Discussion Abba Father .. vs daddy or papa ???

[Alithis]

is it actualy correct to change the term into what i personally call "toddlerese " (toddlerese is the fun term i use to describe when 2 - 4 year olds are talking and while understandable at times by thier mums do not fully speak with clarity yet )

a toddler ..an infant child uses the term Daddy or papa (or many variations throughout the world of language )..it is an innocent term with no agenda or intent - a term of recognition without understanding .

in truth it's not really even a term of endearment at such an age for the infant cannot voice such understandings of endearment r reason them out .

In contrast ,David & solomon spoke with deep phrases expressing endearment while Never separating it from reverence ..where as daddy or papa .. shows neither .
i understand its use in terms of a brand new believer ,whom the scripture refers to as "babes in christ "
but also tells us of the need to "grow up " !

abba father is not one word .it is two .. it expresses deep intimate endearment in the word abba AND deep reverence in regard to the word "Father "
in simplicity we render it as daddy father .. but a deeper look it culd as easily be phrased "my father" or a trm of returning to the origin of our creation .

but to use it irreverently is more like a child who cant yet say "father " saying "fata" -when that child further grows and develops they wil then say "father "

when i hear beleivers who have supposedly been believed for many years start referring to the most high god as daddy ..with out the accompanying reverence .. it has never sat right with in my heart ..
thoughts ?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Israeli movies I have watched, the children run to their dad saying Abba

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Israeli movies I have watched, the children run to their dad saying Abba

sorry about that attachment thingy, I did not attach anything, at least not on purpose :I

 

[Alithis]

sorry about that attachment thingy, I did not attach anything, at least not on purpose :I

no prob ..

but the point is sort of Backed up there .. "children" ... young,babes ... they do not yet speak with the endearment of reverence ..all entwined .

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

no prob ..

but the point is sort of Backed up there .. "children" ... young,babes ... they do not yet speak with the endearment of reverence ..all entwined .

I'm not arguing with you. I understand what you're saying and agree. However, Abba is not quite as informal of a word in Hebrew as daddy is in English. In the Israeli movies the adults refer to their dads as abba also.

"Abba" is kinda like "daddy" but not quite as informal I think that God has many titles and we should not necessarily settle down to just one of them...not that that is what you're saying, just that I don't think that referring to Him as Abba is less respectful. Now, after saying that, I do think that many believers do take His title, Abba too lightly and throw it around in a frivolous way.

• The NT itself gives quite a different reading of αββα. Each of the three occurrences of αββα in the NT is followed by the Greek translation ο πατερ, “the father.” This translation makes clear its meaning to the writers; the form is a literal translation — “father” plus a definite article — and like abba can also be a vocative. But it is not a diminutive of “babytalk” form. There are Greek diminutives of father (e.g., παππας [pappas]), and the community chose not to use them.
  
  –Mary Rose D’Angelo. Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 111, No. 4 (Winter, 1992), pp. 615-616
  

​

 

[Alithis]

I'm not arguing with you. I understand what you're saying and agree. However, Abba is not quite as informal of a word in Hebrew as daddy is in English. In the Israeli movies the adults refer to their dads as abba also.

"Abba" is kinda like "daddy" but not quite as informal I think that God has many titles and we should not necessarily settle down to just one of them...not that that is what you're saying, just that I don't think that referring to Him as Abba is less respectful. Now, after saying that, I do think that many believers do take His title, Abba too lightly and throw it around in a frivolous way.

• The NT itself gives quite a different reading of αββα. Each of the three occurrences of αββα in the NT is followed by the Greek translation ο πατερ, “the father.” This translation makes clear its meaning to the writers; the form is a literal translation — “father” plus a definite article — and like abba can also be a vocative. But it is not a diminutive of “babytalk” form. There are Greek diminutives of father (e.g., παππας [pappas]), and the community chose not to use them.
  
  –Mary Rose D’Angelo. Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 111, No. 4 (Winter, 1992), pp. 615-616

​

ahh thanks for that -interesting

i just find the way it is starting to be used in the west "by some".. lacks the reverent nature of it ..its getting "lost in translation" you might say

 

[JackRT]

A similar term of endearment is "Rabboni" of a wife for her Rabbi husband.

 

[FoundInGrace]

I dont think we ever grow past needing God as our Abba Father. I remember praying in a prayer meeting thanking my Father God that i could curl up on His knee and rest in His love. God had just freed me and this revelation of Father God loving me as His child was so dear to me but a woman in the prayer meeting rebuked me for being too familiar with God and not respectful enough. It hurt and she did not understand that God was ministering His Father heart to one such as me. I think we need to be careful not to judge others walk with God as a lack of respect because it might not be, at least in my case it wasnt, it was just gratefulness.

 

[Alithis]

I dont think we ever grow past needing God as our Abba Father. I remember praying in a prayer meeting thanking my Father God that i could curl up on His knee and rest in His love. God had just freed me and this revelation of Father God loving me as His child was so dear to me but a woman in the prayer meeting rebuked me for being too familiar with God and not respectful enough. It hurt and she did not understand that God was ministering His Father heart to one such as me.

i know what you speak of ..and i do not discount such terms of intimacy.. but being "intimate " the proverbial prayer closet is a better place for it .sure not the only place .. but a better place .

we know that John was often the one with his head on the lord's shoulder or chest , we know from this of the depth of love .. yet we only ever see John speak of the lord and his love in the most reverent and glorifying terms ,intimate but never assumingly familiar ..endearingly but always as LORD and MASTER ..most holy .-its a good example methinks .

 

[FoundInGrace]

i know what you speak of ..and i do not discount such terms of intimacy.. but being "intimate " the proverbial prayer closet is a better place for it .sure not the only place .. but a better place .

we know that John was often the one with his head on the lord's shoulder or chest , we know from this of the depth of love .. yet we only ever see John speak of the lord and his love in the most reverent and glorifying terms ,intimate but never assumingly familiar ..endearingly but always as LORD and MASTER ..most holy .-its a good example methinks .

I disagree and again feel rebuked.. by you this time for being grateful for Abba Father's love.

If one can not pray and thank our Father God for His unconditional love with other believers when it says where two or three are gathered there He is also, then something is wrong, especially new believers who are discovering the love of their Creator. I will not shut down a new believer's prayers to their Father God who they are just getting to know and indeed often know in a more real and pray in a more authentic way than some who say they have known God for many years.

The woman who broke the perfume bottle was rebuked by others but not by the Lord - should she have done that in private?? = no , it was completely accepted by the Lord and He honored her anointing Him. The Lord even promised that she did would be remembered, she would be remembered for her outpouring of gratefulness for His love! and yet others rebuked and rebuked her. I will take the Lord God's acceptance over others rebuke any day. God sees our hearts and that is what matters.

 

[Alithis]

I disagree and again feel rebuked.. by you this time for being grateful for Abba Father's love.

If one can not pray and thank our Father God for His unconditional love with other believers when it says where two or three are gathered there He is also, then something is wrong, especially new believers who are discovering the love of their Creator. I will not shut down a new believer's prayers to their Father God who they are just getting to know and indeed often know in a more real and pray in a more authentic way than some who say they have known God for many years.

The woman who broke the perfume bottle was rebuked by others but not by the Lord - should she have done that in private?? = no , it was completely accepted by the Lord and He honored her anointing Him. The Lord even promised that she did would be remembered, she would be remembered for her outpouring of gratefulness for His love! and yet others rebuked and rebuked her. I will take the Lord God's acceptance over others rebuke any day. God sees our hearts and that is what matters.

this is a little odd that you would feel rebuked .. nothing said was about you specifically ..sometimes we need to discuss a topic without personalizing it ..this is so we can discuss it objectively and not be too easily offended at every turn of inference that may indirectly be implied when there was no intention .

 

[South Bound]

is it actualy correct to change the term into what i personally call "toddlerese " (toddlerese is the fun term i use to describe when 2 - 4 year olds are talking and while understandable at times by thier mums do not fully speak with clarity yet )

a toddler ..an infant child uses the term Daddy or papa (or many variations throughout the world of language )..it is an innocent term with no agenda or intent - a term of recognition without understanding .

in truth it's not really even a term of endearment at such an age for the infant cannot voice such understandings of endearment r reason them out .

In contrast ,David & solomon spoke with deep phrases expressing endearment while Never separating it from reverence ..where as daddy or papa .. shows neither .
i understand its use in terms of a brand new believer ,whom the scripture refers to as "babes in christ "
but also tells us of the need to "grow up " !

abba father is not one word .it is two .. it expresses deep intimate endearment in the word abba AND deep reverence in regard to the word "Father "
in simplicity we render it as daddy father .. but a deeper look it culd as easily be phrased "my father" or a trm of returning to the origin of our creation .

but to use it irreverently is more like a child who cant yet say "father " saying "fata" -when that child further grows and develops they wil then say "father "

when i hear beleivers who have supposedly been believed for many years start referring to the most high god as daddy ..with out the accompanying reverence .. it has never sat right with in my heart ..
thoughts ?

It's an affectation. It's like when Obama is speaking and comes to a Spanish word and says it with a Spanish accent because he thinks it gives him credibility (although, oddly, he never does that with any other language...but I digress).

Jesus was just giving us an analogy, not telling us we could address God so casually.

 

[Alithis]

It's an affectation. It's like when Obama is speaking and comes to a Spanish word and says it with a Spanish accent because he thinks it gives him credibility (although, oddly, he never does that with any other language...but I digress).

Jesus was just giving us an analogy, not telling us we could address God so casually.

i agree..and as demonstration he never did so publicly himself.

 

[geetrue]

"Abba" I love you is acceptable in the Spirit if you use it with love ...

When a small child says the word 'abba' it is with love for their daddy, their father, the man of the house.
I heard a small child of say 4 years old say the word 'abba' ... over and over again she said, "when will 'abba' be home" and each time it was with love for her father that was not at home. I didn't ask what country she was from for it was a chance meeting in LA while walking past their storage shed.

Do others beside the Jews use the word 'abba'?

I now use the word with love because she used the word with love. Plus I might add that I have never called anyone daddy or father one of those quirks of being left behind.

 

[FoundInGrace]

How disrespectful of the child to use Abba in public... That is apparently only for use when she and her Father are alone in private.

 

[Alithis]

"Abba" I love you is acceptable in the Spirit if you use it with love ...

When a small child says the word 'abba' it is with love for their daddy, their father, the man of the house.
I heard a small child of say 4 years old say the word 'abba' ... over and over again she said, "when will 'abba' be home" and each time it was with love for her father that was not at home. I didn't ask what country she was from for it was a chance meeting in LA while walking past their storage shed.

Do others beside the Jews use the word 'abba'?

I now use the word with love because she used the word with love. Plus I might add that I have never called anyone daddy or father one of those quirks of being left behind.

of course it is .. that is not and never was the point of the thread .

 

[Alithis]

How disrespectful of the child to use Abba in public... That is apparently only for use when she and her Father are alone in private.

edit .

edit -as point was made and need not be public

 

[FoundInGrace]

It touched a nerve I'll admit.
I have an interesting link to a great article on this topic which talks about having both which I think is quite balanced. I can't post it from my phone but will post it when I get home from work (I am on my tea break).

 

[Alithis]

It touched a nerve I'll admit.
I have an interesting link to a great article on this topic which talks about having both which I think is quite balanced. I can't post it from my phone but will post it when I get home from work (I am on my tea break).

that would be great .. thank you

i must say im speaking of that area where people overly use the terminology without the reverence ..i have no problem with the meanings behind the word .. but when you think of it ..the english term "Father " has exactly the same connotations .. its all in the manner and attitude it is used . so we need not say " daddy God " when "father is more then sufficient to portray all the attributes we wish to imply .

and yes there is a certain amount of "perception" involved .. for instance on my part i have to admit the use of the term (in english) "daddy" has mixed connotations .where as i personally find "father " both endearing and respectful all at the same time
(maybe different for some one who came out of the rcc and had a bad experience with some one titled "father .. *cringe * )

 

[FoundInGrace]

http://www.thehighcalling.org/articles/daily-reflection/calling-god-abba-father-1

Calling God “Abba, Father”
by Mark Roberts
Feb 9, 2009

So you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God’s Spirit when he adopted you as his own children. Now we call him, “Abba, Father.”



Romans 8:15

Because we have been adopted into God’s family, we are privileged to call him “Abba, Father.” The word abba is an Aramaic word, one that was used by Jesus himself and echoed in the earliest Christian community, which spoke Aramaic (a language close to Hebrew). Abba was a word used by children for their father, something like “daddy” or “papa” today. But it was also a term of respect used by adult children for their fathers. Thus the word abba richly expresses our relationship with God. We are dependent upon him like little children. We are free to run to him as children run to their daddies. Yet we also offer God the highest respect and adult love.

Too often Christians put too much weight on only one aspect of what it means for God to be Abba. Some emphasize the “Daddy” meaning of the word, encouraging us in our intimacy and dependence upon God, but neglecting the respect and obedience we owe him. Others major in the “Father” sense of Abba, calling us to live our lives according to his dictates and for his glory. In truth, our Heavenly Father is both “Daddy” and “Father.” The more we grow in relationship with him, the more we will hold together the diverse ways in which he is a father to us.

QUESTIONS FOR REFLECTION: When you call God “Father,” what does this mean to you? How might you have a more complete relationship with God as your Abba?

PRAYER: Gracious God, my Abba, what an extraordinary privilege it is to call you Father. How grateful I am that Jesus has invited me into his relationship with you. What a wonder that the Son enables me to be your child as well. Thank you, dear Father, for the relationship I have with you through Christ.

Help me, Lord, to grow in this relationship. May I run to you as a young child to his daddy, enjoying your security and embrace. And may I also live my life out of respect for you.

Thank you, dear Father, for the Spirit who helps me to know you as my Abba. What a gift you have given me in the Spirit! Amen.

_________________________________________________________________________
Mark Roberts is the Executive Director of Digital Media and the Theological and Cultural Steward for Foundations for Laity Renewal. As Executive Director, Mark oversees The High Calling team and...