A verse that single-handedly destroys the dispensational delusion!

[TheSeabass]

These verses don't show that they preached the same gospel.

Gal 1:23 shows that Paul preached the faith he once destroyed, he preached the faith in Acts chapters 2-8 up to his conversion then after his conversion PAUL preached the faith SAUL once destroyed in Acts chapters 2-8.

 

[MWood]

Well, if you do not find Galatians 1:6-9 to clear up the issue, nothing I could ever say could do any better.

You are so right. There is no place or scripture that shows that Paul and the Twelve preached the same gospel. Gal 1:6-9,Paul is talking about the Gospel that He preached to them. This is the same gospel that Jesus revealed to him some time after chapter 9 in the book of Acts. It is a different gospel than the one that Peter and the eleven were preaching. It is also different than the gospel that Jesus was preaching. The twelve and Jesus preached the same gospel. Paul preached a different gospel. Study the book of Acts, you will see the change. Then study the letters of Paul. You will see the difference in the gospels.

Go back to Gal 1:1 and see what it says. Continue on through the rest of the chapter. It is self explainitory

 

[MWood]

Gal 1:23 shows that Paul preached the faith he once destroyed, he preached the faith in Acts chapters 2-8 up to his conversion then after his conversion PAUL preached the faith SAUL once destroyed in Acts chapters 2-8.

Gal 1:23 speaks of a faith of a different gospel. Jesus and the twelve were preaching the "Gospel of the Kingdom." As found in Matt 4:23, Matt 9:35, Matt 24:14, Mark 1:13-15. This is the faith that Jesus is the Son of God sent to be the Messiah of the Nation of Israel. The Son of David to sit on the Throne of David and rule as the King over the Nation of Israel. And they rejected Him.

The other faith is of the other gospel. It is faith in the finished cross work of Christ. Their faith of Jesus being the Son of God, Their faith in His death, burial, and resurrection. The cross work of Christ was not complete until after He ascended up to Heaven. Jesus didn't explain any of His cross work to the twelve. So they couldn't preach it.

He gave it to Paul and he preached it. He wrote it in his letters. This a different gospel than what Jesus and the twelve were preaching. The Gospel of the Grace of God. Acts 20:4.

 

[TheSeabass]

Gal 1:23 speaks of a faith of a different gospel. Jesus and the twelve were preaching the "Gospel of the Kingdom." As found in Matt 4:23, Matt 9:35, Matt 24:14, Mark 1:13-15. This is the faith that Jesus is the Son of God sent to be the Messiah of the Nation of Israel. The Son of David to sit on the Throne of David and rule as the King over the Nation of Israel. And they rejected Him.

The other faith is of the other gospel. It is faith in the finished cross work of Christ. Their faith of Jesus being the Son of God, Their faith in His death, burial, and resurrection. The cross work of Christ was not complete until after He ascended up to Heaven. Jesus didn't explain any of His cross work to the twelve. So they couldn't preach it.

He gave it to Paul and he preached it. He wrote it in his letters. This a different gospel than what Jesus and the twelve were preaching. The Gospel of the Grace of God. Acts 20:4.

Breaking Gal 1:23 down it says:

Paul now preacheth- Paul was currently preaching

the faith - the gospel system of faith, the body of information found within the NT gospel. THE faith as opposed to A faith with the article THE denoting one particular faith.

he once destroyed - Paul was NOT currently preaching anything different from what he once destroyed. Paul was preaching THE faith, THE gospel that he once destroyed. What was is that Saul was destroying but now preaching? Saul was destroying THE gospel faith that was being preached by Peter and others in Acts chapters 2-8 until Saul's conversion in chapter 9. The context does not allow for the idea that Saul was destroying a different faith than what was being preached in Acts chapters 2-8, he was preaching the exact same "the faith" he once destroyed.

 

[BABerean2]

A Baptist pastor on Dispensationalism...

.

 

[classicalhero]

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf

Looks the author of that link has never heard Chiliasm, which is from the Greek word for "thousand years" instead of the Latin "millennium". It was certainl a very common view in the early church until about the 3rd century.

But many things being argued here by those who are against Dispensationalism are putting up straw men.

 

[BABerean2]

Looks the author of that link has never heard Chiliasm, which is from the Greek word for "thousand years" instead of the Latin "millennium". It was certainl a very common view in the early church until about the 3rd century.

But many things being argued here by those who are against Dispensationalism are putting up straw men.

It is my understanding that Pastor Tim Warner, who is the author of the link, is a "chiliast".
He believes in the 1,000 year Millennial reign. However, he has rejected the pretrib rapture of Dispensational Theology.

The 2 Peoples of God/ 2 Kingdoms/ 2 or more Gospels/ Scripture "Rightly Divided" into 2 Parts/ 2 ways of Salvation(Grace and later Law)/ 2 Second Comings of Christ doctrine is not found in God's Word.

.

 

[classicalhero]

Just because there are 2 peoples of God, salvation has always been the same. I do like how opponents of dispensationalism build up straw men to destroy when they aren't debating the tenets they supposedly oppose. When the Jews see the Messiah come they will repent of their sins, just like everyone else before them who trusted in Christ.

 

[BABerean2]

Just because there are 2 peoples of God, salvation has always been the same. I do like how opponents of dispensationalism build up straw men to destroy when they aren't debating the tenets they supposedly oppose. When the Jews see the Messiah come they will repent of their sins, just like everyone else before them who trusted in Christ.

In Romans chapter 11 the Israelites who bowed the knee to Baal were not the people of God. Only the 7,000 of the faithful remnant were the people of God.


Rom_9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:


In Romans 11 those Israelites who did not accept Christ were the branches broken off of the Olive tree of faithful Israel.
They can be grafted back into the Olive Tree through faith in Christ.

Part of the Israelites were blinded. The Faithful elect remnant of Israelites accepted Christ.

The word "so" in Romans 11:26 is an adverb of manner.
You are changing it to the word "then", which is an adverb of time.



Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


G3779


οὕτω

houtō

hoo'-to

Or, before a vowel, οὕτως houtōs hoo'-toce.

From G3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows): - after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like (-wise), no more, on this fashion (-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.









Joh_10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.



Rom_2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.



Eph_2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

There is no difference today between a naked native living in the Amazon rain forest and an atheist descendent of Jacob living in the modern nation of Israel.

They both need Jesus in the same way.

There is no such thing today as "bloodline salvation".

If you think there is, please explain how much of this Jewish DNA is required...


.

 

[ron4shua]

http://biblehub.com/isr/2_peter/3.htm
1This is now, beloved ones, the second letter I write to you, in which I stir up your sincere mind, to remember

2the words previously spoken by the set-apart prophets, and of the command of the Master and Saviour, spoken by your emissaries,

3knowing this first: that mockers shall come in the last days with mocking, walking according to their own lusts,

4and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all continues as from the beginning of creation.”

5For they choose to have this hidden from them: that the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by the Word of Elohim,a

6through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.

7And the present heavens and the earth are treasured up by the same Word, being kept for fire, to a day of judgment and destruction of wicked men.

8But, beloved ones, let not this one matter be hidden from you: that with יהוה one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9יהוה is not slow in regard to the promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward us, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.a

10But the day of יהוה shall come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with intense heat, and the earth and the works that are in it shall be burned up.

11Seeing all these are to be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be in set-apart behaviour and reverence,

12looking for and hastening the coming of the day of Elohim, through which the heavens shall be destroyed, being set on fire, and the elements melt with intense heat!

13But according to His promise we wait for a renewed heavens and a renewed earth in which righteousness dwells.

14So then, beloved ones, looking forward to this, do your utmost to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,

15and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,


16as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand,a which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures.

17You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless,

18but grow in the favour and knowledge of our Master and Saviour יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.

 

[classicalhero]

In Romans chapter 11 the Israelites who bowed the knee to Baal were not the people of God. Only the 7,000 of the faithful remnant were the people of God.


Rom_9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:


In Romans 11 those Israelites who did not accept Christ were the branches broken off of the Olive tree of faithful Israel.
They can be grafted back into the Olive Tree through faith in Christ.

Part of the Israelites were blinded. The Faithful elect remnant of Israelites accepted Christ.

The word "so" in Romans 11:26 is an adverb of manner.
You are changing it to the word "then", which is an adverb of time.



Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


G3779


οὕτω

houtō

hoo'-to

Or, before a vowel, οὕτως houtōs hoo'-toce.

From G3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows): - after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like (-wise), no more, on this fashion (-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.









Joh_10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.



Rom_2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.



Eph_2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

There is no difference today between a naked native living in the Amazon rain forest and an atheist descendent of Jacob living in the modern nation of Israel.

They both need Jesus in the same way.

There is no such thing today as "bloodline salvation".

If you think there is, please explain how much of this Jewish DNA is required...


.

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
Before we are saved we either belonged to the Gentile group or the Jewish group, but once we trusted Christ as our personal saviour we are part of his church, but those outside are in one of those two groups. God chose Israel because of Abraham and he still has a goal for them, but right now he is working through his church and waiting for a time when he removes it from earth so he can focus again on Israel and the Jews so they will come to repent of their sins.

 

[BABerean2]

now he is working through his church and waiting for a time when he removes it from earth so he can focus again on Israel and the Jews so they will come to repent of their sins. googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1431698694306-1'); });

There is no salvation outside of the Church. It is now the only covenant in effect.

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
The Mount Sinai Covenant was one of bondage.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
The Old Covenant was bondage according to Paul. The real Mount Sinai is in Arabia. ( Jabel al Lawz) (Mount of the Almond).

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Our Jerusalem is the not the one here on earth, it is above.

Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
We are the children of the John 3:16/Gal. 3:16 promise.

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Paul was continually battling the Judaizers who were attempting to put the Gentile Christians under the Law.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Paul is saying give up the Old Covenant.

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
We are the children of the New Covenant.
............................................................

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Jesus is now the mediator of the New Covenant.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
This is also found at the end of Romans chapter 11, and is in effect now. The Jews are not waiting on it's future fulfillment.

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
The Mosaic Covenant was conditional. It depended on Israel keeping the Law, which they never did.
God no longer regards them under the Old Covenant.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
This is found at the end of Romans chapter 11 and is in effect now. It is not waiting on the future.

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
The Old Covenant is finished.



The Church is the only Plan.

 

[MWood]

There is no salvation outside of the Church. It is now the only covenant in effect.

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
The Mount Sinai Covenant was one of bondage.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
The Old Covenant was bondage according to Paul. The real Mount Sinai is in Arabia. ( Jabel al Lawz) (Mount of the Almond).

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Our Jerusalem is the not the one here on earth, it is above.

Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
We are the children of the John 3:16/Gal. 3:16 promise.

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Paul was continually battling the Judaizers who were attempting to put the Gentile Christians under the Law.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Paul is saying give up the Old Covenant.

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
We are the children of the New Covenant.
............................................................

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Jesus is now the mediator of the New Covenant.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
This is also found at the end of Romans chapter 11, and is in effect now. The Jews are not waiting on it's future fulfillment.

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
The Mosaic Covenant was conditional. It depended on Israel keeping the Law, which they never did.
God no longer regards them under the Old Covenant.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
This is found at the end of Romans chapter 11 and is in effect now. It is not waiting on the future.

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
The Old Covenant is finished.



The Church is the only Plan.

If they are now under the New Covenant, why do we yet have to continue to remind every man our neighbor, and every man our brother to know the Lord?
The New Covenant that we are under now is the Blood in the cup.

 

[Hank77]

If they are now under the New Covenant, why do we yet have to continue to remind every man our neighbor, and every man our brother to know the Lord?
The New Covenant that we are under now is the Blood in the cup.

That's a good question. What covenant are gentile unbelievers under? Or are they in covenant with God at all?

 

[BABerean2]

If they are now under the New Covenant, why do we yet have to continue to remind every man our neighbor, and every man our brother to know the Lord?
The New Covenant that we are under now is the Blood in the cup.

The question is who is "they".

We have to remember that when the Church of Jesus Christ started, it was made up almost solely of Jews.
The Gospel was preached almost exclusively to the Jews, up until the time Stephen was stoned.
Before they killed him, he went through the history of Israel.
They killed him, because they did not want to hear the truth.

I have had Jewish Christians in my home for Bible study.
They are under the New Covenant, just like we Gentile Christians are.
There is no difference.

The descendants of Jacob who have rejected Christ are not under any covenant, based on the text found in the Book of Hebrews.
.

 

[MWood]

That's a good question. What covenant are gentile unbelievers under? Or are they in covenant with God at all?

The only covenant available to anyone at this time is the covenant of the Blood.

 

[MWood]

The question is who is "they".

We have to remember that when the Church of Jesus Christ started, it was made up almost solely of Jews.
The Gospel was preached almost exclusively to the Jews, up until the time Stephen was stoned.
Before they killed him, he went through the history of Israel.
They killed him, because they did not want to hear the truth.

I have had Jewish Christians in my home for Bible study.
They are under the New Covenant, just like we Gentile Christians are.
There is no difference.

The descendants of Jacob who have rejected Christ are not under any covenant, based on the text found in the Book of Hebrews.
.

This "They" I am speaking of, are the Israelites.
You are right, We and They are under the new covenant of the Blood of Jesus. Not the covenant of Jer.31.

 

[BABerean2]

This "They" I am speaking of, are the Israelites.
You are right, We and They are under the new covenant of the Blood of Jesus. Not the covenant of Jer.31.

There was a time when I wanted to believe that the Jews of the modern world were still somehow under the Old Covenant.

I had just one problem. The New Testament says otherwise.
Therefore, I had to try to align my understanding with what is plainly written in God's Word.

In other words... I was wrong and had to correct what I believed.

 

[Hank77]

You are right, We and They are under the new covenant of the Blood of Jesus. Not the covenant of Jer.31

On which scriptures do you base your belief that Jeremiah 31, is not the new covenant, by grace through faith in Christ? Which you call the new covenant of the Blood.

 

[MWood]

There was a time when I wanted to believe that the Jews of the modern world were still somehow under the Old Covenant.

I had just one problem. The New Testament says otherwise.
Therefore, I had to try to align my understanding with what is plainly written in God's Word.

In other words... I was wrong and had to correct what I believed.

Wonderful! What do you now believe?