Feb 26, 2016
14
7
39
Atlanta, GA
✟15,169.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Update: If you go to post #40 below (page 2), I inserted an excerpt from Part 4 of my series which does a pretty good job at showing how Genesis is a polemic. There are so many responses on this thread that I'm afraid it got lost in the mix.

I struggled with reconciling the science of creation/evolution with Genesis for a long time.

I ended up doing a lot of research and found that most Biblical scholars interpret Genesis differently than the majority of pastors and church-goers.

This interpretation resolved this whole creation/evolution debate for me.

I'm writing about this "polemic" interpretation if you want to follow along with me:


If you have big doubts about faith, I'm hopeful this will get rid of a big area for you like it has for me.

-Stephen

Creation/Evoultion: (Part 2) Is There a Right Answer?
 
Last edited:

NonTheologian

Active Member
Feb 24, 2016
138
66
59
Dallas
✟639.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I struggled with reconciling the science of creation/evolution with Genesis for a long time.

I ended up doing a lot of research and found that most Biblical scholars interpret Genesis differently than the majority of pastors and church-goers.

This interpretation resolved this whole creation/evolution debate for me.

I'm writing about this "polemic interpretation" on my blog, practical-christianity.com.
-Stephen

You might take a look at the book Genesis, Creation and Early Man: The Orthodox Christian Vision
 
Upvote 0
Feb 26, 2016
14
7
39
Atlanta, GA
✟15,169.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private

It looks like this author's basis for his interpretation of Genesis is what the Church Fathers believed. The problem is that our Church Fathers didn't know about Enuma Elish and other ancient creation accounts because they hadn't been discovered yet.

These accounts threw Genesis into an entirely different light and helped us understand the author's intent.
-Stephen
 
Upvote 0

In situ

in vivo veritas
May 20, 2013
1,754
324
Amsterdam
✟15,712.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
I struggled with reconciling the science of creation/evolution with Genesis for a long time.

Have you listened to any of George Coyne's talks regarding this issues?
(Coyne is an American astrophysicist and as well a Catholic priest).

In addition, have you read the books by Ken Miller such as (if I recall the title right) Finding Darwin's God? I haven't read them myself, but Ken Miller is a believer, a biologist and a well known author of American high school biology text books used in most US high school.

Edit: I've have read through your blog post. It is very touching to read about your struggle. I am not a believer myself, but I don't see why anyone shall not be able to reconcile a bleif in god and science at the same time. I am not able to believe their exist a a god myself, but for those that do and can reconcile their belief with science I do admire. I think it is a beautiful thing to do, however I am not one of those able to do that - nor, as a personal point of view, I do not see any point in doing it. Still I hope you will be able to find your god again and live your life in peace with yourself, your family and beliefs. Take care!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Feb 26, 2016
14
7
39
Atlanta, GA
✟15,169.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Have you listened to any of George Coyne's talk reagarding this issues?

In addition, have you read the books by Ken Miller such as (if I recall the title right) Finding Darwin's God? I haven't read them myself, but Ken Miller is a believer, a biologist and a well known author of American high school biology text books used in most US high school.

Edit: I've have read through your blog post. It is very touching to read about your struggle. I am not a believer myself, but I don't see why anyone shall not be able to reconcile a bleif in god and science at the same time. I am not able to believe their exist a a god myself, but for those that do and can reconcile their belief with science I do admire. I think it is a beautiful thing to do, however I am not one of those able to do that - nor, as a personal point of view, I do not see any point in doing it. Still I hope you will be able to find your god again and live your life in peace with yourself, your family and beliefs. Take care!
No, I haven't but I googled him and looks like I definitely agree with his views.

"The author of Genesis simply wasn’t doing what Newton, Darwin, Einstein, and Hawking were doing; he wasn’t attempting to explain the origins of things in the characteristically modern manner, which is to say, on the basis of empirical observation, testing of hypotheses, marshalling of evidence, and experimentation... Once we get past the “bad science” confusion, the opening of the Bible gives itself to us in all of its theological and spiritual power" Wordonfire.org

I haven't read Ken Miller's work either (though I have read Michael Behe's work). It looks like I definitely need to read through Ken's work. The synopsis really intrigued me; looks like some really reasonable views. Very cool! Thanks for passing along!

Edit: Thank you for your kind words! It's not often I run across people that are so open minded and "okay" with others' beliefs. I really appreciate it.
Honestly, for me, it all comes back to the fact that none of us really know where we came from (when you go back to pre-big bang). That's how I'm okay with there being a God but I fully understand the basis for a belief that there isn't a God. Anyways, thanks again!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: In situ
Upvote 0

NonTheologian

Active Member
Feb 24, 2016
138
66
59
Dallas
✟639.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
It looks like this author's basis for his interpretation of Genesis is what the Church Fathers believed. The problem is that our Church Fathers didn't know about Enuma Elish and other ancient creation accounts because they hadn't been discovered yet.

These accounts threw Genesis into an entirely different light and helped us understand the author's intent.
-Stephen

Good point. They also never had the opportunity to read Origin of the Species, or watch Carl Sagan or Neil deGrasse Tyson. In fact, they didn't even have Internet, so they wouldn't have been able to benefit from the wealth of material that Christian Forums would have afforded them.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I struggled with reconciling the science of creation/evolution with Genesis for a long time.I ended up doing a lot of research and found that most Biblical scholars interpret Genesis differently than the majority of pastors and church-goers.


Past events cannot be tested. Future events (controlled experiments and observations)
can be predicted. Science only can see into the future, not the past.
The past is always a matter of faith.
 
Upvote 0

AionPhanes

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2015
841
430
Michigan
✟18,174.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
Past events cannot be tested. Future events (controlled experiments and observations)
can be predicted. Science only can see into the future, not the past.
The past is always a matter of faith.

People can have justifiable beliefs about the past that are both evidentially and scientifically supported. It's not a blind leap of faith all the time.

Just because one may never have 100% certainty about the past doesn't imply that some explanations are not significantly more probable than others. It also doesn't imply that we should never reject certain explanations as unfounded, unsupported, unrealistic, improbable, etc....
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

essentialsaltes

Stranger in a Strange Land
Oct 17, 2011
33,238
36,554
Los Angeles Area
✟829,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Past events cannot be tested. Future events (controlled experiments and observations)
can be predicted. Science only can see into the future, not the past.
The past is always a matter of faith.

It's clear you've come up with a way to ease your cognitive dissonance, but I really think you've thrown the baby out with the bathwater here. We might as well give up on court trials and forensic science if 'the past is always a matter of faith'.
 
Upvote 0
Feb 26, 2016
14
7
39
Atlanta, GA
✟15,169.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Past events cannot be tested. Future events (controlled experiments and observations)
can be predicted. Science only can see into the future, not the past.
The past is always a matter of faith.

Perhaps a more direct point may be helpful here; I'm not quire sure I see the connection.
-Stephen
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Feb 26, 2016
14
7
39
Atlanta, GA
✟15,169.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Why does there have to be a New Interpretation of Genesis? What is wrong with the hundreds we already have?
Nothing is wrong with the hundreds of years we already have. I think God spoke to our forefathers using the knowledge they had at the time. We are really doing the same thing our forefathers did. We are taking the knowledge we have now - both scientific and archaeological - and interpreting Genesis as best we can to determine what God is trying to tell us.
-Stephen
 
Upvote 0

In situ

in vivo veritas
May 20, 2013
1,754
324
Amsterdam
✟15,712.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
No, I haven't but I googled him and looks like I definitely agree with his views.

"The author of Genesis simply wasn’t doing what Newton, Darwin, Einstein, and Hawking were doing; he wasn’t attempting to explain the origins of things in the characteristically modern manner, which is to say, on the basis of empirical observation, testing of hypotheses, marshalling of evidence, and experimentation... Once we get past the “bad science” confusion, the opening of the Bible gives itself to us in all of its theological and spiritual power" Wordonfire.org

That sound like something both Ken Miller and George Coyne could had said, and what most Christians in Europe would say as well. That is a particular talk of Coyne I like a lot, it pretty balanced, but I don't have the link for it right now. I post it later. Coyne and Richard Dawkins also had a talk with each other and I think it could be very interesting for you to listen to it as well.

(FYI, I am an European and f.a.p.p. an atheist, however philosopicaly speaking I am an agnostic).

I haven't read Ken Miller's work either (though I have read Michael Behe's work). It looks like I definitely need to read through Ken's work. The synopsis really intrigued me; looks like some really reasonable views. Very cool! Thanks for passing along!

I have read Behe as well, and if you ask me for my opinion about his ideas, it wont come out in favor for Behe ("pseudoscience" is a mild word I would use). Nor will Ken Miller - in fact Ken Miller witnessed against Behe in the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District court case.

If you haven taken part of the story, I would strongly recommend you to dig into it and watch the documentaries and listen to the presentation Ken Miller has done after the trial.

Edit: Thank you for your kind words! It's not often I run across people that are so open minded and "okay" with others' beliefs. I really appreciate it.

It has nothing to do with being "open minded", I still think a belief in any supernatural is unfounded even silly at times. To me this is about common sense; treat people with sensible opinions and rational thoughts with respect. I have respect for your struggle with your belief. It touched my heart to read about it. I don't like to see people suffer and if losing your belief means you will suffer I rather see you keep your belief - but a balanced belief. In general it does not matter to me what you believe. It only matters when someones beliefs cause suffering - to self or others.

I.e. this is not about me having an "open mind" but me having empathy with another fellow human being.

Honestly, for me, it all comes back to the fact that none of us really know where we came from (when you go back to pre-big bang). That's how I'm okay with there being a God but I fully understand the basis for a belief that there isn't a God. Anyways, thanks again!

I don't mean to say this as criticism to your current belief, but if you base your belief on this kind of argument then it makes up for a shallow and weak foundation for your belief. I would suggest you find a more solid based for your belief than this, and I think Ken Miller and George Coyne can help you find such solid base. That is why I recommend them in the first place. (I will dig up some links to talk they have and post).

As I see it, a faith belief is what your heart tells you is "true". In my opinion, our belief has a purpose but that purpose is not to reflect the truth about reality. Instead our beliefs reflect our attitude and judgments about reality, if your belief in a god makes you a better person, then I think you should go for it 100%. If you find your beliefs make you a worse person, then it is time to question your beliefs. Because, in the end it does not matter what we believe, but how we treat each other.

Now, the only problem is to figure out what it means to be a "better person"... in my opinion, it does not start with assuming, something is or must be, "true" or "right". It start by looking at yourself - first.

Anyway, I am drifting far to way off the off topic so I better stop.
 
Upvote 0
Feb 26, 2016
14
7
39
Atlanta, GA
✟15,169.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
OK, that is kind of what I thought you meant. Bronze Age hunter/gathers need Bronze Age explanation.


Oh, and by the way, Welcome to Christian Forums!

Thanks! This has been a more welcoming environment than I figured it would be (especially on this topic).
-Stephen
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

In situ

in vivo veritas
May 20, 2013
1,754
324
Amsterdam
✟15,712.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Science only can see into the future, not the past.

This is not the tread to discuss this but i fell I need to make a short remark on this opinion.

Your assertion is obviously a false statement. Not only for the obvious fact that the laws of physics does not see a difference in what direction time runs, but for a range of other reasons as well, which I wont go into.

Worth to mention is that your claim is part of a "thinking toolkit", such as the Wedge Strategy, which purpose is to undermine the trust in science:

where you there.jpg
 
Upvote 0