A Conversation with Eugene Peterson: translator of "The Message" Bible

[imperfectchristian]

This is an intriguing interview.

Very enjoyable and thought provoking.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaaIui7cESs

 

[jeolmstead]

can't see it at work....

 

[nephilimiyr]

I don't have time right now but this will be good!

 

[imperfectchristian]

can't see it at work....

Sorry John...seems like I have a habit of doing that to you. You will enjoy it when you get home though.

 

[imperfectchristian]

I grew up in a KJV only church. The past couple of years I have explored different translations and I was convinced that a literal translation would be the most preferred translation.

The reason I came to this conclusion was because of the dogmatic stance and approach to Scripture that almost all Evangelicals and Pentecostals take.

I ended up buying a copy of "The Message" Bible that was on clearance and to my shock and pleasant suprise, it has been positively delightful.

It is now one of my top 3 favorite translations and along with the ESV (which has that Old English poetic feel that I grew up with that I love, without the diffultly in understanding) The message is usually the one I prefer to read out of because it gives Scripture such a freshness.

It really does have an immersive, story like quality to it.

Since diving into reading "The Message" Bible, I have changed my mind on the preference for literal translation, providing it is written with the class, quality and freedom of expressiveness that the message is written with.

I am thankful, because it has really helped me to shed the bonds of dogmatic interpretation of Scripture, fear, condemnation, a judgmental mentality and begin to truly explore my relationship with God and with others.

 

[He put me back together]

("Translator" isn't the appropriate word.)

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Chrisitans enter into GOD'S STORIES - HIS WORD. That is not what Peterson does. He translates God's Word in the eyes of the dialectic. He speaks the dialectic language, and slowly leaves Jesus Christ out of the center of topic. That's how Satan came to Eve to deceive. His whole video is HUMANISM.

Peterson mentions in this video:
1. Imagination conversion? HUMANISM - that which feeds the flesh - just like how Satan deceived Eve.

2. Learn how to read a story? He says that because most stories are of the dialectic structure language.

3. French revolution? That is of the Dialectic Process.
"Did you know contemporary education is built on the dialectic, [which is] the foundation of the French Revolution." - Dean Gotcher
http://www.womensgroup.org/998NEWLT.html

_______________
In an interview:
Joan Veon: Dean, you have been going around the country talking about a process which all Americans need to understand. Could you first tell me a little bit about your background and how you stumbled into what you're doing now?


Dean Gotcher: Well, I went to college at Christian College to earn a teacher's degree, not knowing that I was going to be trained in the dialectic process. I was thought I was going to have a traditional education, but in the late 60s there was big movement with Maslow and Rogers and others to move education to the Transformational Dialectic Structure. So, by my senior year I realized that I had to either return to my faith, or go with the process. (Abraham Maslow is the creator of "Maslow's Hierarchy" which I remember from Psychology 101. Maslow was pro-UN, a World Federalist, a one worlder as he believed the world would not be at peace until nations give up their sovereignty.)


I made that decision to go with the Word of God which meant I not only had to repent of my sin and my rebellion, which is a process I thought had justified for me, but I also had to repent on my teacher training. I then realized I couldn't teach, I was damaged goods and so I went off to seminary thinking that I would get my head straightened out and my relationship with the Lord was restored. I enjoyed the Greek New Testament. but then we got into higher thinking skills. I studied men like Roff (?) and Wellhousen--intelligent men who decided the Word of God was the result of the dialectic process. Wellhousen's dying words were "I've lost my faith." So, I realized that ministry was going the way of the Dialectic and I didn't want to be a part of it. I left, went into construction, and raised my family for several years. I ended up going back to the University where I focused on European history and philosophy. I had one professor who earned his doctorate on how the youth in Germany were restructured for Hitler's purposes. From him I took every Russian, German, European history class I could. Then I took several classes from a professor that had earned his doctor's degree on the French Revolution. Did you know contemporary education is built on the dialectic, [which is] the foundation of the French Revolution. Then I took a law class when at Oral Roberts University where John Whitehead taught a constitutional class. We went through 1600 pages of Supreme Court decisions which helped me to understand the foundation our nation was built on. Another class was from a professor who had earned his doctor's degree from Harvard. We studied the Politburo System in Communist Yugoslavia.

It was not until educational reform came to Oklahoma ten years ago that I realized these classes were not in vain. I saw everything that I was trained in happening before my eyes!

I went back to the university and have read over 600 social psychology books in five years trying to find out for myself what kind of procedure was being used to change our kids and how it was being applied. I reintroduce myself to the dialectic process and its application. Since then I've been crossing the country, explaining the procedure of behavior change, how it's done in the classroom, the workplace, and the political realm including transformational outcome based education, total quality management, and school to work."
http://www.womensgroup.org/998NEWLT.html

4. Lucky - a Biblical Sound to it?
5. Reading is NOT the most difficult thing to do - that is a lie!
6. Sanctified Imagination? *sigh*
7. Peterson is using God in his own terms - that's how man is re-defining God. Peterson is rejecting God for what's useful to him.
8. "Tell me about the god you hate, because I probably hate him too? <-------That is what Rick Warren says as well.
9. In the cookbook section; <------So The Bible, isn't Serious Writtings?
10. Work of the Imagination, is the Holy Spirit! <-----BLASPHEMY!! a. an act of cursing or reviling God.

Be blessed in reading this article:
What kind of message is The Message?
http://www.crossroad.to/Bible_studies/Message.html

 

[jeolmstead]

I grew up in a KJV only church. The past couple of years I have explored different translations and I was convinced that a literal translation would be the most preferred translation.

The reason I came to this conclusion was because of the dogmatic stance and approach to Scripture that almost all Evangelicals and Pentecostals take.

I ended up buying a copy of "The Message" Bible that was on clearance and to my shock and pleasant suprise, it has been positively delightful.

It is now one of my top 3 favorite translations and along with the ESV (which has that Old English poetic feel that I grew up with that I love, without the diffultly in understanding) The message is usually the one I prefer to read out of because it gives Scripture such a freshness.

It really does have an immersive, story like quality to it.

Since diving into reading "The Message" Bible, I have changed my mind on the preference for literal translation, providing it is written with the class, quality and freedom of expressiveness that the message is written with.

I am thankful, because it has really helped me to shed the bonds of dogmatic interpretation of Scripture, fear, condemnation, a judgmental mentality and begin to truly explore my relationship with God and with others.

I’ve warmed up to it…..

I would not want it to be my only copy, but, It does give me a fresh outlook on things.

I really enjoyed Romans from it.


John O.

 

[irenemcg]

I believe that the Message Bible has it's purpose and may speak to some people who are put off by literal translations, infact some Old Testament passages can come alive in the Message, but I could never throw out the Literal Translations

 

[imperfectchristian]

He speaks the dialectic language, and slowly leaves Jesus Christ out of the center of topic. That's how Satan came to Eve to deceive. His whole video is HUMANISM.

I grew up being taught that every translation except the KJV was a diabolical, premeditated plot to take the diety of Jesus Christ out of Scripture.

I was taught that the KJV was the pure unadulterated Word of God and that everything else was watered down Scripture whose translations were indirectly inspired by Satan himself.

As long as I lived under that cloud of fear and allowed other people to make my decisions about God and Scripture for me instead of reading, researching and deciding for myself, then there was really no escaping this cycle of religious programming, and there was there very little opportunity for me to be open to what the Lord was trying to communicate to me outside the scope of what I was being taught.

We all embrace humanism to varying extents. If you didn't you would never go see a doctor or have a non-spiritually conceptualized idea.

There is nothing evil about being human or human reason.

 

[imperfectchristian]

4. Lucky - a Biblical Sound to it?
5. Reading is NOT the most difficult thing to do - that is a lie!
6. Sanctified Imagination? *sigh*
7. Peterson is using God in his own terms - that's how man is re-defining God. Peterson is rejecting God for what's useful to him.
8. "Tell me about the god you hate, because I probably hate him too? <-------That is what Rick Warren says as well.
9. In the cookbook section; <------So The Bible, isn't Serious Writtings?
10. Work of the Imagination, is the Holy Spirit! <-----BLASPHEMY!! a. an act of cursing or reviling God.

un·rea·son·a·ble (

n-r

z

-n

-b

l)

[SIZE=-1]ADJECTIVE: [/SIZE]

1. Not governed by reason: [SIZE=+0]an unreasonable attitude.[/SIZE]

 

[Elijah2]

The Message is a paraphrased, watered-down, mystical bible that has been &#8220;crafted&#8221; by Eugene Peterson to present the doctrines of mysticism (demons) to the Christian church in order to seduce it into occultism and the New Age Movement. Eugene Peterson has &#8220;exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator&#8221; (Rom. 1:25).

The Message is so full of the new gospels that HIS INSPIRED WORD has been distorted, misrepresented, changed, deleted, and added to. &#8220;The Message&#8221; is so watered-down that any similarity to HIS INSPIRED WORD is purely coincidental. The Message is Eugene Peterson&#8217;s personal interpretation of what the new age emerging church of the &#8220;we are one&#8221; syndrome of mysticism wants!

&#8220;The Message&#8221; has introduced a different gospel message that is unbiblical!

&#8220;The Message&#8221; reflects a New Age influence, and agenda.

&#8220;The Message&#8221; has drawn completely away from the truth of God's word by distorting and spreading &#8220;Deception in the Church&#8221;.

The Modernistic Emerging Church Movement have been bringing Christian doctrines into line with modern secularistic knowledge and concepts of what the world sees the nature of Man and the Universe in which he lives. The Christian doctrine today is being reconstructed into new age thinking, practicality and comfort zone that has mutilated and garbled the authorised version.

Such examples as follows:

The Message turns prophecy of the Church&#8217;s Apostasy into mysticism.

&#8220;But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.&#8221; (2 Tim 3:13)

The Message: &#8220;Unscrupulous con men will continue to exploit the faith. They're as deceived as the people they lead astray. As long as they are out there, THINGS CAN ONLY GET WORSE.&#8221;

The Message rejects sound doctrine and on fables and myths and turns HIS WORD into a &#8220;tickling of itchy ears&#8221; and comfort zones and turning their back on the TRUTH OF HIS WORD.

&#8220;For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.&#8221; (2 Tim. 4:3-4)

The Message: &#8220;You're going to find out that THERE WILL BE TIMES when people will have no stomach for solid teaching, but will fill up on spiritual junk food - CATCHY OPINIONS that tickle their fancy. They'll turn their backs on truth and chase MIRAGES.&#8221;

The Message distorts the &#8220;Principles/Doctrines of Bibliology&#8221; and the &#8220;Inspiration of the Bible&#8221;.

&#8220;For prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.&#8221; (2 Pet. 1:21)

The Message: &#8220;Prophecy resulted when the Holy Spirit prompted men AND WOMEN to speak God's word&#8221;

God inspired &#8220;holy men&#8221;, NOT women to write HIS INSPIRED WORD.

&#8220;All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness&#8221; (2 Tim. 3:16)

The Message: &#8220;EVERY PART OF SCRIPTURE is God-breathed ...&#8221;

His Word is a record of what God thinks and speaks, not of what man thinks and speaks!


Warren Smith said:

"As I read down this same dedication page of The Purpose Driven Life, I was surprised to see that there was another apparent problem. For some reason or another, Rick Warren was quoting Eugene Peterson's The Message, as if it were reliable and authoritative Scripture....

"Anyone reading The Message should be able to quickly see how verses from Scripture often had their otherwise clear meanings obscured, or even altered. Important details were sometimes omitted, while misleading words and phrases were often added. For example, when the disciples asked Jesus about his second coming and the end of the world, His reply in the Bible was very straightforward and clear:
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. (Matthew 24: 4-5)

"Because of that important Scripture, I had been made to realize that Jesus' warning applied to the whole New Age movement that included my wife and me. This particular Scripture helped to save my life. It gave me godly insight into the dynamics of the deception I had been a part of. But not so with Eugene Peterson's paraphrase of this same Scripture.
"It [The Message] fails to communicate what Jesus was really saying. When the disciples asked about Jesus' second coming and the end of the world, Peterson's paraphrase reads as follows:
Jesus said, "Watch out for doomsday deceivers. Many leaders are going to show up with forged identities, claiming, `I am Christ, the Messiah.' They will deceive a lot of people."
"By omitting the warning to let 'no man' deceive you and paraphrasing it with only a general caution about 'doomsday deceivers' and 'leaders with forged identities,' Peterson's paraphrase completely missed exposing all of us who were in the New Age believing we were Christ. It also allowed false Christs, who portray themselves as 'peace loving,' and not as 'doomsday deceivers,' to slip under the scriptural radar. Jesus was not limiting his comments about false Christs to 'doomsday deceivers.' In fact, he wasn't specifying 'doomsday deceivers' at all. His warning was all encompassing. He said, 'Take heed that no man deceive you.' He was warning about anyone who says 'I am Christ.'
My wife and I were not 'doomsday deceivers.' We were not 'leaders with forged identities.' If we had been looking only at Eugene Peterson's paraphrase when we were unbelievers, we would have never seen ourselves and the whole New Age movement in that prophetic passage of Scripture. But thanks to a real Bible, we were clearly shown that we were the subjects of Jesus' warning. Coming into the faith we had learned first-hand how the precision of a properly translated Bible can be the difference between truth and deception."

Comments by Janet Moser:

The basis of this study is the English paraphrased text of the New Testament written by Eugene Peterson called "The Message." Through the use of paraphrase, 'The Message' was 'crafted' to present the doctrines of mysticism to the Christian church in order to seduce believers into the occult and the New Age Movement. Readers who recognize mystical/occult terminology, will definitely get "the message" Mr. Peterson is seeking to convey throughout his version of the Bible.

Be blessed in Jesus Name.

 

[imperfectchristian]

The Message is a paraphrased, watered-down, mystical bible that has been “crafted” by Eugene Peterson to present the doctrines of mysticism (demons) to the Christian church in order to seduce it into occultism and the New Age Movement. Eugene Peterson has “exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator” (Rom. 1:25).

The Message is so full of the new gospels that HIS INSPIRED WORD has been distorted, misrepresented, changed, deleted, and added to. “The Message” is so watered-down that any similarity to HIS INSPIRED WORD is purely coincidental. The Message is Eugene Peterson’s personal interpretation of what the new age emerging church of the “we are one” syndrome of mysticism wants!

“The Message” has introduced a different gospel message that is unbiblical!

“The Message” reflects a New Age influence, and agenda.

“The Message” has drawn completely away from the truth of God's word by distorting and spreading “Deception in the Church”.

The Modernistic Emerging Church Movement have been bringing Christian doctrines into line with modern secularistic knowledge and concepts of what the world sees the nature of Man and the Universe in which he lives. The Christian doctrine today is being reconstructed into new age thinking, practicality and comfort zone that has mutilated and garbled the authorised version.

Such examples as follows:

The Message turns prophecy of the Church’s Apostasy into mysticism.

“But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.” (2 Tim 3:13)

The Message: “Unscrupulous con men will continue to exploit the faith. They're as deceived as the people they lead astray. As long as they are out there, THINGS CAN ONLY GET WORSE.”

The Message rejects sound doctrine and on fables and myths and turns HIS WORD into a “tickling of itchy ears” and comfort zones and turning their back on the TRUTH OF HIS WORD.

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.” (2 Tim. 4:3-4)

The Message: “You're going to find out that THERE WILL BE TIMES when people will have no stomach for solid teaching, but will fill up on spiritual junk food - CATCHY OPINIONS that tickle their fancy. They'll turn their backs on truth and chase MIRAGES.”

The Message distorts the “Principles/Doctrines of Bibliology” and the “Inspiration of the Bible”.

“For prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” (2 Pet. 1:21)

The Message: “Prophecy resulted when the Holy Spirit prompted men AND WOMEN to speak God's word”

God inspired “holy men”, NOT women to write HIS INSPIRED WORD.

“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (2 Tim. 3:16)

The Message: “EVERY PART OF SCRIPTURE is God-breathed ...”

His Word is a record of what God thinks and speaks, not of what man thinks and speaks!


Warren Smith said:

"As I read down this same dedication page of The Purpose Driven Life, I was surprised to see that there was another apparent problem. For some reason or another, Rick Warren was quoting Eugene Peterson's The Message, as if it were reliable and authoritative Scripture....

"Anyone reading The Message should be able to quickly see how verses from Scripture often had their otherwise clear meanings obscured, or even altered. Important details were sometimes omitted, while misleading words and phrases were often added. For example, when the disciples asked Jesus about his second coming and the end of the world, His reply in the Bible was very straightforward and clear:
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. (Matthew 24: 4-5)

"Because of that important Scripture, I had been made to realize that Jesus' warning applied to the whole New Age movement that included my wife and me. This particular Scripture helped to save my life. It gave me godly insight into the dynamics of the deception I had been a part of. But not so with Eugene Peterson's paraphrase of this same Scripture.
"It [The Message] fails to communicate what Jesus was really saying. When the disciples asked about Jesus' second coming and the end of the world, Peterson's paraphrase reads as follows:
Jesus said, "Watch out for doomsday deceivers. Many leaders are going to show up with forged identities, claiming, `I am Christ, the Messiah.' They will deceive a lot of people."
"By omitting the warning to let 'no man' deceive you and paraphrasing it with only a general caution about 'doomsday deceivers' and 'leaders with forged identities,' Peterson's paraphrase completely missed exposing all of us who were in the New Age believing we were Christ. It also allowed false Christs, who portray themselves as 'peace loving,' and not as 'doomsday deceivers,' to slip under the scriptural radar. Jesus was not limiting his comments about false Christs to 'doomsday deceivers.' In fact, he wasn't specifying 'doomsday deceivers' at all. His warning was all encompassing. He said, 'Take heed that no man deceive you.' He was warning about anyone who says 'I am Christ.'
My wife and I were not 'doomsday deceivers.' We were not 'leaders with forged identities.' If we had been looking only at Eugene Peterson's paraphrase when we were unbelievers, we would have never seen ourselves and the whole New Age movement in that prophetic passage of Scripture. But thanks to a real Bible, we were clearly shown that we were the subjects of Jesus' warning. Coming into the faith we had learned first-hand how the precision of a properly translated Bible can be the difference between truth and deception."

Comments by Janet Moser:

The basis of this study is the English paraphrased text of the New Testament written by Eugene Peterson called "The Message." Through the use of paraphrase, 'The Message' was 'crafted' to present the doctrines of mysticism to the Christian church in order to seduce believers into the occult and the New Age Movement. Readers who recognize mystical/occult terminology, will definitely get "the message" Mr. Peterson is seeking to convey throughout his version of the Bible.

Be blessed in Jesus Name.

So let me see if I understand you correctly...throw sound reasoning and intelligent discourse completely out the window and replace it with a motivation of fear and cynicism.


Reminds me of....what did He say....drink my blood and eat my body to inherit eternal life?

 

[Elijah2]

So let me see if I understand you correctly...throw sound reasoning and intelligent discourse completely out the window and replace it with a motivation of fear and cynicism.


Reminds me of....what did He say....drink my blood and eat my body to inherit eternal life?

Is that the only intelligent comment you can make mate?

Do you really want to critique verse by verse of HIS INSIPIRED WORD with this watered-down version of a new age gospel?

It's obvious you didn't even read the few Scriptures I posted above, and I guess if you read The Message's interpretation of the Lord's Prayer, I guess the warning bells of the new age movement and mysticism wouldn't even ring.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Elijah2]

Eugene Peterson has the abysmal brazenness to desecrate His Inspired Word, and what is appalling is that so-called seminary professors are actually endorsing him and his interpretation of what he thinks that His Inspired Word should say.

Just by looking at our precious Lord's Prayer is enough, and then you see this: &#8220;as above, so below&#8221;, which is nothing more than Satanism. After all those of the powers of darkness pray the same prayer.

Be blessed in Jesuss' Name.

 

[ARBITER01]

The last thing I want is someone telling me what they think GOD's word says. I want as close to the Greek that I can possibly get in correct english terms.

I use many different translations when I'm going over a passage, and I have never seen a paraphrase do anything more but provide a misleading over what I'm trying to understand.

We are to give diligence to show ourselves approved and righteously divide the word of GOD, and I really don't see how a non-literal translation would do any good in this regard. It is bad enough to see the imposed doctrinal issues that bible committees throw into our bibles already, I don't need to start accepting personal opinions also.

Sorry, but I work on editing passages in our bibles at times, and it is a lot of hard work to get them correct in English without providing misleading words and personal doctinal viewpoints in the process.

 

[mont974x4]

The Message is no Bible. It is miserable twisting of Scripture that leaves truth at the door.

 

[Elijah2]

This is exactly what The Message is doing to HIS INSPIRED WORD!

Where in the world did HIS INSPIRED WORD says that garbage that I have emphasised below in The Message. And similarity between The Message&#8217;s version of the KJV and NKJV is purely coincidental.

Colossians 2:8-10 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Colossians 2:8-10 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

Colossians 2:8 (The Message)
The Message (MSG)
8-10Watch out for people who try to dazzle you with big words and intellectual double-talk. They want to drag you off into endless arguments that never amount to anything. They spread their ideas through the empty traditions of human beings and the empty superstitions of spirit beings. But that's not the way of Christ. Everything of God gets expressed in him, so you can see and hear him clearly. You don't need a telescope, a microscope, or a horoscope to realize the fullness of Christ, and the emptiness of the universe without him. When you come to him, that fullness comes together for you, too. His power extends over everything.

 

[jeolmstead]

Wow,

I don&#8217;t view The Message any differently then I do any other paraphrase of the scripture. Sometimes it misses a little. Sometimes it misses a lot. Sometimes I see things I&#8217;ve never seen before and God speaks to me through it.

I have several good translations and other paraphrases that I compare against each other. Some are better then others. The Message is just one of several. It does not offend me.

But then, I do not worship the bible. I worship the God it has lead me to and talks about.

I do not consider the bible to be inspired unless God is inspiring it. Otherwise it is the same book that several well known popular cults use.

It is not a book of &#8220;magic words&#8221; to be enchanted over life&#8217;s problems either.

Some have elevated it above the God who inspired it. To them it has become an idol, and, as such it certainly speaks to them and is &#8220;spiritually anointed&#8221; (but that&#8217;s not the Holy Spirit)

To them it&#8217;s like the brass serpent Moses lifted up in the wilderness. It had a purpose too, a Godly and good purpose, but when people started worshiping it instead of God it had to be broken up.

Hey, like I said earlier I would not like it to be my only bible, but I like to look at it from time to time. If something strikes me as radical I check it out against the rest of them.

John O.

 

[mont974x4]

It is not a matter of worshipping the Bible it is a matter of honoring God by staying true to what he has said.


How annoyed do we get when we say something only to have someone else say we said something else? And what we say, is generally of very little importance (especially compared to what God has to say)

Now, how do you think God feels when we twist what He has said, and what He has said concerns mens souls.