A no religion petition! Rebels only please.

[tadoflamb]

Because I can't talk to every single Catholic in this country I will consider these polls.

Then ask the Church, that's what it's there for.

From what I understand, statistics are derived from parish records, that is, only Catholics who are registered with a parish are counted. At my parish these are constantly being revised as people come and go.

You did say the Catholic Church was shrinking in this country. From where I sit and from Catholic sources, that's simply not true.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Then ask the Church, that's what it's there for.

Catholic parishes in my hometown and all throughout my state have been closing parishes down and consolidateing because of poor church attendance. And this isn't just a Catholic Church thing because the Luthren Church has been experiencing the same thing as well as other mainline Protestant denominations.

You did say the Catholic Church was shrinking in this country. From where I sit and from Catholic sources, that's simply not true.

Yes, and you're from Tucson where the population has been booming for the last 50 years. Perhaps that's why your parish is growing also. You also have a very large Mexican population down there and they are heavily Roman Catholic. But to say that Catholic church attendance throughout the whole country isn't falling is just blind denial and just simply isn't true.

 

[tadoflamb]

According to us we're growing.

Who am I going to believe, the Church or the world?

Death to the World!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

According to us we're growing.

Who am I going to believe, the Church or the world?

Death to the World!

That is based on your own personal choice of course.....I however will go with my bro and patron Saint Tyndale

http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/william-tyndale.html

.......A clergyman hopelessly entrenched in Roman Catholic dogma once taunted Tyndale with the statement, “We are better to be without God’s laws than the Pope’s”.
Tyndale was infuriated by such Roman Catholic heresies, and he replied, “I defy the Pope and all his laws. If God spare my life ere many years, I will cause the boy that drives the plow to know more of the scriptures than you!”.....................

 

[nephilimiyr]

More articles, more polls.

Attendance Fact File--Center for Missional Research - NAMB.net

http://au.christiantoday.com/article/largest-christian-groups-report-membership-decline/5567.htm

Georgetown University

Even the very website that tadoflamb posts to show that Catholic Church attendance is on the rise actually shows that it has been stagant, not showing any increase at all.
http://cara.georgetown.edu/AttendPR.pdf

Trends among U.S. Christians

 

[nephilimiyr]

According to us we're growing.

Who am I going to believe, the Church or the world?

Death to the World!

Wrong, according to the same site you posted, the Catholic Church is not growing but is stagnant.

http://cara.georgetown.edu/AttendPR.pdf

The Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate
Georgetown University
January 10, 2005
Self-reported Mass Attendance of U.S. Catholics
Unchanged during Last Five Years​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Wrong, according to the same site you posted, the Catholic Church is not growing but is stagnant.

http://cara.georgetown.edu/AttendPR.pdf

The Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate
Georgetown University
January 10, 2005
Self-reported Mass Attendance of U.S. Catholics
Unchanged during Last Five Years​

:o

 

[dies-l]

Wrong, according to the same site you posted, the Catholic Church is not growing but is stagnant.

http://cara.georgetown.edu/AttendPR.pdf

The Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate
Georgetown University
January 10, 2005
Self-reported Mass Attendance of U.S. Catholics
Unchanged during Last Five Years​

What is the measuring stick of Church growth? Is it really all about numbers? The largest church in America is known for its superficiality and unwillingness to preach the gospel in Truth. Is that representative of what the church ought to strive for? Should we all flock to Houston and join Lakewood? After all, that Joel Osteen is quite the preacher -- he doesn't teach the Bible, but he sure can draw a crowd!

 

[nephilimiyr]

What is the measuring stick of Church growth? Is it really all about numbers? The largest church in America is known for its superficiality and unwillingness to preach the gospel in Truth. Is that representative of what the church ought to strive for? Should we all flock to Houston and join Lakewood? After all, that Joel Osteen is quite the preacher -- he doesn't teach the Bible, but he sure can draw a crowd!

Well I certainly don't just look at the numbers, I also interact with people. Go talk to some people who used to attend church but no longer do, they have alot to say. The church isn't listening to them, that's for sure. The church is too busy defending itself to listen.

 

[nephilimiyr]

:o

For many of the mainline protestant churches the story is the same.

 

[stelow]

The Church belongs to Jesus and He has equipped us to build that Church. The enemy has tried to divide us ever since the church's infancy, after it began on the Day of Pentecost, and many of God's children have fallen into the trap.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Church belongs to Jesus and He has equipped us to build that Church. The enemy has tried to divide us ever since the church's infancy, after it began on the Day of Pentecost, and many of God's children have fallen into the trap.

Tis true

Matthew 8:12 The yet Sons of the Kingdom shall be being Cast-Out into the darkness, the Outer/exwteron <1857>.
There shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.

 

[nephilimiyr]

The Church belongs to Jesus and He has equipped us to build that Church. The enemy has tried to divide us ever since the church's infancy, after it began on the Day of Pentecost, and many of God's children have fallen into the trap.

And in my estimation we are losing the current battle. This generation is in trouble and until the Church adresses that things are only going to get worse! Honestly folks, we have to get back to the basics of grace through faith, back to the basics of life.

 

[itisdeliciouscake]

Tis true

Matthew 8:12 The yet Sons of the Kingdom shall be being Cast-Out into the darkness, the Outer/exwteron <1857>.
There shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.

in that context it means Jews.
=P

 

[squint]

And in my estimation we are losing the current battle. Honestly folks, we have to get back to the basics of grace through faith, back to the basics of life.

Which of the myriad lists and details of what that might be and consist of may you suggest to gather under?

???

Such agreement flags barely exist whatsoever, IF at all currently.

 

[nephilimiyr]

The Church belongs to Jesus and He has equipped us to build that Church. The enemy has tried to divide us ever since the church's infancy, after it began on the Day of Pentecost, and many of God's children have fallen into the trap.

And in my estimation we are losing the current battle. Honestly folks, we have to get back to the basics of grace through faith, back to the basics of life.
YouTube - 4 Him - Basics of Life

 

[nephilimiyr]

Which of the myriad lists and details of what that might be and consist of may you suggest to gather under?

???

Such agreement flags barely exist whatsoever, IF at all currently.

What do you mean by "agreement flags"? I wasn't talking about agreement. Nor was I talking about lists and details. You're asking me to answer a strawman question. The gospel message is simple, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. There are no lists and details other than that. And, in my humble opinion, the reason why the Church isn't growing is because we made it into a bunch of lists and details and then argue about them amongst ourselves profusely.

 

[squint]

What do you mean by "agreement flags"? I wasn't talking about agreement. Nor was I talking about lists and details.

You stated:
"Honestly folks, we have to get back to the basics of grace through faith,"

Pick a term, any term. Any term WILL always [without fail] and provably consistantly fall into disagreements and subjectivity.

You're asking me to answer a strawman question.

Strawman? lol. Just the term 'religion' caused a several post wrangle right here in this thread, with no determination by any of the posters between themselves.

This fact is no strawman in the 'religious' world whatsoever. And even more so on some particular terms, such as 'faith' of 'grace.'

There are scriptural reasonings about why such things are so, and will remain so regardless of anyones attempts to gain unity.

The gospel message is simple, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

What does 'believe' mean? Who is Jesus?

Orthodoxy remains split for centuries now merely trying to define the verbiage over how to view God in Christ, yet alone what it means to 'believe.'

There are no lists and details other than that.

I could provide several counters to your simplicity that would effectually ERADICATE that understanding as being 'the only view available.' And therein lies the difficulty. If one is to be true to the text, the text will provide MANY alternative views, almost down to each and every individual reflecting upon same [which the text itself claims to cause.]

And, in my humble opinion, the reason why the Church isn't growing is because we made it into a bunch of lists and details and then argue about them amongst ourselves profusely.

I certainly don't disagree, but funneling it down to a simplicity as you propose will at the same time DENY a mulititude of 'alternative presentations' in the text, so the simplicity is not as simple as you propose and would perhaps be better served to be expanded rather than simplified to do honor to the texts own wide spread presentations.

s

 

[Sphinx777]

What do you mean by "agreement flags"?

​

​

 

[Frogster]

It is also because of the pastors.They minister out of their own maturity level,and right now it is out of legalism,which brings forth death,and puts those in the pews to sleep.It seems like alot of churches are totally dominated by the thoughts of one man,rather than letting those in the "audience" participate.Here is a verse that in most churhes,is not quoted by the pastor,because he is hogging the pulpit with his egocentric 'teaching",usally brought on by his own stagnation.


1 Cor 14:26
What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.