A flat earth, and Noah's Ark.

Kenneth Redden

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The biblical understanding of the universe is much the same as that of the surrounding cultures in the ancient Middle East at the time when it was written.
Maybe, however; the understanding of the Universe in Paul's demonstration is consistent with our understanding today, and tomorrow; and the next day, in the KJV Bible.
 
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dqhall

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The legend of Noah is based on early Mesopotamian flood legends. The Tigris and Euphrates Rivers originate in mountains of eastern Turkey near Mt. Ararat. Every spring the snow upon these mountains melted swelling the rivers as they flowed towards Babylonia. There were severe floods covering the Mesopotamian plain that swept away homes, livestock and people. Some of these floods were recorded in the 19th century. In the four thousand year old story of Atrahasis, God spoke to Atrahasis through the wall of his home and told him to build a boat as a great flood was coming. Atrahasis built the boat and saved his family and livestock from the flood surge. It is an early example of people believing God is able to sense things before people do. It is also a testimony God likes some people and will work to save them.

Currently there are numerous Turkish dams along these rivers that reduce the likelihood of flooding and lessen the amount of irrigation water available to Iraq.
 
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JacksBratt

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Wouldn't Noah's Ark have gone over the side of a flat earth?

flat-earth-society.jpg
Happy New Year, Brinny,

According to the promoted "Flat Earth Model", Antarctica is a huge ice wall that surrounds the circular "plate" shaped flat earth. Antarctica is what holds the oceans in.

So, Noah would not go off the edge, anymore than we can or would today.

If the earth was or is a flat plate shaped world with a dome over top like a snow globe... God could have just filled it up, like a snow globe, left some space at the top for the ark, then drained the water out to the level we have today.

Supposedly, modern "globe earth science" shows Antarctica as a continent Island at the south pole, when in fact it is the rim of our flat earth plate.

The Antarctic treaty was formed to keep people away from investigating it for themselves and realizing that it is not what they say.

Supposedly, there is no midnight sun on Antarctica. Supposedly, if you sail around the continent you will sail many many more miles than the circumference of the earth and never get back to your starting point. There are documented reports and ship logs from famous ocean navigators from the 1800's and before, that indicate that they did just that. Searching for an inlet into the Continent, but sailing for months and not only not finding an inlet but not returning to their original start point for thousands of nautical miles.

There is also documentation from seasoned expert sailing navigators who could not understand why their charts and "dead reckoning" navigation never meshed with the globe earth charts.

You can easily look it up. It is quite interesting.
 
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JacksBratt

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The legend of Noah is based on early Mesopotamian flood legends. The Tigris and Euphrates Rivers originate in mountains of eastern Turkey near Mt. Ararat. Every spring the snow upon these mountains melted swelling the rivers as they flowed towards Babylonia. There were severe floods covering the Mesopotamian plain that swept away homes, livestock and people. Some of these floods were recorded in the 19th century. In the four thousand year old story of Atrahasis, God spoke to Atrahasis through the wall of his home and told him to build a boat as a great flood was coming. Atrahasis built the boat and saved his family and livestock from the flood surge. It is an early example of people believing God is able to sense things before people do. It is also a testimony God likes some people and will work to save them.

Currently there are numerous Turkish dams along these rivers that reduce the likelihood of flooding and lessen the amount of irrigation water available to Iraq.
Every tribe and culture has a legend, of some sort, about an earth covering catastrophic flood.
 
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Goatee

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No, that's not what I read, according to Paul's revelation. I read that Noah existed in the earth of another dispensation which is, another universe. That is how Noah did it without breaking any of the laws of this Universe.
It appears that all had not known about this Universe when Paul asks, "if ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God," which is our Universe of today; the fourth day of the Creation.
So, no; high hills and mountains do not refute the concept. Try again, but I don't think you even have an argument in this discussion, from your perspective. :)
[Eph 3:2 KJV] 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Interpretation. All down to that.
 
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Actually, this Universe could not have existed until the fourth day of the creation, when the stars were made. These things sound like science fiction because we are just now discovering our world. Remember, the KJV Bible has to give 21st Century concepts to 21st Century minds using the primitive languages of primitive peoples. Not an easy task.
But, it appears as though he has done it through logical format and underlying discourse patterns that exist in the KJV Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

First, I was not implying that God cannot do what we would consider as impossible. But There is a difference between God and His miracles versus science fiction written by men. God's miracles glorify HImself. Science fiction written by men glorifies himself.

Second, the text does not say the universe was created on day 4 (Meaning the dimension of space itself). God just placed the stars and everything in the universe on day 4. There is no indication He created an actual special new dimension of space time on day 4. For it says,

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
(Genesis 1:14-19).

It would be inaccurate to say the universe (implying the dimension of space) was created on day 4 because on days 2-3, the foundations of the Earth were being created like the formation of the atmosphere, the land coming out of the sea with the vegetation growing upon it.

Kenneth Redden said:
The apostle Peter gives demonstration of the days of the creation in the doublet offered in 2 Peter 3:3-8 KJV.

Three, as for 2 Peter 3:3-8: Well, I provided a commentary within the text to help you to see what it is saying.

3 "Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” [i.e. from the point of Adam and Eve onward]
5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, [i.e. The six literal 24 hour day creation]
6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. [i.e. the world of Adam and Eve was destroyed being flooded with water] [Note: Planet Earth itself was not destroyed, but merely everything that lived and breathed on the Earth was destroyed].
7 But by His word the present heavens and earth [Note: The word "present" does not suggest an entirely new universe or new Earth. Also, the word "heavens" is not in relation to planets here but in relation to the atmosphere] are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men."
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. [Note: This is not saying that the Lord had created everything in 6000 years; It is in reference to God's perspective on time and how He is long suffering towards us - See verse 9.].


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brinny

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No, why would you say that, is it in the KJV Bible?
If it is not addressed in the KJV Bible, it is not an issue and none of our concern. Please don't confuse the wisdom of God with, "with enticing words of man's wisdom." 1 Corinthians 2:4.

Except that claiming a "flat" earth, is the equivalent of the very thing you speak of:

"with enticing words of man's wisdom."

There is nothing in the KJV Bible about a "flat" earth.

Again, it's a legitimate question:

Wouldn't Noah's Ark have gone over the side of a flat earth?

flat-earth-society.jpg
 
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brinny

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Happy New Year, Brinny,

According to the promoted "Flat Earth Model", Antarctica is a huge ice wall that surrounds the circular "plate" shaped flat earth. Antarctica is what holds the oceans in.

So, Noah would not go off the edge, anymore than we can or would today.

If the earth was or is a flat plate shaped world with a dome over top like a snow globe... God could have just filled it up, like a snow globe, left some space at the top for the ark, then drained the water out to the level we have today.

Supposedly, modern "globe earth science" shows Antarctica as a continent Island at the south pole, when in fact it is the rim of our flat earth plate.

The Antarctic treaty was formed to keep people away from investigating it for themselves and realizing that it is not what they say.

Supposedly, there is no midnight sun on Antarctica. Supposedly, if you sail around the continent you will sail many many more miles than the circumference of the earth and never get back to your starting point. There are documented reports and ship logs from famous ocean navigators from the 1800's and before, that indicate that they did just that. Searching for an inlet into the Continent, but sailing for months and not only not finding an inlet but not returning to their original start point for thousands of nautical miles.

There is also documentation from seasoned expert sailing navigators who could not understand why their charts and "dead reckoning" navigation never meshed with the globe earth charts.

You can easily look it up. It is quite interesting.

Happy New Year to you too :)

i have looked it up and i was unfortunately left with more questions than i originally had.
 
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Yes, I am aware of our place in the Milky Way, sir. But this is irrelevant to the first, second and third day of the creation. The stars were not made until the fourth day of the creation; therefore, the earth could not have been round until, today, the fourth day when, "he made the stars also" in Genesis 1:16.

They were literal 24 hour days. There is also no indication in the text that there was another Earth that was flat besides the Earth we are on now (that is a sphere). The text does not say there two different Earths. The text also does not say there are two different universes, either. Why would God's Word hide something like that if it were true?


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John Hyperspace

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The real question to me is, why is any of this important? Does it matter what the shape of the earth is? What good does this pursuit accomplish, other than just another way to divide people? I could see if it was somehow necessary to salvation; but, is it? Are these the type of questions that are "foolish" and "unprofitable and vain"? Titus 3:9. What profit is there in this strife?

The Antarctic treaty was formed to keep people away from investigating it for themselves and realizing that it is not what they say.

It's odd that if you Google "visit Antarctica" or "travel Antarctica" you get a lot of hits; apparently people routinely trek across it. Is this all lies? Have you actually looked into this "treaty of forbidding" or is this all hearsay?
 
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The real question to me is, why is any of this important? Does it matter what the shape of the earth is? What good does this pursuit accomplish, other than just another way to divide people? I could see if it was somehow necessary to salvation; but, is it? Are these the type of questions that are "foolish" and "unprofitable and vain"? Titus 3:9. What profit is there in this strife?



It's odd that if you Google "visit Antarctica" or "travel Antarctica" you get a lot of hits; apparently people routinely trek across it. Is this all lies? Have you actually looked into this "treaty of forbidding" or is this all hearsay?

We are told in God's Word to ...."Preach the Word." When we preach the truth of God's Word we are standing up for what is true and right. When people get the Bible wrong and do not care to declare the truth of it, then people can be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. People today need a solid foundation of truth in God's Word.

Does it matter if one preaches flat Earth vs. an Earth that is a sphere?
I would say that it does matter because people would be less likely to accept a preacher's Word on accepting Jesus if that preacher had odd theories about the universe that go outside of God's Word.


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John Hyperspace

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We are told in God's Word to ...."Preach the Word." When we preach the truth of God's Word we are standing up for what is true and right. When people get the Bible wrong and do not care to declare the truth of it, then people can be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. People today need a solid foundation of truth in God's Word.

I don't recall "flat/round earth" being a part of the gospel, or, either covenant of faith. You speak of a solid foundation, but there is no way possible to know what shape the earth actually is. The best you can do is trust someone else's word on the matter. That seems to me a far cry from "solid foundation" and I believe our solid foundation is in Christ; certainly not in physical sciences.

Does it matter if one preaches flat Earth vs. an Earth that is a sphere?
I would say that it does matter because people would be less likely to accept a preacher's Word on accepting Jesus if that preacher had odd theories about the universe that go outside of God's Word....

There is no way to know which is the "odd theory" By chance, do you believe in an ancient earth and the formation of man by evolutionary mechanisms? If no (and I am advocating nothing), you're also likely to be considered having "odd theories": what I'm saying is, you're on a slippery slope here. A slippery slope with no edification anywhere around it; completely without profit, and good for nothing but stirring up strife and division.
 
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John Hyperspace

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Ummm, WHAT!? Please explain...

If you could certainly demonstrate the shape of the earth, no one could dispute it. The fact that it is disputed shows there is no certainty. I am sure you have plenty of "evidence" just as the flat-earthers; yet, in truth, there is no way to confirm that what you're being told is certainly true. It is an unknowable based on appeal to authority.

In other words, just because people say it, doesn't necessarily mean it's true.
 
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