people's stomachs that sex in general has decreased, and abortions.
     
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