A verse that single-handedly destroys the dispensational delusion!

[MWood]

On which scriptures do you base your belief that Jeremiah 31, is not the new covenant, by grace through faith in Christ? Which you call the new covenant of the Blood.

These scriptures

MAT 26:28
MAR 14:24
LUKE 22;20
1COR 11:25
2COR 3:6
HEB 9:15
HEB 9:20

 

[ron4shua]

http://www2.mf.no/bibelprog/vines?word=%AFt0001394 ;
<A-1,Noun,38,hagiasmos>
translated "holiness" in the AV of Rom. 6:19,22; 1 Thess. 4:7; 1 Tim. 2:15; Heb. 12:14, is always rendered "sanctification" in the RV. It signifies (a) separation to God, 1 Cor. 1:30; 2 Thess. 2:13; 1 Pet. 1:2; (b) the resultant state, the conduct befitting those so separated, 1 Thess. 4:3,4,7, and the four other places mentioned above. "Sanctification" is thus the state predetermined by God for believers, into which in grace He calls them, and in which they begin their Christian course and so pursue it. Hence they are called "saints" (hagioi). See SANTIFICATION.

Note: The corresponding verb hagiazo denotes "to set apart to God." See HALLOW, SANCTIFY.

http://biblehub.com/isr/hebrews/12.htm ; 14Pursue peace with all, and pursue apartness without which no one shall see the Master.

http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bcc/view.cgi?book=jer&chapter=031 ; " Nevertheless, the requirement of holiness is nowhere eliminated or cancelled in the New Testament, but the Lord specifically declared that, "Without holiness, no man shall see God" (Hebrews 12:14)."
[ " Of the dozens of scholars whose works we have been privileged to read, only George DeHoff gave the true explanation of what is meant here.

"Under the new covenant of Christ men are taught before they become Christians. Then they obey the gospel. Under the old covenant a child was a Jew as soon as he was born and had to be taught this fact after he was old enough to understand."[15] ]

Each one ( one on ONE ) obedient in their , own time .

Hallelu-YAH .

 

[Hank77]

Each one ( one on ONE ) obedient in their , own time .

Amen.

These scriptures

MAT 26:28
MAR 14:24
LUKE 22;20
1COR 11:25
2COR 3:6
HEB 9:15
HEB 9:20

The Gospel scriptures speak of the blood covenant but how does the relate to your statement about Jeremiah 31?

I Corinth 11:25 - the blood covenant
2 Corinth 3:6 - new covenant, not the old covenant written on stone tablets
Heb 9:15 - not the old covenant law
Heb 9:20 - blood covenant

I think we have a miscommunication. Maybe I have misunderstood you. This is what you said....

You are right, We and They are under the new covenant of the Blood of Jesus. Not the covenant of Jer.31.

I asked...

On which scriptures do you base your belief that Jeremiah 31, is not the new covenant

I don't understand how any of the scriptures you have listed relate to my question.
Do you believe Jeremiah 31, is yet another covenant? If so why?

 

[BABerean2]

Wonderful! What do you now believe?

It is found in Post #52 above.

.

 

[MWood]

Amen.

The Gospel scriptures speak of the blood covenant but how does the relate to your statement about Jeremiah 31?

I Corinth 11:25 - the blood covenant
2 Corinth 3:6 - new covenant, not the old covenant written on stone tablets
Heb 9:15 - not the old covenant law
Heb 9:20 - blood covenant

I think we have a miscommunication. Maybe I have misunderstood you. This is what you said....

I asked...

I don't understand how any of the scriptures you have listed relate to my question.
Do you believe Jeremiah 31, is yet another covenant? If so why?

The covenant that everyone is under today is the Blood covenant. Jer.31 is a new covenant that Gods Chosen People will be given for the thousand year reign.

 

[Hank77]

Jer.31 is a new covenant that Gods Chosen People will be given for the thousand year reign.

What scripture teaches you this? I'm not saying you are wrong. Many people believe this. But I don't know which scriptures say this.

 

[ron4shua]

http://biblehub.com/isr/galatians/3.htm

20The Mediator, however, is not of one, but Elohim is one.

21Is the Torah then against the promises of Elohim? Let it not be! For if a law had been given that was able to make alive, truly righteousness would have been by Torah.

22But the Scripture has shut up all mankind under sin, that the promise by belief in יהושע Messiah might be given to those who believe.

23But before belief came, we were being guarded under Torah, having been shut up for the belief being about to be revealed.

24Therefore the Torah became our trainer unto Messiah, in order to be declared right by belief.

25And after belief has come, we are no longer under a trainer.

26For you are all sons of Elohim through belief in Messiah יהושע.

27For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah.

28There is not Yehuḏite nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah יהושע.

29And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.

Hallelu-YAH .

 

[ron4shua]

1Sha’ul, an emissary – not from men, nor by a man, but by יהושע Messiah and Elohim the Father who raised Him from the dead –

2and all the brothers who are with me, to the assemblies of Galatia:

3Favour to you and peace from Elohim the Father and our Master יהושע Messiah,

4who gave Himself for our sins, to deliver us out of this present wicked age, according to the desire of our Elohim and Father,

5to whom be the praise forever and ever. Amĕn.

6I marvel that you are so readily turning away from Him who called you in the favour of Messiah, to a different ‘Good News,’a

7which is not another, only there are some who are troubling you and wishing to pervert the Good News of Messiah.

8However, even if we, or a messenger out of heaven, bring a ‘Good News’ to you beside what we announced to you, let him be accursed.

9As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone brings a ‘Good News’ to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed.

10For do I now persuade men, or Elohim? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I should not be a servant of Messiah.

11And I make known to you, brothers, that the Good News announced by me is not according to man.

12For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but through a revelation of יהושע Messiah.

 

[Job8]

If they are now under the New Covenant, why do we yet have to continue to remind every man our neighbor, and every man our brother to know the Lord? The New Covenant that we are under now is the Blood in the cup.

There is always confusion when people try to equate the Church with redeemed and restored Israel.

The New Covenant began the day that the Lamb of God shed His own precious blood for the remission of sins. That is an eternal Covenant since the blood of Christ -- who is God -- has infinite value (Acts 20:28). This same New Covenant will apply to redeemed and restored Israel AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. There are only two covenants pertaining to God's relationship with sinners -- the Old Covenant, where the blood of animals COVERED sin for a season, and the New Covenant, where the blood of the Lamb of God TOOK AWAY sin.

At the present time, Israel is spiritually blind (in part) and God does not distinguish between Jew and Gentile, either for the propagation of the Gospel, or within the Church (Jew and Gentile in one Body without distinction). Once the Church is complete, God will resume His dealings with Israel and the Jews, and will eventually establish the restored kingdom of Israel on earth. That is when no man will have to remind his neighbor and brother "to know the Lord", because all of Israel will be redeemed at that time. (This will in no wise affect the position of the Church in relation to Christ).

 

[ron4shua]

" restored Israel "
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=restored+Israel&qs_version=KJV
http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/search/
http://biblehub.net/search.php?q=restored+Israel

" All are one "
http://biblehub.net/search.php?q=all+are+one
http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/search/
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=all+are+one&qs_version=KJV

10For it was fitting for Him, because of whom all are and through whom all are, in bringing many sons to esteem, to make the Princely Leader of their deliverance perfect through sufferings.

11For both He who sets apart and those who are being set apart are all of One, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brothers,

12saying, “I shall announce Your Name to My brothers,a in the midst of the congregation I shall sing praise to You.”

Hallelu-YAH .

13And again, “I shall put My trust in Him.” And again, “See, I and the children whom Elohim gave Me.”

 

[MWood]

What scripture teaches you this? I'm not saying you are wrong. Many people believe this. But I don't know which scriptures say this.

Read Jer. 31:31. These are the scriptures that teaches this.

 

[MWood]

There is always confusion when people try to equate the Church with redeemed and restored Israel.

The New Covenant began the day that the Lamb of God shed His own precious blood for the remission of sins. That is an eternal Covenant since the blood of Christ -- who is God -- has infinite value (Acts 20:28). This same New Covenant will apply to redeemed and restored Israel AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. There are only two covenants pertaining to God's relationship with sinners -- the Old Covenant, where the blood of animals COVERED sin for a season, and the New Covenant, where the blood of the Lamb of God TOOK AWAY sin.

At the present time, Israel is spiritually blind (in part) and God does not distinguish between Jew and Gentile, either for the propagation of the Gospel, or within the Church (Jew and Gentile in one Body without distinction). Once the Church is complete, God will resume His dealings with Israel and the Jews, and will eventually establish the restored kingdom of Israel on earth. That is when no man will have to remind his neighbor and brother "to know the Lord", because all of Israel will be redeemed at that time. (This will in no wise affect the position of the Church in relation to Christ).

Job, the only thing I have a problem with in what you have said here is, that the blood covenant will be the covenant that Israel and Juda will be under when Jesus comes back to earth to reign for the millennium. This blood covenant is the covenant that we (Jew and Gentile) are under now. The covenant that the restored Israel will be under will be the covenant of Jer.31.

 

[Job8]

Job, the only thing I have a problem with in what you have said here is, that the blood covenant will be the covenant that Israel and Juda will be under when Jesus comes back to earth to reign for the millennium. This blood covenant is the covenant that we (Jew and Gentile) are under now. The covenant that the restored Israel will be under will be the covenant of Jer.31.

MWood,
We can establish from Scripture that the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 is integral to the New Covenant of the New Testament in the blood of Christ, which extends into the Millennium and beyod:

Jeremiah 31:31-34 (Prophesied about 600 BC)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:6-13 (ratified with the Blood of Christ)
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Hank77]

Read Jer. 31:31. These are the scriptures that teaches this.

So you believe that Hebrews 8:8-13 is not talking about this new covenant but another future covenant?

 

[ron4shua]

19The woman said to Him, “Master, I see that You are a prophet.

20“Our fathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that in Yerushalayim is the place where one needs to worship.”

21יהושע said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you shall neither on this mountain, nor in Yerushalayim, worship the Father.

22“You worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because the deliverance is of the Yehuḏim.a

23“
19The woman said to Him, “Master, I see that You are a prophet.

20“Our fathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that in Yerushalayim is the place where one needs to worship.”

21יהושע said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you shall neither on this mountain, nor in Yerushalayim, worship the Father.

22“You worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because the deliverance is of the Yehuḏim.a

23“But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also does seek such to worship Him.

24“Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship in spirit and truth.”

25The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming, the One who is called Anointed. When that One comes, He shall announce to us all.”

26יהושע said to her, “I who am speaking to you am He.”
, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also does seek such to worship Him.

24“Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship in spirit and truth.”

25The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming, the One who is called Anointed. When that One comes, He shall announce to us all.”

26יהושע said to her, “I who am speaking to you am He.”

 

[MWood]

MWood,
We can establish from Scripture that the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 is integral to the New Covenant of the New Testament in the blood of Christ, which extends into the Millennium and beyod:

Jeremiah 31:31-34 (Prophesied about 600 BC)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:6-13 (ratified with the Blood of Christ)
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

There is no indication in any of these scriptures that a covenant of blood would be made to anyone at any time. Especially a covenant for both the Israelites and the Gentiles. The covenant of the blood will end when the saints are caught up into the clouds to be with the Lord. It is a part of this age of grace, till the fullness of the gentiles be come in.
The covenant of Jer. 31 will be given to Gods chosen people during the millennium reign of Christ. It is not now in effect, nor is it an integral of the New Testament Covenant of Blood. Nor will the covenant of blood carry over into the 1000 year reign.

 

[MWood]

So you believe that Hebrews 8:8-13 is not talking about this new covenant but another future covenant?

There are two covenants that we have been discussing. The Jer.31 covenant is a future covenant that will be given to Israel and Juda at a time in the future. Which is also the same one that is mentioned in Heb. 8.
The other covenant we are discussing is the covenant of the blood that Jesus talked about in the scriptures that I gave you in another post.

 

[Job8]

The other covenant we are discussing is the covenant of the blood that Jesus talked about in the scriptures that I gave you in another post.

I believe you have a misunderstanding. Just as the blood of animals ratified the Old Covenant, the shed blood of Christ has ratified the New Covenant. Jesus said "This is the New Testament (Covenant) in my blood". There is no other "blood covenant" in Scripture.

 

[Hank77]

The Jer.31 covenant is a future covenant that will be given to Israel and Juda at a time in the future. Which is also the same one that is mentioned in Heb. 8.

OK, just making sure that is what you believe. I don't agree with you and frankly I believe this interpretation is very harmful to the Jewish people, who do not know their Messiah.
It is also harmful to the Christian, because if those words are not the new covenant, then what law is written on our hearts/minds? Are we still accountable to God for the sins of our fathers? Generational curses?
It also means that the old covenant is still in effect. Which means that in order to be one of His Chosen People, one has to be circumcised and abide by Moses' Law, that is what it commands for a proselyte.

 

[MWood]

OK, just making sure that is what you believe. I don't agree with you and frankly I believe this interpretation is very harmful to the Jewish people, who do not know their Messiah.
It is also harmful to the Christian, because if those words are not the new covenant, then what law is written on our hearts/minds? Are we still accountable to God for the sins of our fathers? Generational curses?
It also means that the old covenant is still in effect. Which means that in order to be one of His Chosen People, one has to be circumcised and abide by Moses' Law, that is what it commands for a proselyte.

Do we have the laws written into our minds, and written in our hearts? Do we have too continuously remind every man our neighbor and every man our brother to know the Lord? For all would know the Lord, from the least to the greatest. This has not happened yet. We are always reminding everyone to know the Lord, and will continue until Jesus comes back the second time.