A Prophet In The Land Of Kedar

[muslimah.]

A PROPHET IN THE LAND OF KEDAR

Prophet Isaiah is considered to be one of the major prophets of the Old Testament. In the Book of Isaiah there are several prophecies about the coming of the Messiah. In chapter 42, Isaiah begins with a prophecy for the coming of prophet Jesus. After verse number nine, God declares through Isaiah, the "new things" that are to "spring forth" in the Land of Kedar.
In the Bible there is only one personality called Kedar. He was the grandson of prophet Abraham, through his son Ishmael (see Gen. 25:13). Kedar's descendants had settled in Paran (Syno-Arabian dessert). In the Rabbinic literature Arabia is called the "Land of Kedar". Prophet Muhammad was a descendant of Kedar.
God declares through Prophet Isaiah;
"Behold, the former things are come to pass, and the new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. `Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth'. Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voices, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. Let them give glory unto the Lord, and declare His praise in the inlands." Isaiah Chapter 42, Verses 9-12.

God did reveal in the Land of Kedar, through prophet Muhammad - a direct descendant of Kedar, a "New Song" - The Qur'an (Koran). This happens to be the only Scripture to be revealed in the language of the Kedarites. The verses of the Qur'an are recited like a poem. Nearly 1.2 billion Muslims, residing all over the world, recite this "new song" and Glorify Allah, in their daily prayers, five times in a day. The initial Revelation came to prophet Muhammad in a cave of Mount Hira near the city of Mecca. There are several mountains near Mecca. During the annual Islamic Pilgrimage called "Hajj", Muslims from all over the world, assemble in Mecca and shout Glory to the Lord from the top of Mount Arafat. The pilgrims continuously give Glory to Allah on their ways, to and from Mecca.

 

[Galilee]

i will paste these verses again:

9 Behold, the former things have come to pass, and new things I now declare; before they spring forth I tell you of them." 10 Sing to the LORD a new song, his praise from the end of the earth! Let the sea roar and all that fills it, the coastlands and their inhabitants. 11 Let the desert and its cities lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar inhabits; let the inhabitants of Sela sing for joy, let them shout from the top of the mountains. 12 Let them give glory to the LORD, and declare his praise in the coastlands.

but what about Sela ?
it is also mentioned here and for some reason you totally ignored it.
according to your way of thinking, if this verse means that there will be a prophet from Kedar, then there is supposed to be a prophet also from Sela ?!?!?! right ?
where is that prophet ?!?!?!?

and to give you some information about Sela:
Sela =Selah, rock, the capital of Edom, situated in the great valley extending from the Dead Sea to the Red Sea (Kg2 14:7). It was near Mount Hor, close by the desert of Zin. It is called "the rock" (Jdg 1:36). When Amaziah took it he called it Joktheel (q.v.) It is mentioned by the prophets (Isa 16:1; Oba 1:3) as doomed to destruction. It appears in later history and in the Vulgate Version under the name of Petra. "The caravans from all ages, from the interior of Arabia and from the Gulf of Persia, from Hadramaut on the ocean, and even from Sabea or Yemen, appear to have pointed to Petra as a common centre; and from Petra the tide seems again to have branched out in every direction, to Egypt, Palestine, and Syria, through Arsinoe, Gaza, Tyre, Jerusalem, and Damascus, and by other routes, terminating at the Mediterranean." (See EDOM [2].)

i didn't hear about a prophet from Petra. did you ?
i didn't know that Edom had a prophet !?!?!

if the "new song" was the qoran as you said because it is the only book that was written as a poem and is being recited, then where is the book of Edom ? this verse says let the inhabitants of Sela sing for joy . does that mean that they also have a "song" that they recite ?
that also means that unlike what you said, the qoran isn't the only book that was written and recited as poetry ?


all of this simply mean that your way of explaining this verse is totally wrong my friend

peace and love

 

[muslimah.]

Does your ignoring to comment about Kedar means that you agree to what I said ?

Can't you see that the text you posted speaks of not only cities but also of the desert , coastlands, seas , villages which means the whole earth including selah will shout glorifying God i.e Allahu Akbar

so what you came up with does not change the truth especially that in Almadinah Almunawwarah area there is a mountain by the name of sali'

to make things more certain read this:-

Isa 21:13 The word about Arabia. In the thick woods of Arabia will be your night's resting-place, O travelling bands of Dedanites!
Isa 21:14 Give water to him who is in need of water; give bread, O men of the land of Tema, to those in flight.
Isa 21:15 For they are in flight from the sharp sword, and the bent bow, and from the trouble of war.
Isa 21:16 For so has the Lord said to me, In a year, by the years of a servant working for payment, all the glory of Kedar will come to an end:
Isa 21:17 And the rest of the bowmen, the men of war of the children of Kedar, will be small in number: for the Lord, the God of Israel, has said it.

 

[Amalcas]

So, you've got Kedar, but do you have the ninth verse? Lets assume a verse is the Word or teaching brought by a (major) prophet. Even counting prophets Muslims don't believe in, Muhammad is only seventh. (Abraham, Krishna, Moses, Buddha, Zoroaster, Christ before Him) So, on that assumption, there would be two more prophets, the second of which would come to Kedar. Many biblical referneces point to Arabia and the surrounding area, both for Christ and the Last Days.
I'm curious, does anyone else have another explanation?

Also, Sela may be time relevant. Infact, to think around that time period (though perhaps it reached its hight a bit later) was constantinople. Any other that fit (I tried to match geography as best as I could).

 

[muslimah.]

So, you've got Kedar, but do you have the ninth verse? Lets assume a verse is the Word or teaching brought by a (major) prophet. Even counting prophets Muslims don't believe in, Muhammad is only seventh. (Abraham, Krishna, Moses, Buddha, Zoroaster, Christ before Him) So, on that assumption, there would be two more prophets, the second of which would come to Kedar. Many biblical referneces point to Arabia and the surrounding area, both for Christ and the Last Days.
I'm curious, does anyone else have another explanation?

Also, Sela may be time relevant. Infact, to think around that time period (though perhaps it reached its hight a bit later) was constantinople. Any other that fit (I tried to match geography as best as I could).

Muslims believe what God told them that He sent a prophet to every nation. so a prophet is a messenger from God whose mission was to convey God's message to the people

their message was basically one : to worship God only and that is the message of Islam.

neither krishna nor Bhudda nor Zoroaster were prophets of God

sela in the text is a place . check up the map of Saudi Arabia & you will find it close to Almadinah Almunawwarah

 

[Amalcas]

I know Islam does not recognize them, but I was trying to prove a point about that. Still, the question of the nine verses remains. Didn't know Sela still existed (perhaps I shoud have checked a map.....).
So, did Muhammad pass through there?

 

[Galilee]

Does your ignoring to comment about Kedar means that you agree to what I said ?

no it doesn't.
i don't agree with what you said, and i didn't ignore Kedar.
i just said why is it wrong even according to your way of expaining these verses.

Can't you see that the text you posted speaks of not only cities but also of the desert , coastlands, seas , villages which means the whole earth including selah will shout glorifying God i.e Allahu Akbar

first' i don't know how you went from "glorifying God" to allahu akbar.
didn't anyone before islam glorify God ?

so what you came up with does not change the truth especially that in Almadinah Almunawwarah area there is a mountain by the name of sali'

what is it called ? SALI' .. not SELA.
and i posted to you information about SELA . the land of Edom.
and simply, it is known as Petra now.

to make things more certain read this:-

Isa 21:13 The word about Arabia. In the thick woods of Arabia will be your night's resting-place, O travelling bands of Dedanites!
Isa 21:14 Give water to him who is in need of water; give bread, O men of the land of Tema, to those in flight.
Isa 21:15 For they are in flight from the sharp sword, and the bent bow, and from the trouble of war.
Isa 21:16 For so has the Lord said to me, In a year, by the years of a servant working for payment, all the glory of Kedar will come to an end:
Isa 21:17 And the rest of the bowmen, the men of war of the children of Kedar, will be small in number: for the Lord, the God of Israel, has said it.

and what exactly does that have to do with this thread ?
so now you will look up every verse in which KEdar was mentioned and paste it ?
i can do that for you if you want.

listen muslimah .. there's something that you must understand
Jews believed in things for thousands of years. and then christians believed in these things for 600 years before mohammed was even born.
to come now and say that Sela is el-madina as example ..?!?!?!
ignoring all the historical and theological and archeological facts ?
do you have any sources to support what you say muslimah ?
let me answer .. no you don't.

peace and love

 

[Galilee]

and here are more sources to give you more information about "sela".

http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Def.show/RTD/ISBE/ID/7783

http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/sela.html

http://www.bartleby.com/65/se/Sela.html

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2001/20010521.htm

and you come and say that Sela is next to El madina ?
and by the way, the word Sela in hebrew ends with "ein" if you speak arabic .

so tell me now ..
if your way of explaining this verse was correct. if Kedar in this verse talks about mohammed and the qoran, then who is the prophet that came from Sela ?
and where is the book of the people of Sela ? the Edoms ? people of Petra ?

do you have any sources to support your words ?

peace and love

 

[Zug-Zwang]

Does your ignoring to comment about Kedar means that you agree to what I said ?

Can't you see that the text you posted speaks of not only cities but also of the desert , coastlands, seas , villages which means the whole earth including selah will shout glorifying God i.e Allahu Akbar

so what you came up with does not change the truth especially that in Almadinah Almunawwarah area there is a mountain by the name of sali'

to make things more certain read this:-

Isa 21:13 The word about Arabia. In the thick woods of Arabia will be your night's resting-place, O travelling bands of Dedanites!
Isa 21:14 Give water to him who is in need of water; give bread, O men of the land of Tema, to those in flight.
Isa 21:15 For they are in flight from the sharp sword, and the bent bow, and from the trouble of war.
Isa 21:16 For so has the Lord said to me, In a year, by the years of a servant working for payment, all the glory of Kedar will come to an end:
Isa 21:17 And the rest of the bowmen, the men of war of the children of Kedar, will be small in number: for the Lord, the God of Israel, has said it.

Isaiah 21 is about the destruction a man from the tents of kedar commits.I can't look at that chapter without thinking about 9-11 cause here you have an Arab flying,coming and you look and destruction is all around,Babylon has fallen fallen.
Oh my people,my people crushed on the threshing floor.The one year time limit is very interesting because 1 year after 9-11 an armada of British and U.S. war planes bombed Babylon on Rosh Hashanna begining the first major offensive taking out S.A.M's,On the next Rosh Hashanna in Sept Rome went into total darkness when a blackout occured and last month on Rosh Hashannah something happened also but I couldnt say without hurting peoples feelings.

 

[muslimah.]

no it doesn't.
i don't agree with what you said, and i didn't ignore Kedar.
i just said why is it wrong even according to your way of expaining these verses.

first' i don't know how you went from "glorifying God" to allahu akbar.
didn't anyone before islam glorify God ?

what is it called ? SALI' .. not SELA.
and i posted to you information about SELA . the land of Edom.
and simply, it is known as Petra now.


and what exactly does that have to do with this thread ?
so now you will look up every verse in which KEdar was mentioned and paste it ?
i can do that for you if you want.

listen muslimah .. there's something that you must understand
Jews believed in things for thousands of years. and then christians believed in these things for 600 years before mohammed was even born.
to come now and say that Sela is el-madina as example ..?!?!?!
ignoring all the historical and theological and archeological facts ?
do you have any sources to support what you say muslimah ?
let me answer .. no you don't.

peace and love

sela is جبل سالع

wether you like it or not it is on the map

but I will be generous with you and say : if you want it to be petra then be it !
for you know that petra and the whole of Middle East embraced Islam , they perform Haj and glorify God in many ways including " God Is Great"

the other prophecy talks about Arabia

and the son of Hagar

If you deny that it is the Arabia and Hagar we all know then there is no sense in continuing this discussion

as for the meaning of it please take a good look :-

Isa 21:13 The word about Arabia. In the thick woods of Arabia will be your night's resting-place, O travelling bands of Dedanites!

this is a prophedy about Arabia


Isa 21:14 Give water to him who is in need of water; give bread, O men of the land of Tema, to those in flight.
Tema is a city in Northern Saudi Arabia تيماء .
Jews lived there at that time
This is an order from God to them to supply him " Muhammad PBUH" with bread & water . we know that he immigrated from Mecca to Almadinah


Isa 21:15 For they are in flight from the sharp sword, and the bent bow, and from the trouble of war.
The reason for the immigration which was ordered by God was to escape from the torture and plot to kill him by Quraish who were the decendants of Qedar


Isa 21:16 For so has the Lord said to me, In a year, by the years of a servant working for payment, all the glory of Kedar will come to an end:
after one year of his immigration a battle erupted between him & Quraish where they got defeated


Isa 21:17 And the rest of the bowmen, the men of war of the children of Kedar, will be small in number: for the Lord, the God of Israel, has said it.
God helped HIS PROPHET and the Muslims by sending angles who fought alongside with them , which made the muslim side larger in number & strength , although in reality Muslims were much less in number & in arms

 

[muslimah.]

listen muslimah .. there's something that you must understand
Jews believed in things for thousands of years. and then christians believed in these things for 600 years before mohammed was even born.

I wish you would apply this to major points in your belief

I mean : Jews did NOT believe in the divinity of Jesus

They did NOT believe in the supposed sin

They did NOT believe in God having a son

but you do !!!

any explanation?

also do you know how many Jewish scholars embraced Islam ?

Have you ever asked yourself what made Muhammad chose to immigrate to Almadinah inspite of his knowledge that the Jews lived in it and therefore they were going to resist his mission ?
they also held all the power positions there

have you asked yourself : how did someone who fled his hometown - without any thing with him - defeat his enemy in on year?

 

[muslimah.]

So, did Muhammad pass through there?

I do not know

the verse talks of the spread of Islam to many areas including it which did happen

 

[Galilee]

sela is جبل سالع

wether you like it or not it is on the map

and there's a village close to us called سالع as well.
so what ?

but I will be generous with you and say : if you want it to be petra then be it !

there's no reason to be "generous" with me.
you aren't doing me a favor !!
Sela is Petra !! that's what all the sources say !!

for you know that petra and the whole of Middle East embraced Islam , they perform Haj and glorify God in many ways including " God Is Great"

but there's no one in Petra anymore !!

Isa 21:16 For so has the Lord said to me, In a year, by the years of a servant working for payment, all the glory of Kedar will come to an end:
after one year of his immigration a battle erupted between him & Quraish where they got defeated

i won't talk too much about these verses.
because this is really too silly..
sorry, but it is.
up there when "kedar" was singing, you said that it talks about mohammed and the qoran.
now when "kedar" get's destroyed it's about qoraysh ?!?!?!
make up your mind please.
does kedar stand for all arabia ? or maybe just mohammed and the qoran and the muslims after him ? or maybe just qoraysh ?
if i follow your own way of explaining the verse about the "singing in kedar", i will say that this verse talks about the distruction of mohammed and muslims.
or you decided that "kedar" in each verse stands for something different ?

I wish you would apply this to major points in your belief

I mean : Jews did NOT believe in the divinity of Jesus

They did NOT believe in the supposed sin

They did NOT believe in God having a son

who told you they didn't ?
not all jews rejected Jesus.
in fact, many of them believed in him and followed him.
if you read the Bible you can learn much about this in the book of Acts.
not to mention Simeon the priest who prayed not to die before seeing the baby Jesus, and he saw him.
and let's not forget when Jesus entered to Jerusalem.

also do you know how many Jewish scholars embraced Islam ?

i can ask the same question.
do you know how many islamic scholars converted to christianity ?
does this prove anything ?

Have you ever asked yourself what made Muhammad chose to immigrate to Almadinah inspite of his knowledge that the Jews lived in it and therefore they were going to resist his mission ?
they also held all the power positions there

simply, because Al-madina was away from quraish.

have you asked yourself : how did someone who fled his hometown - without any thing with him - defeat his enemy in on year?

have you ever asked yourself why did this "someone" leave mecca only with almost 70 believers after 13 years in it, and why is that only after leaving to medina and starting the fights more and more people became muslims ?

peace and love

 

[Galilee]

now .. an extremely important point.
in this thread you quoted the Bible and claimed that it's a prophecy that talks about mohammed.

tell me please, do you believe that the Bible was corrupted ?
or we have the true Bible at these days ?

if you believe that the Bible was corrupted, then you can't quote it to support your belief like you did in this thread. right ?

if you believe that we have the true Bible, then you must believe in everything that it says, including the fact that Jesus is God and that he became flesh and dwelt among us and died on the cross to save us from our sins.

if you believe that some parts were corrupted and other parts are true, then how can you be sure what parts were corrupted and what parts weren't ?
how can you be sure what parts to quote ?
and how can you be sure that the verses that you quoted weren't corrupted ?

so, make up your mind please.
and only after that we can move on in discussing this issue.

peace and love

 

[Amalcas]

And how do we know the Christian translation of certain verses are correct either? Yes, the Bible has had some errors in translation over the years, but its mostly how we translate it. "Every word has a thousand meanings" applies quite well here.

A note about that quote: It was not used to describe the Bible in paticular, but any religious text. Forget who said it...

 

[Galilee]

And how do we know the Christian translation of certain verses are correct either? Yes, the Bible has had some errors in translation over the years, but its mostly how we translate it. "Every word has a thousand meanings" applies quite well here.

A note about that quote: It was not used to describe the Bible in paticular, but any religious text. Forget who said it...

the Bible (NT and OT) has thousands of codexes and rolls from different eras and written in different languages.
some are written on the original languages, and some are translations.
these codexes and rolls were-and are-and will always be studied.
we can't simply ignore that and say we can't get the correct meaning of the Bible.

 

[Amalcas]

I didn't say we couldn't. I was just saying that we probably can't know which (if any) is the true translation until the Last Days. Taken from the Book of Daniel (KJV):

12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

So we may know, yet not understand. There are records of scholars who have essentially decoded the Bible, yet have understood why what was to be, was to be. (Sigh, now THATS a quote I will never find again, something like "I do not know why God shall give such bounty to Babylon")

 

[muslimah.]

All praise be to the ALLMIGHTY GOD for reserving HIS FINAL BOOK.

Muslims DO NOT call a HOLY QURAN anything except the ARABIC Quran cz IT is in the original language which GOD chose for HIS BOOK.

any other is called : the meaning of the words of the HOLY QURAN

the Bible is a translation from a translation which causes all this mess

 

[muslimah.]

and there's a village close to us called سالع as well.
so what ?

I will not continue with this kind of discussion & will ignore your desperate attempts to prove what is clearly crystal clear to all who seek the truth

I repeat : sali' is in the Arabic Bible.
It is in the Almadinah area
It is included in the prophecy as the Biblical text shows & not a seperate prophecy as you claimed

the prophecy talked about arabia
and about the children of Hagar (arabs)

so stop this for it makes you look as if you do not understand what you read

 

[Galilee]

I will not continue with this kind of discussion & will ignore your desperate attempts to prove what is clearly crystal clear to all who seek the truth

I repeat : sali' is in the Arabic Bible.
It is in the Almadinah area
It is included in the prophecy as the Biblical text shows & not a seperate prophecy as you claimed

the prophecy talked about arabia
and about the children of Hagar (arabs)

so stop this for it makes you look as if you do not understand what you read

again, there is really a village next to us called سالع.
can i come and claim that it's Sela that is mentioned in the Bible ?
ALL the historical, theological, and archaeological sources said that Sela is Petra.
you decided that it's located next to El-madina ? give me your proof.
tell me what historical or archaeological sources say that. ok ?

now, i won't move ahead with this thread untill you make up your mind and answer this question that i mentioned in a previous post:

tell me please, do you believe that the Bible was corrupted ?
or we have the true Bible at these days ?. choose in which one out of the next 3 options you believe:

1) if you believe that the Bible was corrupted, then you can't quote it to support your belief like you did in this thread. right ?

2) if you believe that we have the true Bible, then you must believe in everything that it says, including the fact that Jesus is God and that he became flesh and dwelt among us and died on the cross to save us from our sins.

3) if you believe that some parts were corrupted and other parts are true, then how can you be sure what parts were corrupted and what parts weren't ?
how can you be sure what parts to quote ?
and how can you be sure that the verses that you quoted weren't corrupted ?

so, make up your mind please.
and only after that we can move on in discussing this issue.


peace and love