a thought to ponder

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heatherwayno

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To tell students that some do not believe in evolution and not present other beleifs is not telling kids the whole story. They have to know that others beleif different things in order to fit into society and respect others. Intolerance comes from ignorance- we need to learn about others and their beliefs. There are entire subjects devoted to that ya know- and whenever possible teachers do not teach concepts in isolation- what is learned in one subject is whenever possible realted top another. Teaching about hte scientific origins of the Earth is a perfect opportunity to teach about what other cultures believe- which ties into Social Studies. Like it or not, the country was founded on religious beliefs and to totally take that out of the curriculum denies students of their heritage.
 
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dad

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If it goes aganst what the bible teaches, that God created the animals and man, that is against the bible. If you simply mean that things have evolved in the past, well, no that does not affect the bible, as I can see.


Where evolution is taken to mean that there was no creation, and the evolving happenned instead, in effect creating the creatures and us, that is not important, but clap.

It has not even been shown as a sick maybe when we go beyond the original creations as a starting point for evolution!

They should have a nobel prize for it!

The stuff that starts at the pond does. Absolutely, the bible has a different story.

lemon_drop said:
I agree with all that you said in principle. All I am saying is that evolution or science in general should not and does not equal atheism (in and of itself that is).

Science in general does not disagree with what you just agreed with. The common understanding (I think incorrect) of the word evolution has to do with all things coming from a primordal pond. Sister evo ideas involve the cosmos, and geology, and other things, are are similarily God lacking.

If all you mean by evolution is the act of having been able to evolve, no, this is not atheism, as I see it.
All this aside, I realize there are religions and denominations that consider the bible basically fables, and so feel they can toss it out at leisure. For them sailing out of a speck till it cooled enough for earth's pond is no problem. The fact that the bible says the earth was here before the stars, etc is of no concern to them.
 
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steen

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heatherwayno said:
Yes Steen- child abuse is more serious than teaching them someones opinion- I have seen alot of children who are abused in ways more horrible than you could imagine
Well, I actually work in that field, to some extend. I am not saying that they are equivalent. I am not saying that raping and beating your kid daily is the equivalent of teaching them ID, f.ex. But it harms the kids, it hurts their choices for future careers.

and sometimes the only thing that gives them any hope or joy is knowing that there is a God who loves them.
Certainly. I know all about how inept CPS sometimes seem to be.

What is the harm in teaching them this?
Oh, I agree completely. I am a Christian, remeber?

But I don't see this being done by teaching them creationism. The only thing that comes out of that is harming them. Just as if we teach them that the 4 elements are air, water, fire and earth, or teach them that the Earth is falt. That's the level I see creationism at.
 
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Pete Harcoff

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heatherwayno said:
Why are people so threatened by letting the students hear another side to this?

The problem is, scientifically speaking, there is no other side. What creationists have tried to do in the past is insert creationism (or more recently ID) into science cirriculums along side evolution. But as you've said yourself, creationism is about faith, not science.

In all cases so far, creationism and ID have been tossed because of violations of the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

As for me, I have no problem with creationism being taught in a comparative religious studies class. I kinda wish we'd had something like that in our school.
 
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heatherwayno

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Why are you so opposed to presenting concept alongside evolution? I seriously doubt that no matter what a teacher teaches- that if the parents have different beliefs the students will not be affected by the lesson. There should be tolerance especially in higher institutuions of learning. Educated people should embrace other ideas and even though they are not based on science- they need to be open minded.
 
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heatherwayno

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Steen- sorry I didn't realize you were a christian.
You say that teaching creationsim alongside evoulution is like teaching htem that hte earth is flat. We teach them that people used to think the earth is flat- why can't we teach that people think earth was created in other ways? I am not suggested passing out bibles as textbooks but just preseting the other side in order to educate children to other cultures and beliefs!
 
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steen

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heatherwayno said:
You have proof that a global flood did not happen- you were there? How can you say without the shadow of a doubt that it did not happen?
The confluence of evidence is conclusive, yes. There are numerous treads in this forum dealing with that evidence. Go check in on the "Varves" tread, f.ex.
 
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steen

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heatherwayno said:
I do not believe that teaching cretaionism hurts their choices for future careers- there are many succesful christians
But Christianity and Creationist are not the same. There are not a lot of creationist Physicians out there, f.ex. (A few, but not many).
 
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Vainglorious

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heatherwayno said:
Why are you so opposed to presenting concept alongside evolution? I seriously doubt that no matter what a teacher teaches- that if the parents have different beliefs the students will not be affected by the lesson. There should be tolerance especially in higher institutuions of learning. Educated people should embrace other ideas and even though they are not based on science- they need to be open minded.

Nobody in this forum (as far as I see) is opposed to presenting alternative ideas in the correct context. From your posts it appears your school is including Creationism in a science class. This is the wrong place for it. You yourself confirmed Creationism is a position of faith and that evolution theory is a concept of science. It is wrong to associate a position of faith as being appropriate to include in a science class because it gives the students the mistaken impression that both evolution theory and Creationism are equivalent scientific positions.

Not all ideas are equal.
 
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heatherwayno

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You say that teaching creationsim alongside evoulution is like teaching htem that hte earth is flat. We teach them that people used to think the earth is flat- why can't we teach that people think earth was created in other ways? Steen- I would like to hear your answer ot this
 
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TheBear

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heatherwayno said:
To tell students that some do not believe in evolution and not present other beleifs is not telling kids the whole story. They have to know that others beleif different things in order to fit into society and respect others. Intolerance comes from ignorance- we need to learn about others and their beliefs. There are entire subjects devoted to that ya know- and whenever possible teachers do not teach concepts in isolation- what is learned in one subject is whenever possible realted top another. Teaching about hte scientific origins of the Earth is a perfect opportunity to teach about what other cultures believe- which ties into Social Studies. Like it or not, the country was founded on religious beliefs and to totally take that out of the curriculum denies students of their heritage.
In the philosophy, cultural anthropology, or comparative religions classrooms, I have absolutely no problem with this. But it has no place in the science classroom. Keep science in the science classrooms. Don't water down and confuse science with religion, philosophy or theistic beliefs.
 
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heatherwayno

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Nobody in this forum (as far as I see) is opposed to presenting alternative ideas in the correct context. From your posts it appears your school is including Creationism in a science class. This is the wrong place for it. You yourself confirmed Creationism is a position of faith and that evolution theory is a concept of science. It is wrong to associate a position of faith as being appropriate to include in a science class because it gives the students the mistaken impression that both evolution theory and Creationism are equivalent scientific positions.

Your right- it is not science. It can be intergrated into other subjects and teachers always try to do this. When teaching a unit on evolution- this would be a good time to teach about greek mythology in ss or english or read stories about how native americans think the world was created. We never say that it is science. We do say though that some people do not believe it.
 
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JohnR7

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heatherwayno said:
From your posts it appears your school is including Creationism in a science class. This is the wrong place for it.
What is wrong with presenting scientific evidence for creationism in the science class? Science is science and it does not become disqualified if it proves creationism rather then evolution. Of course if you want to wear rose colored glasses that filters out any evidence for creationism, then I guess that is up to you.
 
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TheBear

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heatherwayno said:
Nobody in this forum (as far as I see) is opposed to presenting alternative ideas in the correct context. From your posts it appears your school is including Creationism in a science class. This is the wrong place for it. You yourself confirmed Creationism is a position of faith and that evolution theory is a concept of science. It is wrong to associate a position of faith as being appropriate to include in a science class because it gives the students the mistaken impression that both evolution theory and Creationism are equivalent scientific positions.

Your right- it is not science. It can be intergrated into other subjects and teachers always try to do this. When teaching a unit on evolution- this would be a good time to teach about greek mythology in ss or english or read stories about how native americans think the world was created. We never say that it is science. We do say though that some people do not believe it.
I'm only guessing that this is directed to me. If it's not, let me know. (It's hard to decipher when you refuse to use that little 'Quote' button at the bottom of every post you are replying to. ;))

Does the "integration" of creationism in the evolution class, reinforce what the text books say? Does it help the students learn the scientific course better? If so, how?
 
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Telephone

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dad said:
I would be careful revealing ANY personal info, even state or country if I were you. People get fired or arrested for being Christian, and practicing faith these days, when ratted out by some.


Arrested !! ???

:D

"You sir are under arrest for wishful thinking, a shocking lack of critical thought, agenda driven blinkered attacks on the scientific method, poor grammar and despicable spelling"

"But i an imnocent"

"Get in the car sir"

"you people aresaying evulution is how we are made out of rock and munkeys, they said i would be hated this is only the proven i knew it would hapen"

"Sir, please get in the car or we will be forced to subdue you"

you is called my fanily 'APES' you called us just like 'MONKYES' you will burn inhell, mine god will burn you he will love you (as he is allloving™) andthen kill you'

[sound of a Tazer being charged with a full 50,000 volts]


Forgive me I am only kidding with you people, no offense intended :) :)
 
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