A verse that single-handedly destroys the dispensational delusion!

[BABerean2]

baberean2,

1. You really don't comprehend too well.

2. KEEPING THE COMMANDMENTS didn't save a person under the old covenant and even the BLOOD OF BULLS AND GOATS couldn't save a person.

3. We are not saved or justified by law keeping.

4. All I said is that there were people in the old covenant that at one time or another kept the whole law perfectly. You said if that was true then men could save themselves. You are doing nothing but contradicting yourself.

5. Technically, salvation was not complete for the old covenant believer until Christ died and his blood washed away their sin AT THE CROSS and this is why they and believers of the new covenant were MADE PERFECT TOGETHER.

6. Either you really lack comprehension of what you are saying or you just want to keep accusing me of something that is not true.

7. READ THIS AND UNDERSTAND. IF A PERSON KEPT THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE OLD COVENANT AND IT DIDN'T SAVE THEM ANYWAY THEN YOU HAVE NO BASIS OF ACCUSING ME BY YOUR UNBELIEVABLE, ILLOGICAL REASONING THAT KEEPING THE COMMANDMENTS MEANS THAT ALL MEN WOULD BE JUSTIFIED. YOUR POST IS A WRITING CONTRADICTION.
Are you afraid to answer my simple question? Do you believe you can't help but sin each day? Quit evading the question and answer it. Jerry Kelso

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


Do I commit these sins since I have been saved by the Grace of the Cross?

Absolutely not?

The power of the Spirit inside of me empowers me to avoid them.

It is not what I can do. It is what he can do.

The credit for not sinning does not go to me.

It goes to Him.

.

 

[jerry kelso]

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


Do I commit these sins since I have been saved by the Grace of the Cross?

Absolutely not?

The power of the Spirit inside of me empowers me to avoid them.

It is not what I can do. It is what he can do.

The credit for not sinning does not go to me.

It goes to Him.

.

baberean2,

1. The argument was never about the credit going to us for not sinning. I said Paul only gloried in the cross.

2. Absolutely not? Does this mean you are not sure whether you commit these sins are not?

3. It is not good if you have been full of hatred or strife but if you have repented that is forgiven and forgotten. David was forgiven of adultery and murder both.

4. If you do this because of a stronghold your obedience must be fulfilled and be delivered. Paul knew the Corinthians were being assaulted by false prophets and the false prophets disgraced him because of his bodily presence of being small and not having great spiritual authority in person because his letters were so powerful. They were wrong.

5. If you practice these and have no conscience it is a good sign that you are deceived and are on your way to apostasy if you don't repent.

6. Simon believed and was baptized but thought he could buy the power of the Holy Spirit and Peter said, thy money perish with you, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive that thou are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity. Then answered, Simon, and said Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

7. God knows when the point of no return is for a person or whether or not that person was ever saved at all such as those in 1 John who went out from John and them but they were not of them; for if they had been of them they would not doubt had continued with them, but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

8. If you are practicing these with a motive of subduing the plan of God and are playing the part of cloaking hypocrisy such as the Scribes and Pharisees of Jesus day we are reprobates. Matthew 6:16-18; Matthew 12:24-32; Matthew 23.

9. Paul said if he didn't keep his body under subjection he could be hypocritical and a castaway which is backslidden and could go into being a reprobate which is apostasy and a reprobate which is being rejected against God. It is in the context of running the race of life and the goal being heaven and that the race is not won unless completed with God.
1 Corinthians 9:27.

10. Again, living free from sin going to the glory of God was never the question.
If the Spirit empowers you to avoid them then you are not sinning and are sinless whether one second, one minute, one hour or even one day or more.

11. So you do believe that a christian can live sinless through the glory of God and his power. What took you so long? Jerry Kelso

 

[BABerean2]

So you do believe that a christian can live sinless through the glory of God and his power. What took you so long?

I did not say any such thing.

There are small things I may do on a daily basis that are not perfect in God's eyes.

I will always be a rotten sinner, saved by Grace.

1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


I am not willing to deceive myself.
.

 

[mercyfollowsme]

Not even close to an reasoned debate

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Acts 17:30


Lets not forget the following passages:

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 10:5-7

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Luke 24:47

For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Acts 3:22-26

And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Acts 13:32-33,46


I say, please repent and escape from the dispensational delusion. God fulfilled His promise to Israel. Christ served Israel first, and the Gospel was first preached to them.

 

[LastSeven]

You have not convinced me to do so.

God has still not fulfilled all His promises to the nation of Israel. Israel still has a glorious future to look forward to.

I understand why you can't let go of it. It's because you still think "Israel" refers to that nation of anti-Christs in the middle east. That's the reason you're stuck in dispensationalism. Until you understand what "Israel" is, you'll never understand the gospel nor eschatology, so maybe start there.

 

[random person]

Not even close to an reasoned debate

God has commanded all men to repent and believe in the Savior. All men. There is the short and narrow path followed by the sheep and led by the Shepherd, then there is the path of the robbers that believe they can enter the gate sans the Shepherd.

 

[random person]

Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be CUT OFF from his people; he has BROKEN my covenant.”

Genesis 17:14

“And when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God has driven you, 2 and return to the Lord your God, you and your children, and obey his voice in all that I command you today, with all your heart and with all your soul, 3 THEN the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have mercy on you, and he will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. If your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of heaven, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there he will take you.

“See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. 16 If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you today, by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, THEN you shall live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 17 But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today, THAT you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, THAT I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, THAT you and your offspring may live, 20 loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, THAT you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”

Deuteronomy 30:1-4,15-20

I will PURGE OUT the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against me. I will bring them out of the land where they sojourn,but they shall NOT enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord.

Ezekiel 20:38

The land promises were always conditional. Conditional upon the spiritual state of Biblical Israel. Never once in the Bible states that Israel would be gathered from the nations in a secular/apostate state of disbelief.

Cite one passage of Scripture that God promises to do this? Just one? It does not exist, the only thing BW has be capable of presenting is prophecies concerning judgment against apostate Israel. But not once has he or any other Dispensationalist believer has been able to scripturally support their view that Israel will be gathered from the nations in a secular/apostate state of disbelief.

God never promised to gather apostates back into the land. NEVER!

 

[BABerean2]

I understand why you can't let go of it. It's because you still think "Israel" refers to that nation of anti-Christs in the middle east. That's the reason you're stuck in dispensationalism. Until you understand what "Israel" is, you'll never understand the gospel nor eschatology, so maybe start there.

This book by Pastor Matt Furse dares to speak the truth.

Who Is Israel?


https://www.amazon.com/Who-Israel-M...47&sr=8-1&keywords=Who+Is+Israel+++Matt+Furse


.

 

[random person]

Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be CUT OFF from his people; he has BROKEN my covenant.”

Genesis 17:14

“And when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God has driven you, 2 and return to the Lord your God, you and your children, and obey his voice in all that I command you today, with all your heart and with all your soul, 3 THEN the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have mercy on you, and he will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. If your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of heaven, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there he will take you.

“See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. 16 If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you today, by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, THEN you shall live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 17 But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today, THAT you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, THAT I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, THAT you and your offspring may live, 20 loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, THAT you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”

Deuteronomy 30:1-4,15-20

I will PURGE OUT the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against me. I will bring them out of the land where they sojourn,but they shall NOT enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord.

Ezekiel 20:38

The land promises were always conditional. Conditional upon the spiritual state of Biblical Israel. Never once in the Bible states that Israel would be gathered from the nations in a secular/apostate state of disbelief.

Cite one passage of Scripture that God promises to do this? Just one? It does not exist, the only thing BW has be capable of presenting is prophecies concerning judgment against apostate Israel. But not once has he or any other Dispensationalist believer has been able to scripturally support their view that Israel will be gathered from the nations in a secular/apostate state of disbelief.

God never promised to gather apostates back into the land. NEVER!

As soon as all the kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan to the west, and all the kings of the Canaanites who were by the sea, heard that the Lord had dried up the waters of the Jordan for the people of Israel until they had crossed over, their hearts melted and there was no longer any spirit in them because of the people of Israel.

2 At that time the Lord said to Joshua, “Make flint knives and circumcise the sons of Israel a second time.” 3 So Joshua made flint knives and circumcised the sons of Israel at Gibeath-haaraloth.4 And this is the reason why Joshua circumcised them: all the males of the people who came out of Egypt, all the men of war, had died in the wilderness on the way after they had come out of Egypt. 5 Though all the people who came out had been circumcised, yet all the people who were born on the way in the wilderness after they had come out of Egypt had not been circumcised. 6 For the people of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, until all the nation, the men of war who came out of Egypt, perished, because they did not obey the voice of the Lord; the Lordswore to them that he would not let them see the land that the Lord had sworn to their fathers to give to us, a land flowing with milk and honey. 7 So it was their children, whom he raised up in their place, that Joshua circumcised. For they were uncircumcised, because they had not been circumcised on the way.

8 When the circumcising of the whole nation was finished, they remained in their places in the camp until they were healed. 9 And the Lord said to Joshua, “Today I have rolled away the reproach of Egypt from you.” And so the name of that place is called Gilgal to this day.

In the above passage from Joshua chapter 5, why wouldn't the Lord allow Israel to cross the Jordan and take possession of the land? Why? This is a easy sunday school lesson.

Weren't they CUT OFF in their current state? Wasn't the covenant broken in their current state?

 

[ac28]

This book by Pastor Matt Furse dares to speak the truth.

Who Is Israel?


https://www.amazon.com/Who-Israel-M...47&sr=8-1&keywords=Who+Is+Israel+++Matt+Furse


.

Why do you keep posting and cutting and pasting all this drivel from preachers who obviously have no idea what they are talking about. I would bet that no one reads that stuff or watches the videos. I must admit that I watched a couple at first, but I quickly discovered that they were laughable.

A question. Have you ever converted anyone on this dispensational section to your very unBiblical doctrine? I would wager that the answer is no. Even though I vehemently disagree with the Acts 2 and mid-Acts groups, I have always known that dispensationalists of all types are a notch above any other group when it comes to Bible knowledge. You would be better off preaching to babes in Christ.

Probably the one statement that showed how ridiculous and weak your doctrine is was when you implied that, because I didn't believe that the new covenant was for me, as a Gentile, I wasn't saved. Turning the tables on this, I would say that anyone who requires both a belief in Jesus Christ AND ANYTHING ELSE (works, water baptism, embracing catholicism, necessary belief in the New Covenant, etc., etc.) is saying that the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus is not adequate payment for our salvation and that person is therefore NOT SAVED.

Both Jeremiah and Hebrews are emphatic about the New Covenant being for Israel. In Romans 9:4, we learn that the Gentiles had no part in the covenants.
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Can't get much plainer than that. Add Jeremiah 31:31, Hebrews 8:8, and Hebrews 8:10 to that and you have absolute proof that the New Covenant (NC) is for Israel and only Israel. Three absolute smoking gun verses like this outweigh some little mealy-mouth iffy verse you think you found in Corinthians. Since Israel, as a nation, doesn't exist today in God's eyes, no one during the last 1956 years has been under the NC. In the future, when Israel is back on the scene and when they believe in Jesus Chrict, they will be under the NC.

Israel was never able to keep the law through the flesh. In Acts 3:19, we see that unbelieving Israel's sins were never blotted out. They won't be until Israel believes in Jesus Christ and sees that His blood was shed on the cross for their sins. When they see that, the HS will enter them and put the law in their inward parts, Jeremiah 31:33, and this is what will enable them to keep the law. This is what the New Covenant is all about. It's all about the law. The Gentiles were never under the law and never will be. Also read Ezekiel 36:24-28.

Where the Bible is silent, you should also be silent.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Even though I vehemently disagree with the Acts 2 and mid-Acts groups, I have always known that dispensationalists of all types are a notch above any other group when it comes to Bible knowledge.

"A notch above", lol.

Both Jeremiah and Hebrews are emphatic about the New Covenant being for Israel. In Romans 9:4, we learn that the Gentiles had no part in the covenants.
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Can't get much plainer than that. Add Jeremiah 31:31, Hebrews 8:8, and Hebrews 8:10 to that and you have absolute proof that the New Covenant (NC) is for Israel and only Israel.

Now this statement demonstrates how dispensationalists are NOT a "notch above" in Biblical knowledge. God's new covenant with Israel included that they would receive the Gentiles as an inheritance in accordance with the Abrahamic covenant.

Romans 4:13: It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world (Gentiles), but through the righteousness that comes by faith. Romans 4:13

Christ became a servant to the circumcision (the Jews) for the express purpose of saving Gentiles. I repeat: The promise to the Jewish fathers was that Gentiles would be saved

Romans 15:8-13: Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers, 9 and that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy, as it is written:

“For this reason I will confess to You among the Gentiles,
And sing to Your name.”


10 And again he says:

“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people!

11 And again:

“Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles!
Laud Him, all you peoples!

12 And again, Isaiah says:

“There shall be a root of Jesse;
And He who shall rise to reign over the Gentiles,
In Him the Gentiles shall hope.

 

[ac28]

"A notch above", lol.

Now this statement demonstrates how dispensationalists are NOT a "notch above" in Biblical knowledge. God's new covenant with Israel included that they would receive the Gentiles as an inheritance in accordance with the Abrahamic covenant.

Romans 4:13: It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world (Gentiles), but through the righteousness that comes by faith. Romans 4:13

Christ became a servant to the circumcision (the Jews) for the express purpose of saving Gentiles. I repeat: The promise to the Jewish fathers was that Gentiles would be saved

Romans 15:8-13: Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers, 9 and that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy, as it is written:

“For this reason I will confess to You among the Gentiles,
And sing to Your name.”


10 And again he says:

“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people!

11 And again:

“Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles!
Laud Him, all you peoples!

12 And again, Isaiah says:

“There shall be a root of Jesse;
And He who shall rise to reign over the Gentiles,
In Him the Gentiles shall hope.

From Gen 12 to Acts 28:28, only Israel was in view. Every Gentile during this entire 2000 year period that believed was blessed through Israel and only through Israel. The were always tied to Israel's coat tails. At the very end of Acts, this drastically changed when Israel, as a nation, was taken out of the way due to their unbelief.

Suddenly, no more Israel in God's eyes. But God had a brand new plan for the Gentiles. Instead of the Gentiles having a hope on the earth or in the New Jerusalem which will eventually be attached to the earth, both being in Israel's promised kingdom through Abraham, their new hope was to be Far Above the created Heavens, in the uncreated Heavens where God dwells. No one during the Acts period ever had a calling of going to heaven. The heaven calling only occurs in Paul's last 7 epistles. There are many verses in Eph and the other prison epistles that show this very plainly, with no distortion of any scripture.

BTW, I agree with every one of your quotes. You've just used them for the wrong purpose. Nothing I said was understood by you at all and, therefore, nothing I said was disproved by your quotes.

 

[BABerean2]

Probably the one statement that showed how ridiculous and weak your doctrine is was when you implied that, because I didn't believe that the new covenant was for me, as a Gentile, I wasn't saved.

I have never said any such thing about you not being in Christ.

I have friends who are Dispensationalists and are some of the finest Christians I have ever met.

You seem to have gotten your feelings hurt when you claimed no Gentiles were a part of the New Covenant and then you were proven wrong by the scripture below.


2Co 3:6 who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.



You may have been a Gentile at one time.
However, if you have placed your faith in Christ, you are an ex-Gentile.

In Romans 11:1 Paul says that he is an Israelite.
We have been grafted into the Israelite Olive Tree.
Our nourishment comes from the root, which is Christ.

He is Israel.



Ruth was a Moabite who was grafted into Israel through faith.
She was in the lineage that produced King David.

We are grafted in through faith, just as she was.


.

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Acts 17:30
Lets not forget the following passages:

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

I say, please repent and escape from the dispensational delusion.
God fulfilled His promise to Israel. Christ served Israel first, and the Gospel was first preached to them.

Come forth out of them My People!..

Everything you ever wanted to know about Dispensationalism but were afraid to ask....and for good reason!!


http://graceonlinelibrary.org/category/eschatology/dispensationalism/
Dispensationalism

http://graceonlinelibrary.org/escha...the-rise-of-dispensationalism-by-mark-sarver/

Introduction

It is scarcely possible that those who labor in the gospel will be able to escape the necessity of ministering to those who have been influenced by modern dispensationalism. We live in an era flooded with dispensational preaching, books, schools, and even study Bibles.
The teaching of dispensationalism has successfully crossed the boundaries of most major Protestant denominations. Turn on the radio and you will hear a steady diet of this teaching being broadcast from most evangelical stations.


Dispensationalism has a pervasive influence not only extensively, but also intensively. It is usually the case that those who embrace its teachings as a system are affected in almost every area of their theological thinking.
So pervasive is its effect on those who have become its pupils, that even those who have come to see the error of its basic presuppositions testify that dispensational cobwebs have remained in their thinking for a long time after the initial sweeping took place. My own experience bears witness to the truth of what I say.


Because dispensationalism has had such a widespread effect, the sheer bulk of the material makes it very difficult to adequately treat the subject in a few short lectures. We cannot hope to thoroughly examine all of its tenets. Our basic desire is to gain a working acquaintance with its essential features and of the difference between these basic presuppositions and the Word of God.
In order to do this, we will begin with a survey of the historical genesis and development of dispensationalism (as presented in this paper)....................................

.......................................................

.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Suddenly, no more Israel in God's eyes. But God had a brand new plan for the Gentiles.

It was NOT a "brand new" plan. Israel was promised all along that the Gentiles would become a part of them. The promises were made to the Fathers.

Romans 15:8-13: Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers, 9 and that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy, as it is written:

“For this reason I will confess to You among the Gentiles,
And sing to Your name.....”

How can it be a "brand new" plan for the Gentiles when the promises regarding their inclusion was made to the fathers?

 

[ac28]

It was NOT a "brand new" plan. Israel was promised all along that the Gentiles would become a part of them. The promises were made to the Fathers.

Romans 15:8-13: Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers, 9 and that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy, as it is written:

“For this reason I will confess to You among the Gentiles,
And sing to Your name.....”

How can it be a "brand new" plan for the Gentiles when the promises regarding their inclusion was made to the fathers?

Read Ephesians. It's a brand new calling. No where else in scripture can you find anyone having a hope "Far above all Heavens." None of the quotes you make from Romans or any of Paul's other Acts books can possibly apply to this new calling. What you quoted from Romans was true for the Acts period only. Nothing that happened during Acts applies today.

 

[BABerean2]

Read Ephesians. It's a brand new calling. No where else in scripture can you find anyone having a hope "Far above all Heavens." None of the quotes you make from Romans or any of Paul's other Acts books can possibly apply to this new calling. What you quoted from Romans was true for the Acts period only. Nothing that happened during Acts applies today.

Paul says otherwise.
It was revealed to Hosea.

Rom 9:24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As indeed he says in Hosea, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'"
Rom 9:26 "And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'"
Rom 9:27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,


.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Read Ephesians. It's a brand new calling.

I noticed that you changed the wording from "brand new plan" to "brand new calling." It was NOT a brand new plan. Your change up in the wording reveals your confusion. Paul said that the Christ came to the Circumcision (the Jews) to confirm the promises that were made "to the fathers" that "the Gentiles should glorify God."

Nothing that happened during Acts applies today.

Really? Peter said that the Holy Spirit would be given for a "great while to come."

Acts 2:39, For the promise is for you and for your children and for all for a great while to come [eis makran], everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

Peter used the expression "eis makran" which means "for a great while to come." This expression is used nowhere else in the new testament. But it appears a few times in the Greek old Testament.

2 Samuel 7:19, And yet this was a small thing in Your sight, O Lord God; and You have also spoken of Your servant’s house for a great while to come [eis makran].

 

[ac28]

Paul says otherwise.
It was revealed to Hosea.

Rom 9:24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As indeed he says in Hosea, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'"
Rom 9:26 "And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'"
Rom 9:27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,


.

Paul says otherwise in Romans, but nothing in Romans applies dispensationally to any truth found in Eph. Hosea involved Israel and since today's truth found only in Eph, etc. has nothing to do with Israel. Hosea has no dispensational application for any of us. Any quote you make out of Romans is totally non-applicable, dispensationally, today. The calling in Eph, of Far above all Heavens, is brand new and is a totally different dispensation than that during Acts. During the entirety of Acts, the hope for both Jews and Gentiles was the kingdom promised to Israel. All saved Gentiles during Acts were attached to Israel. No saved Gentiles in Ephesians are attached to Israel. In Ephesians, we learn that saved Gentiles are equal with Israel, in that today's Jews are individually required to believe in Jesus Christ, just like the Gentiles. There are no nationalities today, in God's eyes - just individuals. During Acts, EVERYTHING revolved around the NATION of Israel.

Try reading Ephesians without your New Covenant spectacles.

 

[ac28]

I noticed that you changed the wording from "brand new plan" to "brand new calling." It was NOT a brand new plan. Your change up in the wording reveals your confusion. Paul said that the Christ came to the Circumcision (the Jews) to confirm the promises that were made "to the fathers" that "the Gentiles should glorify God."

Really? Peter said that the Holy Spirit would be given for a "great while to come."

Acts 2:39, For the promise is for you and for your children and for all for a great while to come [eis makran], everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

Peter used the expression "eis makran" which means "for a great while to come." This expression is used nowhere else in the new testament. But it appears a few times in the Greek old Testament.

2 Samuel 7:19, And yet this was a small thing in Your sight, O Lord God; and You have also spoken of Your servant’s house for a great while to come [eis makran].

Here again, nothing you quote from the OT or from Acts or any book written during Acts has anything to do with you or I, dispensationally. If you want to debate, show me where I'm wrong by quoting from Eph, Phil, Col, Tim, Titus, or Phile, the only books that are truth for today, dispensationally. Only then will I pay any attention to what you quoted. Have you ever read those books?

Anyone who believes that their hope and calling is found in the Acts books are very, very. very confused. Unfortunately, this is the state of most of Christendom. Satan has done an excellent job of keeping the Saints in Acts and preventing them from seeing the far, far, far better truth found only in Eph, Col, etc.

You are right about my my using the word "plan." I shouldn't have. This brand new calling found ONLY in Paul's last 7 books was always part of God's eternal plan. It is not a new plan but it definitely is a new calling not found in any scripture before Ac28:28. God is filling up His universe with believers. In Acts, he WAS, in the past, adding believers to the created part of His universe. In Eph, etc., He IS, today, filling the un-created part of His universe with believers. Anyone not seeing this is blinded by Satan.