A holy waste of time....

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Uphill Battle

People can't even agree on what it means, to persevere to the end.

If people don't agree on doctrines or this-or-that interpretation, what does that suggest to you?

Endure/persevere.........till End

#5278 used 18/17 times in NT. 4 times in Gospels..........

24:13 The yet one enduring/upomeinaV <5278> (5660) to a finish, this-one shall be being saved. [Matt 10:22/Mark 13:13]

Textus Rec.) Matthew 24:13 o de upomeinaV eiV teloV outoV swqhsetai

Strong's Number G5278 matches the Greek &#8017;&#960;&#959;&#956;&#8051;&#957;&#969; (hypomen&#333;), which occurs 18 times in 16 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

5278. hupomeno hoop-om-en'-o from 5259 and 3306; to stay under (behind), i.e. remain; figuratively, to undergo, i.e. bear (trials), have fortitude, persevere:--abide, endure, (take) patient(-ly), suffer, tarry behind.

5259. hupo hoop-o' a primary preposition; under, i.e. (with the genitive case) of place (beneath), or with verbs (the agency or means, through); (with the accusative case) of place (whither (underneath)
3306. meno men'-o a primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):--abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.

 

[MrPolo]

Agreed. The one who was able to make the authors inerrant.

This must be agreement day.

 

[freeport]

No, not really, but I was wondering if anyone else ever had the feeling, deep down inside, of bitter disappointment with themselves. As follows...

<snip>

No, I am good.

...

Sounds like you may be thinking of starting a new thing.

Doesn't mean the old was bad. Maybe you are just tired of it.




There are times to move on.

 

[Uphill Battle]

move on? to what?

 

[JohnDB]

move on? to what?

To something else.

Here is what.

God loves all of us. There are no rewards in Heaven for being the most theologically correct while here on Earth. Peter himself was given to error at times...and he walked side by side with Jesus.

Given that...God must just want us to do our best even though it will be riddled with sin.

Paul talks about this some within Ephesians 6 when he speaks about putting on the full armor of God. Never once did Paul say for any of us to lead the charge...he just said for us to put on the armor and let God do the fighting for us. The armor is for our protection and defense...not for attacking. Our attack is in our standing and acts of service (like a waitor in a restaraunt).

God makes and shapes each of us to be the best vessel we can be. Some aren't going to be that high, thin walled and pretty vessel like a wine carafe...some will just be heavy walled and low...but all are vessels.


We all are here to give glory and honor to God. By that I mean tell others what good things God has done for you personally. You will find it a much more rewarding path. Then you are telling what you know beyond all shadow of doubt...and others can't argue that point at all now can they?

 

[nhisname]

No, not really, but I was wondering if anyone else ever had the feeling, deep down inside, of bitter disappointment with themselves. As follows...

We can feed the poor, clothe them, minister to the sick... but we can never really do enough!

We can attempt to love sin free, we can strive, but we will fail. (I know some think that it's possible to attain near complete holiness on this earth, but I don't buy that. Human nature dicates otherwise.)

We can debate, or argue or discuss, or persuade correct theology (or what we consider is correct theology) without ever making so much a dent in the "opposition" and have no ACTUAL assurances beside our SELF assurance that we have attached ourselves to the correct theology, That we should be doing any such thing in the first place. It's the "this is the way everything should be" when it's exceedingly doubtful that any of us have it all right.

We can say we'll pray more, but even the most devout do not "pray without ceasing" as is detailed. Much ballyhoo has been made about making your life a prayer, and suchlike, but then, my second point comes in to play. Hard to live a prayer, while you yet sin!

You can try to follow God's will... if you can identify clearly what it is, but our dull eyes and plugged ears miss the point so frequently. We oft look for God to rubber stamp our plans as his will, instead of the other way around, and I find myself wondering how many opportunities we walk by without even noticing.

We can have faith in Grace, no doubt. That above all is the only redeeming feature of our lives as Christians, not our own actions, not our prayers, not our works, not us... but it oft leaves an empty feeling that (although you can't earn it) you can't live up to it.

I can't give up Christianity any more than I can breathing, I know that it's true. Jesus came and died for us. All else is foolishness compared to it. It just seems to be an unenviable paradox, if I were bad at Golf (and I am) So bad that almost every shot ended up in the sand or the water, I doubt I'd keep playing!

We could cloister ourselves from the world to pray and study, and devoting our life to holiness, and still sin anyways. Besides which, it would be possible to overlook a large portion of our lives by doing so. On the flip side, we can denounce the cloistered life, and state that we must be IN the world (but not of it) to serve others, and fail to do that as well.

Please excuse my musings... I don't really have a point.

Jesus said to be my disciple you must deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow me... I didn't really understand what that meant until I started maturing as a Christian. The Christian life is very hard. When we are saved our whole life changes. Our actions and attitudes, solely depend on him. I am nothing on my own but when I let the gentle shepherd lead me O what joy I have in my heart. When life starts to be too much find a quiet place and let the Father soothe your soul with peace. Don't give up brother, the best is yet to come..rewards are given to him that endures to the end.

 

[Thekla]

Being a Christian is "holy waste" - a positive thing

Consider, lands set aside to Christ - Christian temples - are not used to raise food, manufacture durable goods or create personal wealth. Wasted land dedicated to the holy, to Christ.

The martyrs, who in a "practical" or worldly sense "wasted" their lives because they refused to denounce Christ.

Ordinary Christians, who forego spending all of their time on wordly practicalities and self-serving as they seek to move toward Christ Who is "not of this world".

Wasteful indeed, holy waste ... how absolutely beautiful !!!!!!

glory be to Jesus Christ +

 

[nhisname]

thanks for this.

I "know" (intellectual assent) that all good things are from God, and of God, My disgust is with ourselves (myself.)

It almost feels like a G.I. Joe complex. do battle, fight back, rise above, DO something! don't know if that makes any sense.

What are you trying to rise above? Do you feel as if you are not doing enough? We can do nothing on our own. We will always have the radicals, arguers, prideful people until Christ comes back, this will not change no matter how much you do or we do. He uses the evil as well as the good in his plans .

 

[rahmiyn]

What are you trying to rise above? Do you feel as if you are not doing enough? We can do nothing on our own. We will always have the radicals, arguers, prideful people until Christ comes back, this will not change no matter how much you do or we do. He uses the evil as well as the good in his plans .

If I had to guess, I would think he's struggling among Christians themselves, some of the ways they act towards others, the different teachings, who's right, who's wrong, that kind of thing.

I could be wrong, but I got that sense when I read his OP, and if that is the case, he can only find answers by seeking God and reading the gospels and epistles with the help of the Holy Spirit.

I do recommend this with all my heart, Uphill.

 

[Uphill Battle]

I'm not arguing in this particular thread for one faith or another. I just don't think you should de facto assume that the Holy Spirit cannot guide one Church or another or even Joe Pastor down the street, or heck this or that author of Scripture. I don't understand where that idea comes from.

I don't assume the HS can't lead, I know it can and does. I just don't hold to an absent promise of constant perfection.

To something else.

Here is what.

God loves all of us. There are no rewards in Heaven for being the most theologically correct while here on Earth. Peter himself was given to error at times...and he walked side by side with Jesus.

Given that...God must just want us to do our best even though it will be riddled with sin.

Paul talks about this some within Ephesians 6 when he speaks about putting on the full armor of God. Never once did Paul say for any of us to lead the charge...he just said for us to put on the armor and let God do the fighting for us. The armor is for our protection and defense...not for attacking. Our attack is in our standing and acts of service (like a waitor in a restaraunt).

God makes and shapes each of us to be the best vessel we can be. Some aren't going to be that high, thin walled and pretty vessel like a wine carafe...some will just be heavy walled and low...but all are vessels.


We all are here to give glory and honor to God. By that I mean tell others what good things God has done for you personally. You will find it a much more rewarding path. Then you are telling what you know beyond all shadow of doubt...and others can't argue that point at all now can they?

It feels like there should be something more. I knw that it's Christ alone who is Good, and all good things come from God. I am just musing that it's reprehensible that we (I) seem to do so much less than is possible, sin so much more than is neccessary (that sounds different than it should. ) that we waste so much effort on the trivia, and treat the important in a trivial manner.

Jesus said to be my disciple you must deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow me... I didn't really understand what that meant until I started maturing as a Christian. The Christian life is very hard. When we are saved our whole life changes. Our actions and attitudes, solely depend on him. I am nothing on my own but when I let the gentle shepherd lead me O what joy I have in my heart. When life starts to be too much find a quiet place and let the Father soothe your soul with peace. Don't give up brother, the best is yet to come..rewards are given to him that endures to the end.

I am not prone to give up. I just feel like we should be FIGHTING or something. Not just placidly being "guided." (and that is not saying that we shouldn't be guided by the Shepherd, far from it.) But it feels like we should be sword-swinging at injustice. Righting wrongs. I don't know how to explain it.

Being a Christian is "holy waste" - a positive thing

Consider, lands set aside to Christ - Christian temples - are not used to raise food, manufacture durable goods or create personal wealth. Wasted land dedicated to the holy, to Christ.

The martyrs, who in a "practical" or worldly sense "wasted" their lives because they refused to denounce Christ.

Ordinary Christians, who forego spending all of their time on wordly practicalities and self-serving as they seek to move toward Christ Who is "not of this world".

Wasteful indeed, holy waste ... how absolutely beautiful !!!!!!

glory be to Jesus Christ +

always a beautiful insight, Thekla... thank you....

What are you trying to rise above? Do you feel as if you are not doing enough? We can do nothing on our own. We will always have the radicals, arguers, prideful people until Christ comes back, this will not change no matter how much you do or we do. He uses the evil as well as the good in his plans .

I'm not thinking that we can earn anything, just that we SHOULD do more.

An example is, you march in step with the others, that certainly makes you a solider, just like the others. But it' the ones who run back across enemy lines, to rescue the shot and dying, who stand up against huge odds agains the enemy, and win the day (A la Rambo) that seem to be doing something of infinitely more value.

Perhaps it's a hero complex. I don't want to just be ordinary, I want to get out their and "fight." (Take Joshua, and Caleb as examples from scripture.) But I recognize that I'm not even qualified to be in boot camp.

 

[JohnDB]

Doesn't God use the simple to confound the wise?

The good things don't have to be complicated. Real relationships take time to form. And when you have a real relationship and you share what and how Good God has been to you...that says more than any fancy thing ever stated by anybody.

Just think about it.

 

[christianmomof3]

We are and always will be failures.
But, the wonderful thing is that the Lord loves us and died for us and lives within those of us who are His redeemed and regenerated believers.
Everything that we cannot do - He can.
He is our life and our life supply.
I can never pray enough or be good enough or read the Bible enough or share the Lord with others in a proper way.
But, He lives in me.
And the more I turn my heart to Him and pray, read the Bible, fellowship with other Christians, and enjoy Him, the more He grows in me and transforms me into His image.
It is nothing of me, but all of Him.
This is our reality.
We cannot, but He can.
And He does.

 

[visionary]

That cup of water offered when God stirred you to offer, will mean more than a thousand words.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*

...................We can debate, or argue or discuss, or persuade correct theology (or what we consider is correct theology) without ever making so much a dent in the "opposition" and have no ACTUAL assurances beside our SELF assurance that we have attached ourselves to the correct theology, That we should be doing any such thing in the first place. It's the "this is the way everything should be" when it's exceedingly doubtful that any of us have it all right..............................

Please excuse my musings... I don't really have a point.

I found this part of the OP interesting.

Has anyone ever noticed the number of different Christian affiliation Icons showing on CF? This is one reason there will always be endless debates, argements, discussions simply because of so much diversity within Christiandom.

And this is also 1 reason I will not be posting much on CF in the future.

I also humbly believe everyone that is a Christian should have 1 Icon

 

[ticker]

No, not really, but I was wondering if anyone else ever had the feeling, deep down inside, of bitter disappointment with themselves. As follows...

We can feed the poor, clothe them, minister to the sick... but we can never really do enough!

We can attempt to love sin free, we can strive, but we will fail. (I know some think that it's possible to attain near complete holiness on this earth, but I don't buy that. Human nature dicates otherwise.)

We can debate, or argue or discuss, or persuade correct theology (or what we consider is correct theology) without ever making so much a dent in the "opposition" and have no ACTUAL assurances beside our SELF assurance that we have attached ourselves to the correct theology, That we should be doing any such thing in the first place. It's the "this is the way everything should be" when it's exceedingly doubtful that any of us have it all right.

We can say we'll pray more, but even the most devout do not "pray without ceasing" as is detailed. Much ballyhoo has been made about making your life a prayer, and suchlike, but then, my second point comes in to play. Hard to live a prayer, while you yet sin!

You can try to follow God's will... if you can identify clearly what it is, but our dull eyes and plugged ears miss the point so frequently. We oft look for God to rubber stamp our plans as his will, instead of the other way around, and I find myself wondering how many opportunities we walk by without even noticing.

We can have faith in Grace, no doubt. That above all is the only redeeming feature of our lives as Christians, not our own actions, not our prayers, not our works, not us... but it oft leaves an empty feeling that (although you can't earn it) you can't live up to it.

I can't give up Christianity any more than I can breathing, I know that it's true. Jesus came and died for us. All else is foolishness compared to it. It just seems to be an unenviable paradox, if I were bad at Golf (and I am) So bad that almost every shot ended up in the sand or the water, I doubt I'd keep playing!

We could cloister ourselves from the world to pray and study, and devoting our life to holiness, and still sin anyways. Besides which, it would be possible to overlook a large portion of our lives by doing so. On the flip side, we can denounce the cloistered life, and state that we must be IN the world (but not of it) to serve others, and fail to do that as well.

Please excuse my musings... I don't really have a point.

Hey there Uphill!

Got a few things to say to that...

1. The Christian road you've been given isn't for you to walk...it's for Christ to walk for you. That's Christianity.

2. There's no condemntation for those who are in Christ Jesus...so why in the world would you even contempate condemning yourself when even God wouldn't do so.

and

3. We aren't called to serve (...contrary to what most Christians falesly think). We're called to rest in our faith (....service then coming as a by product of that).

What did Jesus tell his followers to do so that they may accomplish the works of God???.....believe. That's how Grace works.

If a Christian doesn't understand Grace though, they'll just fall victim to some religious, rule-of-thumb Christianity (...like thinking they should just follow the greatest commandment ) which has absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel. After all, it was a pharisee lawyer who Jesus told the greatest commandment of the Law to....and if one knows their Bible, they'll now what the Law was meant for.

Prayers

 

[ticker]

That's why we Hold the Faith and perservere to the End. It's much easier to give up then it is too forge on.

....actually, giving up is exactly what we're supposed to do. You've got it backwards I'm afraid.

 

[ticker]

People can't even agree on what it means, to persevere to the end.

...what does people agreeing or not on what something means have to do with what it actually means? LOL.

Just because someone might falsely believe that persevering to the end is about us thinking we have to make every effort to live for God (or something to that effect) doesn't make it the Gospel (.......'cause actually, it sooo ain't ). Persevering is what happens...not what we make happen.

Peace

 

[ticker]

Jesus told us to love, God first with all our being, and then love all we know or meet, as we would like to be loved/treated.

Nope....He didn't tell us to do that.

He answered Law with Law.

 

[ticker]

I think the whole point of following Jesus has more to do with what we can't see than what we can see. If we follow his commands, good will come of it.

That's not true....in fact the Bible tells us good won't come of it at all.

We're told the Law actually arouses the sinful passions of the flesh....that it's condemnation and death to the believer....that it's a curse.....didn't you know the Bible tells us all these things?

But, even Jesus said "the poor will be with us always," which tells me he understands our actions will not remedy all suffering, but that still does not devalue any good action.

The same is true for "running the good race." We strive for good and leave the rest to God.

Sorry....that just isn't biblical. Christ actually runs the race......all we're meant to strive for is for Him to do it...and that alone. 'Cause really...nothing good can come apart from the Lord.......that's biblical.

Peace

 

[ticker]

God loves you when you are humbly and broken for then He can shine through you.

...close. He loves you and pours His Grace on you even when you're not those things.