A holy waste of time....

[Uphill Battle]

No, not really, but I was wondering if anyone else ever had the feeling, deep down inside, of bitter disappointment with themselves. As follows...

We can feed the poor, clothe them, minister to the sick... but we can never really do enough!

We can attempt to love sin free, we can strive, but we will fail. (I know some think that it's possible to attain near complete holiness on this earth, but I don't buy that. Human nature dicates otherwise.)

We can debate, or argue or discuss, or persuade correct theology (or what we consider is correct theology) without ever making so much a dent in the "opposition" and have no ACTUAL assurances beside our SELF assurance that we have attached ourselves to the correct theology, That we should be doing any such thing in the first place. It's the "this is the way everything should be" when it's exceedingly doubtful that any of us have it all right.

We can say we'll pray more, but even the most devout do not "pray without ceasing" as is detailed. Much ballyhoo has been made about making your life a prayer, and suchlike, but then, my second point comes in to play. Hard to live a prayer, while you yet sin!

You can try to follow God's will... if you can identify clearly what it is, but our dull eyes and plugged ears miss the point so frequently. We oft look for God to rubber stamp our plans as his will, instead of the other way around, and I find myself wondering how many opportunities we walk by without even noticing.

We can have faith in Grace, no doubt. That above all is the only redeeming feature of our lives as Christians, not our own actions, not our prayers, not our works, not us... but it oft leaves an empty feeling that (although you can't earn it) you can't live up to it.

I can't give up Christianity any more than I can breathing, I know that it's true. Jesus came and died for us. All else is foolishness compared to it. It just seems to be an unenviable paradox, if I were bad at Golf (and I am) So bad that almost every shot ended up in the sand or the water, I doubt I'd keep playing!

We could cloister ourselves from the world to pray and study, and devoting our life to holiness, and still sin anyways. Besides which, it would be possible to overlook a large portion of our lives by doing so. On the flip side, we can denounce the cloistered life, and state that we must be IN the world (but not of it) to serve others, and fail to do that as well.

Please excuse my musings... I don't really have a point.

 

[boswd]

That's why we Hold the Faith and perservere to the End. It's much easier to give up then it is too forge on.

 

[Uphill Battle]

People can't even agree on what it means, to persevere to the end.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Uphill Battle. You say you are a Christian, and you can`t give up Christianity, yet you call it " a holy waste of time." It seems to me, you are trying hard to please God, when it is quite easy. Let go, Uphill Battle, let God. If we try to run ahead of the Lord, it will be a waste of time, we are to follow our Leader. Let your love take over, ask Jesus to lead you in all you do, or say. Jesus told us to love, God first with all our being, and then love all we know or meet, as we would like to be loved/treated. Love is catching, love changes lives, love is unquonquerable, never disappointed, always ready to help with heart and hands. We will experience life abundantly, that is a promise from our Lord, and thousands of Christian men and women, can, and will testify to the truth of it, myself included. Let go of the wrong believe," a holy waste of time," and give yourself a chance. I say this humbly and with love, UphillBattle. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[visionary]

God loves you when you are humbly and broken for then He can shine through you.

 

[MrPolo]

People can't even agree on what it means, to persevere to the end.

If people don't agree on doctrines or this-or-that interpretation, what does that suggest to you?

 

[Uphill Battle]

Thank God we are not saved by doing...but by being...being in Christ..who does His pleasure through us..

indeed. I'm just identifying the unsatisfying propensity within us (myself) to fail.

Our best doings are said in the Bible to be filthy rags...discard the rags and rest in Christ. Most error emerged through an escape into good activities to please a God who wanted first our fellowship. Will you love a son always out there working for you but you never see.

All is well.

I know all is well, only based on my faith in Christ. I'm just trying to explain, identify my dissapointment in myself. Not in Christ.

Dear Uphill Battle. You say you are a Christian, and you can`t give up Christianity, yet you call it " a holy waste of time."

I think we waste alot of time and effort on "being holy." I think you'd need to understand what I mean by that though.

It seems to me, you are trying hard to please God, when it is quite easy.

No, I'm dissatisfied with myself. Not with God, or his plan.

Let go, Uphill Battle, let God. If we try to run ahead of the Lord, it will be a waste of time, we are to follow our Leader. Let your love take over, ask Jesus to lead you in all you do, or say. Jesus told us to love, God first with all our being, and then love all we know or meet, as we would like to be loved/treated. Love is catching, love changes lives, love is unquonquerable, never disappointed, always ready to help with heart and hands. We will experience life abundantly, that is a promise from our Lord, and thousands of Christian men and women, can, and will testify to the truth of it, myself included. Let go of the wrong believe," a holy waste of time," and give yourself a chance. I say this humbly and with love, UphillBattle. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

I appreciate your exhortation, Emmy. I just don't think it matches up exactly with what it is I'm talking about.

 

[Uphill Battle]

God loves you when you are humbly and broken for then He can shine through you.

does that mean he loves less, when you are not broken?

If people don't agree on doctrines or this-or-that interpretation, what does that suggest to you?

that frankly, Men are little better than apes... and are only so, because God says so. Humanity=stupidity, all to frequently.

 

[rahmiyn]

\
We can feed the poor, clothe them, minister to the sick... but we can never really do enough!

I think the whole point of following Jesus has more to do with what we can't see than what we can see. If we follow his commands, good will come of it. But, even Jesus said "the poor will be with us always," which tells me he understands our actions will not remedy all suffering, but that still does not devalue any good action.

The same is true for "running the good race." We strive for good and leave the rest to God.

 

[PassthePeace1]

No, not really, but I was wondering if anyone else ever had the feeling, deep down inside, of bitter disappointment with themselves. As follows...

We can feed the poor, clothe them, minister to the sick... but we can never really do enough!

We can attempt to love sin free, we can strive, but we will fail. (I know some think that it's possible to attain near complete holiness on this earth, but I don't buy that. Human nature dicates otherwise.)

We can debate, or argue or discuss, or persuade correct theology (or what we consider is correct theology) without ever making so much a dent in the "opposition" and have no ACTUAL assurances beside our SELF assurance that we have attached ourselves to the correct theology, That we should be doing any such thing in the first place. It's the "this is the way everything should be" when it's exceedingly doubtful that any of us have it all right.

We can say we'll pray more, but even the most devout do not "pray without ceasing" as is detailed. Much ballyhoo has been made about making your life a prayer, and suchlike, but then, my second point comes in to play. Hard to live a prayer, while you yet sin!

You can try to follow God's will... if you can identify clearly what it is, but our dull eyes and plugged ears miss the point so frequently. We oft look for God to rubber stamp our plans as his will, instead of the other way around, and I find myself wondering how many opportunities we walk by without even noticing.

We can have faith in Grace, no doubt. That above all is the only redeeming feature of our lives as Christians, not our own actions, not our prayers, not our works, not us... but it oft leaves an empty feeling that (although you can't earn it) you can't live up to it.

I can't give up Christianity any more than I can breathing, I know that it's true. Jesus came and died for us. All else is foolishness compared to it. It just seems to be an unenviable paradox, if I were bad at Golf (and I am) So bad that almost every shot ended up in the sand or the water, I doubt I'd keep playing!

We could cloister ourselves from the world to pray and study, and devoting our life to holiness, and still sin anyways. Besides which, it would be possible to overlook a large portion of our lives by doing so. On the flip side, we can denounce the cloistered life, and state that we must be IN the world (but not of it) to serve others, and fail to do that as well.

Please excuse my musings... I don't really have a point.

I think you make some excellent points, can't say I haven't mused upon some myself thru my spiritual journey. The truth lies in we are suppose to make ourselves small, in order for God to glorifiy Himself in us. We can come to realize that everything in us that is good, is from God, and even the act of loving Him is a gift that He Graced us with, and not of our own goodness.

 

[MrPolo]

that frankly, Men are little better than apes... and are only so, because God says so. Humanity=stupidity, all to frequently.

None of us is as stupid as all of us, quite often, I agree with you there. Just attend a business meeting with a lot of people in it sometime. However, when you see differing opinions on interpretation, why should we assume they are "all stupid"? In ancient times, when someone preached in Christ's name something contrary to the teaching of the Apostles, should we lump them all together and throw them out? Apostles and all who are part of this group teaching different interpretations of prophecy? Of course not! That is throwing the baby out with the dirty bath water. Confusion is a devilish tactic, and he is able to thwart the effort of someone telling the truth by lining up his peers against him, in an effort to make it look like they are all a bunch of baboons.

Remember, this is the argument of atheists against theists. They say: "Look at all these different claims to the truth. What a mess. They all claim the truth, therefore none can be right. Religious people are a bunch of monkeys." You see?

Of course, without the Holy Spirit, none of us at the end of the day have a real claim to speaking the truth. But the power of God raises man above the creatures.

 

[Uphill Battle]

None of us is as stupid as all of us, quite often, I agree with you there. Just attend a business meeting with a lot of people in it sometime. However, when you see differing opinions on interpretation, why should we assume they are "all stupid"? In ancient times, when someone preached in Christ's name something contrary to the teaching of the Apostles, should we lump them all together and throw them out? Apostles and all who are part of this group teaching different interpretations of prophecy? Of course not! That is throwing the baby out with the dirty bath water. Confusion is a devilish tactic, and he is able to thwart the effort of someone telling the truth by lining up his peers against him, in an effort to make it look like they are all a bunch of baboons.

Remember, this is the argument of atheists against theists. They say: "Look at all these different claims to the truth. What a mess. They all claim the truth, therefore none can be right. Religious people are a bunch of monkeys." You see?

Of course, without the Holy Spirit, none of us at the end of the day have a real claim to speaking the truth. But the power of God raises man above the creatures.

you're picking up on a secondary, or even tertiary point to what I wrote in the OP.

I don't worry that much about who has every iota correct... I don't think any one of us does.

what irks me is the constant infighting, without anything more than our belief that the people whoa are teaching us are 100% accurate.

I also do not state that it's all a mess, therefore none of it can be true. I clearly believe in Christ, I just bemoan the uselessness that we lend ourselves to so frequently.

 

[Memento Mori]

you're picking up on a secondary, or even tertiary point to what I wrote in the OP.

I don't worry that much about who has every iota correct... I don't think any one of us does.

what irks me is the constant infighting, without anything more than our belief that the people whoa are teaching us are 100% accurate.

I also do not state that it's all a mess, therefore none of it can be true. I clearly believe in Christ, I just bemoan the uselessness that we lend ourselves to so frequently.

I wouldn't say it useless for us to argue our claims. We deal with important subjects--our salvation, how to best obey God, how to interpret certain passages in the Bible. We all have to stand somewhere, and only one belief system can be true. It's importantly--eternally important--that we investigate and hold our beliefs to the flame.

I probably misunderstood what you're saying though.

 

[MrPolo]

I don't worry that much about who has every iota correct... I don't think any one of us does.

what irks me is the constant infighting, without anything more than our belief that the people whoa are teaching us are 100% accurate.

I also do not state that it's all a mess, therefore none of it can be true. I clearly believe in Christ, I just bemoan the uselessness that we lend ourselves to so frequently.

I agree about the fighting.

When you say no one has everything right, why do you say that?

 

[Uphill Battle]

I think you make some excellent points, can't say I haven't mused upon some myself thru my spiritual journey. The truth lies in we are suppose to make ourselves small, in order for God to glorifiy Himself in us. We can come to realize that everything in us that is good, is from God, and even the act of loving Him is a gift that He Graced us with, and not of our own goodness.

thanks for this.

I "know" (intellectual assent) that all good things are from God, and of God, My disgust is with ourselves (myself.)

It almost feels like a G.I. Joe complex. do battle, fight back, rise above, DO something! don't know if that makes any sense.

 

[Uphill Battle]

I wouldn't say it useless for us to argue our claims. We deal with important subjects--our salvation, how to best obey God, how to interpret certain passages in the Bible. We all have to stand somewhere, and only one belief system can be true. It's importantly--eternally important--that we investigate and hold our beliefs to the flame.

I probably misunderstood what you're saying though.

No we don't. (as a rule.) we fight about who's the best, who dips people right, who worships right, who knows the most, who understands the best.

I agree about the fighting.

When you say no one has everything right, why do you say that?

basic understanding of humanity.

 

[MrPolo]

basic understanding of humanity.

I would agree with you if not for the intervention of the Holy Spirit, Who is the true inerrant One.

 

[Uphill Battle]

ah, Polo, that will just take is to the "The HS spirit promised we'd do things perfectly" no he didn't yes he did no he dindn't yes he did, no, yes, no, yes. HERETIC ! HEATHEN!

argument.

I know what you believe, you know I don't share it.

 

[MrPolo]

ah, Polo, that will just take is to the "The HS spirit promised we'd do things perfectly" no he didn't yes he did no he dindn't yes he did, no, yes, no, yes. HERETIC ! HEATHEN!

argument.

I know what you believe, you know I don't share it.

I'm not arguing in this particular thread for one faith or another. I just don't think you should de facto assume that the Holy Spirit cannot guide one Church or another or even Joe Pastor down the street, or heck this or that author of Scripture. I don't understand where that idea comes from.

 

[simonthezealot]

I would agree with you if not for the intervention of the Holy Spirit, Who is the true inerrant One.

Agreed. The one who was able to make the authors inerrant.