Abiogenesis, creation, and natural selection

theophilus40

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How did life originate? Most people believe that it began with a process called abiogenesis, the development of living organisms from nonliving mater. According to this belief a very simple life form came into existence and over millions of year its descendants changed through the process of evolution to produce the large variety of life that exists today.

Not everyone believes in abiogenesis and evolution. Some people believe the Bible’s account of how life originated; it was created by God only a few thousand years ago.

Believers in abiogenesis and creation both agree that new varieties of life are constantly being produced by a process called natural selection. An examination of how this process works might show whether abiogenesis or creation is the most likely starting point for it.

When some individuals are better adapted to their environment than others they are more likely to survive and produce offspring. If members of a species are found in a variety of different environments the characteristics that aid survival may be different in different areas and over time the organisms in each location will come to differ from each other as well as from the parent species.

Perhaps the most obvious example of natural selection is the many breeds of dogs that are all descended from a common ancestor. Some breeds are the result of deliberate breeding by people who wanted dogs that had specific characteristics. This is artificial selection rather than natural selection but it works the same way; dogs having the desired characteristic are allowed to reproduce but others are not.

The selection process is similar to what a sculptor does when he makes a statue out of a block of marble; he cuts away all of the unwanted parts of the marble but doesn’t add any material from outside. Natural selection works by the elimination of unwanted or undesirable genes. No new genes are produced. The common ancestor of dogs must have possessed all the the genetic information that is found in all breeds of dogs. This process goes back further; dogs, wolves, foxes, coyotes, and jackals have a common ancestor that possessed greater genetic diversity.

There is no way this process could have started with a simple one celled organism. (I mean simple in comparison with the life that exists today; even the simplest form of life is extremely complex.) Natural selection wouldn’t work because there would be too little to select from; it would be like a sculptor trying to make a large statue out of a grain of sand.

But what about the Bible’s account of creation?
And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:24-25 ESV

God created different kinds of life. If each of these kinds had a large gene pool with the potential for producing many different varieties of descendants their creation would lead to the process of natural selection we see today.

We aren’t told how many kinds there were but the number was small enough for Noah to take a pair of each kind onto the ark. Some people don’t believe the flood occurred because the ark wouldn’t have been big enough for all of the varieties of life that exist today. When you take the results of natural selection into account you can see that the number of animals Noah needed was very small.

The term natural selection was first used by Charles Darwin in Origin of Species, which was published in 1859. Our knowledge of genetics began with experiments performed by Gregor Mendel. The results of these experiments weren’t published until after his death in 1884 so Darwin knew nothing about them when he did the research for his book.

Darwin saw natural selection taking place but because he didn’t understand how heredity works he misinterpreted what he saw. He thought that the process produced completely new characteristics and therefore was evidence that his theories about the origin of life were true. Today almost everyone shares this belief and few people realize that the things we have learned about genetics since then have produced evidence that the belief isn’t true.
 

ChetSinger

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Amen!

I began looking into abiogenesis about 8 years ago out of curiosity, and a desire to perform better in some crevo arguments on internet forums.

And I've become convinced that abiogenesis is just impossible. No one's going to mix together chemicals and create a cell.

I see atheists already admitting this. Prof. Dawkins has speculated that life came from outer space, and now Eugene Koonin is even appealing to the multiverse, where he claims anything becomes possible.
 
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theophilus40

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I see atheists already admitting this. Prof. Dawkins has speculated that life came from outer space, and now Eugene Koonin is even appealing to the multiverse, where he claims anything becomes possible.
I didn't know this. Thanks for the information.
 
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Leuko Petra

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The Evidence of God's Creation, Literally...




Evolution and the Origin of Life: CrEvo Rant #63

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f02g9w241XI

Frogs are useful, part I: CrEvo Rant #93 with Wazooloo

Frogs are useful, part I: CrEvo Rant #93 with Wazooloo - YouTube

Frogs are useful, part II (Thermodynamics): CrEvo Rant #94 Wazooloo

Frogs are useful, part II (Thermodynamics): CrEvo Rant #94 Wazooloo - YouTube



More Rants - Here


Now, let's look at A-biogenesis:


A-biogenesis [Modern, re-hashed/named spontaneous generation] - Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


“Abiogenesis (pronounced /ˌeɪbaɪ.ɵˈdʒɛnɨsɪs/ AY-by-oh-JEN-ə-siss) or biopoiesis is the study of how biological life would arise from inorganic matter through natural processes. ...” [Wikipedia; Abiogenesis - Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ],a process which is not scientific, and violates scientific laws, like biogenesis.

“...abiogenesis, how living things originally arose from non-living material ...” [Wikipedia; Spontaneous Generation - Spontaneous generation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

“...The sequence of chemical events that led to the first nucleic acids is not known. ...” [Wikipedia; Abiogenesis - Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

“...Classical notions of abiogenesis, now more precisely known as spontaneous generation, held that certain complex, living organisms are generated by decaying organic substances. ...” [Wikipedia; Abiogenesis; subsection, “Spontaneous Generation” - Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

“...In 1861, Louis Pasteur performed a series of experiments which demonstrated that organisms such as bacteria and fungi do not spontaneously appear in sterile, nutrient-rich media. ...” [Wikipedia; Abiogenesis; subsection, “Spontaneous Generation” - Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

“...There is no truly "standard model" of the origin of life. ...” [Wikipedia; Abiogenesis; subsection “Current Models - Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

“... No one has synthesized a "protocell" using basic components which would have the necessary properties of life ...” [Wikipedia; Abiogenesis; subsection “Current Models” - Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

“...Whether the mixture of gases used in the Miller–Urey experiment
truly reflects the atmospheric content of early Earth is a controversial topic. ...” [Wikipedia; Abiogenesis; sub-subsection “reducing atmosphere” - Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

“... The "soup" theory relies on the assumption proposed by Darwin that in an environment with no pre-existing life, organic molecules may have accumulated and provided an environment for chemical evolution. ...” [Wikiepdia; Abiogenesis; sub-subsection “Regarding monomer accumulation” - Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

“...The spontaneous formation of complex polymers from abiotically generated monomers under the conditions posited by the "soup" theory is not at all a straightforward process. Besides the necessary basic organic monomers, compounds that would have prohibited the formation of polymers were formed in high concentration during the Miller–Urey and Oró experiments. The Miller experiment, for example, produces many substances that would undergo cross-reactions with the amino acids or terminate the peptide chain.

More fundamentally, it can be argued that the most crucial challenge unanswered by this theory is how the relatively simple organic building blocks polymerise and form more complex structures, interacting in consistent ways to form a protocell. For example, in an aqueous environment hydrolysis of oligomers/polymers into their constituent monomers would be favored over the condensation of individual monomers into polymers. ...” [Wikipedia; Abiogenesis; sub-subsection “regarding further transformation” - Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

“...Some process in chemical evolution must account for the origin of homochirality, i.e. all building blocks in living organisms having the same "handedness" (amino acids being left-handed, nucleic acid sugars (ribose and deoxyribose) being right-handed, and chiral phosphoglycerides). Chiral molecules can be synthesized, but in the absence of a chiral source or a chiral catalyst, they are formed in a 50/50 mixture of both enantiomers. This is called a racemic mixture. Clark has suggested that homochirality may have started in space, ...” [Wikipedia; Abiogenesis; subsection “Models to explain Homochirality” - Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ], that's right, when all else fails to be able to produce it on earth, they move it "off world"... nope not done here, but maybe a long time ago in a galaxy far far away...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-hbg4lTyEs

“...The question "How do simple organic molecules form a protocell?" is largely unanswered ...” [Wikipedia; Abiogenesis; subsection “From organic molecules to protocells” - Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBRl4RfKjAU

“...Possible role of bubbles...” [Wikipedia; Abiogenesis - Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ], this is science?

“Spontaneous generation or Equivocal generation is an obsolete principle regarding the origin of life from inanimate matter … The disproof of ongoing spontaneous generation is no longer controversial … It is generally accepted to have been ultimately disproven in the 19th century by the experiments of Louis Pasteur, expanding upon the experiments of other scientists before him (such as Francesco Redi who had performed similar experiments in the 17th century). … Louis Pasteur's 1859 experiment put the question to rest.” [Wikiepdia; Spontaneous Generation - Spontaneous generation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

“Spontaneous generation refers to both the supposed process by which life would systematically emerge from sources other than seeds, eggs or parents and to the theories which explained the apparent phenomenon. The first form is abiogenesis, in which life emerges from non-living matter. This should not be confused for the modern hypothesis of abiogenesis, in which life emerged once and diversified. ...” [Wikipedia; Spontaneous Generation; subsection “Description” - Spontaneous generation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ], the "modern version" is merely a re-worked version of "spontaneous generation", which has been shown to be invalid, and they even call it as such, and place that all encompassing word "emerged" in it.
 
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Assyrian

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The problem with trying to use Pasteur to argue against abiogenesis is that Pasteur completely disagreed with you.
Louis Pasteur - Wikiquote
The universe is asymmetric and I am persuaded that life, as it is known to us, is a direct result of the asymmetry of the universe or of its indirect consequences. The universe is asymmetric.
Works Vol. 1 (1 June 1874) Comptes Rendus de l'Académie des Sciences


 
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juvenissun

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That made my eyeballs hurt. I wonder if it said anything.

It reminds me about students presentation. They have a laser pointer at hand and swing it all over in-and-out the screen like a light saber . :D
 
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gluadys

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How did life originate? Most people believe that it began with a process called abiogenesis, the development of living organisms from nonliving mater. According to this belief a very simple life form came into existence and over millions of year its descendants changed through the process of evolution to produce the large variety of life that exists today.

Not everyone believes in abiogenesis and evolution. Some people believe the Bible’s account of how life originated; it was created by God only a few thousand years ago.

Believers in abiogenesis and creation both agree that new varieties of life are constantly being produced by a process called natural selection. An examination of how this process works might show whether abiogenesis or creation is the most likely starting point for it.


I don't agree with setting abiogenesis and creation in opposition like this.

Abiogenesis, however it happened, IS creation.

The proper contrast is between abiogenesis as a natural process and abiogenesis as a miraculous process.

But either way, for one who believes in a Creator, it is creation.

As a miraculous process, abiogenesis is the production of living creatures from non-living matter instantaneously when God commanded it.

As a natural process, abiogenesis is the production of living creatures from non-living matter over a period of time as God directed the forces of nature He had already created.

It is not a scientific statement to say that abiogenesis is the production of living creatures from non-living matter all on its own without God. That is atheism, not science.


We are not here to debate atheism. We debate what process God used to create life. Instantaneous miracle or natural process directed by God? That is the heart of the debate within Christianity.
 
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Aman777

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Originally Posted by sfs
That made my eyeballs hurt. I wonder if it said anything.
Juv:>>It reminds me about students presentation. They have a laser pointer at hand and swing it all over in-and-out the screen like a light saber . :D

Dear Readers, God tells us where "every living creature that moveth" was created. It was in the water on the 5th Day, in God's time and 3.7 Billion years ago, in man's time. Science agrees that cells cannot live without liquid water. Genesis 1:21 SETI agrees and seeks to find life on Planets with liquid water.

This knowledge also shows that life will be found throughout the Universe where we find liquid water. Human life will NOT be found though, since there was but one Ark, and ALL Humans are the descendants of Adam, through Noah.

In Love,
Aman
 
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