MJ Only A couple questions for Messianic Jews

[CodyFaith]

Hi,

I'm new to faith in Christ but have a background of going to convert to Judaism. One of the main reasons I chose not to, besides questioning Judaism altogether, was that I wouldn't technically be a Jew by law and would be considered to be "just like Ruth"(who was a Moabite in my eyes, never an Israelite.)
My first question is, is it possible to join the Messianic Jewish movement and be seen as a Jew even if I can't prove it ancestrally? I don't want to be considered a convert and not an Israelite, I truly believe if not know entirely that I'm a lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Another question, and I don't want it up for debate, so preferably only Messianic Jews who believe Christ is God answer, but is there a big division in the movement for those who believe Christ is God and those who believe He isn't? I believe He is, and my faith will not waiver in this.

To go along with my second question, I know of a synagogue around here that has a few members but they are mostly compromised of Jews who do not believe Jesus is God and only the Messiah. As a Messianic Jew who believes Jesus is God, would you attend this synagogue? I felt really uncomfortable once I found out they did not, and doubt I would feel comfortable at services as again, it's small.

Fourth, do some Messianic Jews still celebrate Christmas & Easter? Again, I don't want a debate running, and I don't need to know the facts as I already know both sides to the argument, I just want to know if some still do or don't.

Fifth, is God's name typically seen as YHVH? Aswell, is it true that YHWH is not possible because there is no w sound in Hebrew? That is what I was told by the Rabbi I talked to, aswell googled it quickly and saw some sites saying that.

Hopefully I can get these answered, thank you for your time.

 

[visionary]

Messy .. isn't it... being called out... it is a interesting walk...Sounds like you are using common sense, good faith in the Word, and I pray that you find a congregation that shares the same walk as you.

I never knew that "we" existed.. those of us of this faith.. until I came to CF and learned about this group. Even in this group we have some who have different paths than the rest. It is good to test everyone's ideology against the Word of God, helps you solidify what is true.

You may not find anyone close, but you have us here.. if that helps I am also a "Ruth" who makes no attempt to be a Messianic Jew and am very content being a part of the Messianic Judaism movement.

 

[gadar perets]

Since no one seems to want to answer your questions directly, I'll give some a try.

My first question is, is it possible to join the Messianic Jewish movement and be seen as a Jew even if I can't prove it ancestrally?

How does anyone prove they are Jewish short of possibly a DNA test or possess records dating back hundreds/thousands of years?

Another question, and I don't want it up for debate, so preferably only Messianic Jews who believe Christ is God answer, but is there a big division in the movement for those who believe Christ is God and those who believe He isn't? I believe He is, and my faith will not waiver in this.

Since I believe Messiah is an elohim, but not "God", you would prefer I don't answer.

To go along with my second question, I know of a synagogue around here that has a few members but they are mostly compromised of Jews who do not believe Jesus is God and only the Messiah. As a Messianic Jew who believes Jesus is God, would you attend this synagogue? I felt really uncomfortable once I found out they did not, and doubt I would feel comfortable at services as again, it's small.

You would prefer I don't answer.

Fourth, do some Messianic Jews still celebrate Christmas & Easter?

Some do, but for the most part I would say no.

Fifth, is God's name typically seen as YHVH? Aswell, is it true that YHWH is not possible because there is no w sound in Hebrew? That is what I was told by the Rabbi I talked to, aswell googled it quickly and saw some sites saying that.

Hopefully I can get these answered, thank you for your time.

As I understand it, the vav/waw in the Tetragrammaton can be pronounced "oo" in Biblical Hebrew. The Jewish Virtual Library here says, "Vav, usually a consonant pronounced as a "v," is sometimes a vowel pronounced "oo" (u) or "oh" (o)." Modern Hebrew has it as a consonant (v) in the Name, but Josephus tells us the Name consists of "four vowels". Each letter in the Tetragrammaton is pronounced as a vowel with an open mouth (ee ah oo eh).

 

[Lulav]

Since this thread was started to ask questions of Messianic Jews and not all those
a part of Messianic Judaism I'd like for us to respect the OP's wishes and post accordingly.​

Hi Cody and welcome again

Hi,

I'm new to faith in Christ but have a background of going to convert to Judaism. One of the main reasons I chose not to, besides questioning Judaism altogether, was that I wouldn't technically be a Jew by law and would be considered to be "just like Ruth"(who was a Moabite in my eyes, never an Israelite.)
My first question is, is it possible to join the Messianic Jewish movement and be seen as a Jew even if I can't prove it ancestrally? I don't want to be considered a convert and not an Israelite, I truly believe if not know entirely that I'm a lost sheep of the house of Israel.

I'm not sure I understand your reasoning of not wanting to convert. As Jews we do believe that Ruth converted and became part of the tribe of Judah. She is the great grandmother of King David who is considered the first Jewish King. Yeshua descends from him and also is a Jewish King, the Lion of Judah.

As to your first question, anyone may 'join' the movement but to be seen as a Jew you must be either born Jewish or had a Jewish conversion. If you don't want to be seen as a convert and not an Israelite the only thing left is a Jew, which means you need to have been born from a mother or father who was part of the tribe of Judah, Benjamin or Levi.

Another question, and I don't want it up for debate, so preferably only Messianic Jews who believe Christ is God answer, but is there a big division in the movement for those who believe Christ is God and those who believe He isn't? I believe He is, and my faith will not waiver in this.

All who are in the Movement are believers, either Jew or Gentile. To be a Messianic Jew in this understanding is to believe in Moschiah, Messiah Yeshua.

Now as far as him being G-d, yes most believe he is G-d the Son, not G-d the Father. But he has been given all power now so in essence is G-d. This is the story we see with Joseph. He was only second to Pharaoh himself, and the Pharaoh was King but also considered G-d. When they spoke to Joseph it was as if they were speaking directly to Pharaoh, he was given his ring, which was his seal so in all matters of what he did it was the same as if Pharaoh did it himself. Same with Yeshua and the Father.

To go along with my second question, I know of a synagogue around here that has a few members but they are mostly compromised of Jews who do not believe Jesus is God and only the Messiah. As a Messianic Jew who believes Jesus is God, would you attend this synagogue? I felt really uncomfortable once I found out they did not, and doubt I would feel comfortable at services as again, it's small.

If you do not feel comfortable there, don't go. But if you are strong in your convictions, maybe you are being called to be there.

Fourth, do some Messianic Jews still celebrate Christmas & Easter? Again, I don't want a debate running, and I don't need to know the facts as I already know both sides to the argument, I just want to know if some still do or don't.

Yes, It happens mainly in mixed marriages, meaning one is Jewish the other Gentile. I don't believe in celebrating either, and I don't compromise, even for my Gentile Husband.

Fifth, is God's name typically seen as YHVH? Aswell, is it true that YHWH is not possible because there is no w sound in Hebrew? That is what I was told by the Rabbi I talked to, aswell googled it quickly and saw some sites saying that.

That is the English equivalent of the Hebrew, or also seen YHWH. The pronunciation has been lost and to keep from breaking the 3rd commandment it is traditional to say HaShem (the Name) or Elohim, Adonai, or Adonai Elohenu, El Shaddai is also used on some occasions and the letter Shin which begins Shaddai is used on most all mezzuzot.

Hopefully I can get these answered, thank you for your time.

I hope I've answered your questions, if you have more, please feel free to ask!

 

[1John2:4]

Hi Cody Shabbat shalom,
I have never posted here so I hope I am not breaking any rules I do apologize to everyone if I am. I just wanted to say that my heart goes out to you because I am in a simaler place as you. I found a small group In my area by going to 119 ministries website and they have a ministry finder. I am not able to go because my husband does not agree with my new beliefs. There are a lot of people coming into truth searching to find other believers. They are usually small groups (home gatherings). It does feel very lonely at times especially because my family and friends think I have been deceived. I will pray for you.

 

[1John2:4]

To reply to your other questions, I personally do not do xmas and Easter because I believe it goes against the creators instructions Dueteronomy 6:14 he is a jealous God and he battled against the ba'als and ashtrroth all through the bible so why would it be ok to use those days to honor our Messiah?
Your question about is Yeshua God I am not sure I see verses such as John 1 that prove it and Shema that seems to differ. I am still in that journey for truth. Yeshua means God is salvation but I'm not sure he is the father. I have mixed feelings about the trinity I just really am not sure either way.
His name I am still learning. I read in a messianic book that LORD translated back to ba'al. I have not fully tested this yet but it made me more aware of using His name instead of LORD. The Jews use Adonai (my mother is a Jewish convert and that is what she uses). I don't know where Adonai came from but they think is out of line to say his name. I don't really agree with not calling on his name. I have not read in the bible anywhere where that is a sin. It may just be Jewish tradition.

 

[Questions&Answers]

I'm not sure I understand any of these questions. As a Christian or Christ Follower, does it really matter? It sounds like right fighting to me, is that what God wants? We can debate scripture, judge, blame or condemn others for what they believe or how they believe but is that what He wants for us? To argue points back and forth...

To me it seems we can easily lose sight of what's important on our journey. What's your purpose? Is it to follow Him and be the example to others or is to ritualistically follow all of God's law to perfection (which is impossible)? I think a good church should focus more on community and fellowship and encourage believers so that they too can encourage others who may be astray. Don't be mislead, all churches don't have it right and they never will. Somewhere down the line man gets in the way and sin creeps in. I tend focus more on that than debate scripture. God wants a personal relationship with us. Rabbis, priests, ministers, pastors, etc. do their best at expressing God's word and conveying their interpretations which is all good but in the end it is up to us to decide what His word is to us. To put Faith in Him and His word should trump everything. Debating faith or religion with others of what's right or wrong can be a slippery slope.

"Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are. But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are. For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood.” ~ Rom 3:19-25

 

[CodyFaith]

This was a long while ago, I'm more mature in my faith walk and am no longer seeking guidance in this area... don't know why old threads are being resurrected...

 

[gadar perets]

To me it seems we can easily lose sight of what's important on our journey. What's your purpose? Is it to follow Him and be the example to others or is to ritualistically follow all of God's law to perfection (which is impossible)?

Seeking perfection through the law? No. Seeking to avoid sin by keeping the law? Yes.

"Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are. But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are. For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood.” ~ Rom 3:19-25

Seeking to be made right by keeping the law instead of through faith in Yeshua is wrong. Seeking to avoid walking in unrighteousness by keeping the law after one is made right through faith in Yeshua is right.

 

[gadar perets]

This was a long while ago, I'm more mature in my faith walk and am no longer seeking guidance in this area... don't know why old threads are being resurrected...

I am curious to know if you chose to convert to Judaism or become a Messianic Jew and what you now believe concerning the Name.

 

[Questions&Answers]

So keeping the law of the Sabbath, what happens to those who believe Jesus Christ is their "rest", are they wrong? What of those who are not Jewish, should they adhere to all feast/holidays (for example: Yom Kippur & Passover)?
Why did Christ come if his only purpose was to say follow the law and if you don't that's why I died so you could repent? Then it would seem Jesus was sent only for the Jews, what about everyone else? I suppose if I were Jewish or a Messianic Jew then I could understand better? Are we only to follow the 10 commandments or all of God's laws? Since a large segment of the Christian population doesn't adhere to the Sabbath (Saturday), are they damned? I guess it's not for you to judge but I choose to believe that Jesus came to give peace and spread the good news that he is our saviour not just to the Law but also to the lost.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Hi,

I'm new to faith in Christ but have a background of going to convert to Judaism. One of the main reasons I chose not to, besides questioning Judaism altogether, was that I wouldn't technically be a Jew by law and would be considered to be "just like Ruth"(who was a Moabite in my eyes, never an Israelite.)
My first question is, is it possible to join the Messianic Jewish movement and be seen as a Jew even if I can't prove it ancestrally? I don't want to be considered a convert and not an Israelite, I truly believe if not know entirely that I'm a lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Read Romans 11

 

[gadar perets]

So keeping the law of the Sabbath, what happens to those who believe Jesus Christ is their "rest", are they wrong?

No, they are not wrong. Yeshua is our spiritual rest, but he is not our physical rest. We must still sleep so our bodies can rest and recover daily. We must still rest every Sabbath Day so we can receive that rest as well.

What of those who are not Jewish, should they adhere to all feast/holidays (for example: Yom Kippur & Passover)?

Absolutely!. They are all shadows of things TO COME. A shadow cannot be fulfilled until the reality comes. Yeshua was the reality of the Passover lamb and the Yom Kippurim goats, so we need not sacrifice a lamb every Passover or goats every Yom Kippurim. Yeshua did not fulfill Yom Teruah or Sukkot. Nor has the latter rain on Shavuot been fulfilled. Neither the anti-typical Jubilee trumpet on Yom Kippurim.

Why did Christ come if his only purpose was to say follow the law and if you don't that's why I died so you could repent? Then it would seem Jesus was sent only for the Jews, what about everyone else? I suppose if I were Jewish or a Messianic Jew then I could understand better? Are we only to follow the 10 commandments or all of God's laws? Since a large segment of the Christian population doesn't adhere to the Sabbath (Saturday), are they damned? I guess it's not for you to judge but I choose to believe that Jesus came to give peace and spread the good news that he is our saviour not just to the Law but also to the lost.

He came to save sinners (those who broke Yahweh's laws - everyone). He didn't come to forgive us of our adulteries, thefts, Sabbath breaking, idolatry, eating pig, etc., just so we would be free to break those same laws after salvation.

We are to obey every law that is applicable to us. If we don't, we will not be damned, but we will lose Kingdom rewards and the blessings associated with obedience.

Yes, Yeshua came to give us peace and to be our Savior, but to save us from what? Sin and death. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). Once he saves us through our faith in him, we must go and sin no more (go and break the law no more). That is how we show our Heavenly Father that we love Him (1 John 5:3). That is how we show our neighbors that we love them.

 

[Open Heart]

My first question is, is it possible to join the Messianic Jewish movement and be seen as a Jew even if I can't prove it ancestrally?

There are lots of Messianic Gentiles within MJ, and you would not be second class. To be considered a Jew in the Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations (UMJC) you must be of matrilineal Jewish descent or have a Jewish father AND have been raised Jewish. Also in the UMJC there is the option to convert to MJ (which is different from belonging to a MJ synagogue) which is considered to change you from Gentile to Jew. It involves considerable study of Jewish Law, History, Culture, and Hebrew, and you have to go before a Beit Din.

 

[Open Heart]

This was a long while ago, I'm more mature in my faith walk and am no longer seeking guidance in this area... don't know why old threads are being resurrected...

Oh. Forget my previous post.

 

[visionary]

There are lots of Messianic Gentiles within MJ, and you would not be second class. To be considered a Jew in the Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations (UMJC) you must be of matrilineal Jewish descent or have a Jewish father AND have been raised Jewish. Also in the UMJC there is the option to convert to MJ (which is different from belonging to a MJ synagogue) which is considered to change you from Gentile to Jew. It involves considerable study of Jewish Law, History, Culture, and Hebrew, and you have to go before a Beit Din.

Fortunately local MJ synagogues are mostly made up of the wide variety of believers who have come together to worship God Yeshua style.