I'm not ignoring you, Lulav.
You think that chapter in Revelation refers to a particular time, based on the constellations?
I seem to recall reading something about the movements of the constellations and I'm trying to remember where I saw it. Maybe in the Sybilline oracles?
I'll have to poke around in my books and see if I can find it.
That's great, I was trying to figure out what I did.
Yes, I've studied Revelation for many many years. I used to hold the mainstream view, much like what Shimshon presented until I read more Chirstian books then I care to remember and something just didn't sit right. It's been so long now I forget when that happened. I have a friend who has studied the skies and the patterns using an certain algorithm.
Like I posted about Genesis 1. We are told first off in His Word that he created the starts and the sun and the moon for moedim. This doesn't just mean the yearly ones such as Passover, Sukkot, Etc. But I believe for special events.
Many do not see this because they are afraid, thinking Astronomy is akin to astrology. But this is deception too. HaShem invented these things and others have used them for their own purposes. We are to use them for the purpose he created them for, not ignore them altogether.
The second reason most do not see this is because they aren't familiar with Hydra the water serpent or Draco the Dragon, mainly because they are not part of the twelve astrological signs and they take up much more room in the sky.
These are known from ancient times. Therefore them being referenced in the book of Revelation is no surprise.
And then there is another reason I suppose, like Michael keeps posting, the RCC has usurped this and claimed it as it's own in the 'Mother of G0d, Mary'. Another deception as far as I'm concerned to throw you off from the truth. Just because they claim this does not mean it's true. (Yes Michael I am speaking to you here.
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The stars remain in their courses but in our solar system they appear different from earth depending on what time of year it is. This coupled with how we rotate around the sun and how the moon rotates us gives a much more complicated equation. With all these factors you can see how it can be that HaShem could make this 'vision' appear at a certain time and only one time.
Virgo or the virgin is stationary but the Sun moves across an elliptical. The moon moves in it's own orbit. There was a time when these heavenly objects fulfilled this vision.
The sun was above the head of the virgin and the moon was at her feet. As far as I remember they didn't find the twelve stars reference but that is understandable because back then other things besides stars were called stars, such as meteors or meteorites. These would not be traceable using an algorithm program thus would be hard to find. They would only have been seen at the time they appeared but since they are moving they would not be recoverable on a back in time search. This is my theory.
Now to pinpoint the time though we have the bit in Luke about the magi. I believe they were Jewish sages from Babylon from the Diaspora. They would being studying the Torah and the prophets as well as the night sky.
What they were looking for was the prophecy in Genesis and Numbers. The one Jacob gave about Judah and the one by the gentile Balaam.
Jew:
The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his.
Gentile:
"I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near. A star will come out of Jacob; a scepter will rise out of Israel. He will crush the foreheads of Moab, the skulls of all the sons of Sheth.
They knew at that time that when this was written it was a long time off, but it had been around 1300 years. They also knew it was no King David but would be his offspring.
Of course we have the dream of Joseph
And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said , Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
by this we see that the Sun is Jacob and a star shall come out of him. This is verified by Joseph speaking of eleven stars and him having eleven brothers. Even Jacob understood and said that the moon was his wife Rachel even though she had passed away many years before.
They would have known to look in the sky for this special phenomenon to occur.
Also added into the equation is a star called the kingly star. This also needed to be in play at this time.
My friend had done his calculations and come up with a date, I think it was June 2nd or June 6th. Many discount this because they believe in the 'he tabernacled amoung us' and that he fulfilled Sukkot, I don't think he did. That comes in the haba olam. I haven't done the math to see when this would happen but being at the beginning of June it could very well have fallen on Shavuot. Which might be more appropriate.
Ye shall bring out of your dwellings (homes/houses-Beitim) two wave-loaves (bread -Lechem) of two tenth parts of an ephah; they shall be of fine flour, they shall be baked with leaven, for first-fruits unto the L-RD.
