A common problem in marriages

mkgal1

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I don't have a citation. It's common knowledge. But I don't have a citation for that either, because that's common knowledge.

I'm sorry if you're dealing with that (that's the reason why you're focused on this....correct? Because it just doesn't make sense to be so concerned about other's marital issues to this extreme). Prayers for you and your wife.
 
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LinkH

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I'm sorry that you're dealing with that (that's the reason why you're focused on this....correct? Because it just doesn't make sense to be so concerned about other's marital issues to this extreme). Prayers for you and your wife.

Mkgal1,
That's a tacky assumption, not something I'd expect of you. No, I'm not going through this, and definitely not today. But I have read enough online posts and interacted with enough people to know that this is a problem in a lot of marriages. Why would you think I wouldn't care about other people's marriages?

I labeled it as I did so as not to put 'sex' in the title.

Btw, I think the video is good even for people that don't have a specific problem with this.
 
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mkgal1

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Mkgal1,
That's a tacky assumption, not something I'd expect of you. No, I'm not going through this, and definitely not today. But I have read enough online posts and interacted with enough people to know that this is a problem in a lot of marriages. Why would you think I wouldn't care about other people's marriages?

I'm not implying that you wouldn't care about other people's marriages--it's the particular focus that I'm noticing. You're the one that titled this, "a common problem in marriage" (not me). When someone gives unsolicited advice about something so uniquely personal and seems to infer that it's something a lot (maybe even most) of people go through (that's the definition of "common", is it not?)---I just find it odd. I don't know what's "tacky" about what I posted (to be honest).

Link said:
I labeled it as I did so as not to put 'sex' in the title.
You do realize that doesn't change the content of the topic.....right?
 
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LinkH

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I'm not implying that you wouldn't care about other people's marriages--it's the particular focus that I'm noticing. You're the one that titled this, "a common problem in marriage" (not me). When someone gives unsolicited advice about something so uniquely personal and seems to infer that it's something a lot (maybe even most) of people go through (that's the definition of "common", is it not?)---I just find it odd. I don't know what's "tacky" about what I posted (to be honest).

Read some other marriage forums on the Internet and you'll find out it's a common problem. We've even had posters facing the same issue over the years. I think we've all heard that the two areas couples argue about the most are money and sex.

If I'd used the same title and the video were about arguing over money, would you assume my wife and I argued over money? It's tacky to assume I've got a problem in my own marriage and publically state it based on what I posted. You started a thread on abuse, and I didn't jump to any conclusions about your marriage based on that. You probably would not have appreciated it if I had.
 
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Breezyberlin

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I'm not implying that you wouldn't care about other people's marriages--it's the particular focus that I'm noticing. You're the one that titled this, "a common problem in marriage" (not me). When someone gives unsolicited advice about something so uniquely personal and seems to infer that it's something a lot (maybe even most) of people go through (that's the definition of "common", is it not?)---I just find it odd. I don't know what's "tacky" about what I posted (to be honest).

I think that it doesn't take too much poking around to realize that this IS a common problem.
If I posted something about dealing with financial stress in marriage, I wonder if people would think it was MY problem, rather than something I have observed is a common problem? And actually... who cares anyway.... lol..... Does it matter very much if this guy thinks it is a common problem and it isn't? I am confused why this is the issue coming up about this point.
 
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mkgal1

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I think that it doesn't take too much poking around to realize that this IS a common problem.

My point wasn't to challenge the idea that it's a common problem. My point was that this is the topic that he posts a lot about--and it's the single laser-focus that has me wondering: why?

Breezyberlin said:
If I posted something about dealing with financial stress in marriage, I wonder if people would think it was MY problem, rather than something I have observed is a common problem?

Again....it's not a one-time thing, it's kind of habitual. If you were habitually posting lectures on how to stop being irresponsible with money? Yes.....you'd get the same reaction from me.
 
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mkgal1

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One more thing (for now): I disagree with her idea of "mutuality". What she's advocating is one-way decisions ("adopt Nike's philosophy and Just Do It"). That's *not* mutuality---that's one person giving in under compulsion.

I'm glad that my husband and I have a policy of mutual agreement (for all decisions). We've been recently going through a remodel and that's been put to use a LOT. What I love is that the outcome has been better than if either of us were solely making the choices (you know the phrase, "two minds are better than one"? It's true).

I just know I wouldn't pay this "counselor" anything if that's her solution for conflict and dissatisfaction. If it were the wife wanting to buy a bigger & more expensive house, and the husband was reluctant and unsure and that had the couple at a standstill (and the wife was feeling rejected and unloved....dismissed)...I doubt she'd say, "Just Do It". But it's the same thing....isn't it? With her reasoning, she's saying the husband is "making the decision unilaterally" by holding them back from buying. Resolving that by expecting him to just give in is not what "two becoming one" means (IMO). There's a step in between---where the two actually listen to one another and arrive at a decision that *only* the two of them can.
 
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LinkH

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My point wasn't to challenge the idea that it's a common problem. My point was that this is the topic that he posts a lot about--and it's the single laser-focus that has me wondering: why?

That's not even true. If there is a thread on it, I post on it. It's possible I started a thread on it or shared a video. I came across this video posted to another forum, listened to it, and thought it was good to share. But I do focus on topics on this forum where it seems to me that some poster's views do not line up with scripture and this is one of them. I have probably posted more on the Duggars, more on divorce, etc. You may recall me posting on it if my views are at odds with yours. It seems like you participate when the topic comes up. As far as my own marriage goes, at certain times, like for way too long after the birth of our first child, it was an issue since it took way to long to get back to normal.

Again....it's not a one-time thing, it's kind of habitual. If you were habitually posting lectures on how to stop being irresponsible with money? Yes.....you'd get the same reaction from me.

If, from time to time, posters defended being irresponsible with money, I might post those lectures. That wouldn't imply that my wife were irresponsible with money. I notice you post on abuse more than some other posters, but it wouldn't be fair to imply that that is something that effects you personally.

If you'll notice, there is a poster on the forum who has a thread up dealing with the same issue discussed in this video.
 
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LinkH

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One more thing (for now): I disagree with her idea of "mutuality". What she's advocating is one-way decisions ("adopt Nike's philosophy and Just Do It". That's *not* mutuality---that's one person giving in under compulsion.

This post illustrates why the problem the speaker in the video addresses is a common problem in marriages. That might work in your own marriage. It might work if both partners are fairly evenly matched and if having sex at a particular time is a 'take it or leave it' kind of thing from the partner who suggests it.

But imagine a marriage where one partner is an energetic athelete with a high sex drive who crave sexual activity 20 times a month. The other partner would be happy with twice a year. What is 'mutuality'-- in terms of sex drive-- for this couple. It's twice a year. That could mean up to 20 times a month, that other partner feels rejected, since there unfulfilled. Twice a year feels like almost never. The lower drive partner gets 100% satisfaction in terms of frequency. The higher drive partner gets less than 1% satisfaction in terms of frequency.

What if that lower drive partner could actually get into it if he or she said 'yes' and was open to being put 'in the mood'? There does not have to be any compulsion either. If the higher drive partner decides he/she would like to have sex, and then lower drive partner decides that he/she would like to have sex to satisfy the other one, that's mutuality.

Since this is Christianforums, we should consider what the Bible has to say. There are lots of warnings against fornication. But the Bible is actually positive toward sexual activity in marriage in a lot of ways. First of all, let's consider what Paul, the apostle, wrote,

I Corinthians 7
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

Reading this, I see that if my wife wants some 'due benevolence' of the variety that staves off fornication, and I'm not 'in the mood', that she has a right to my body for me to give that to her. The same holds in reverse. Actually, Pharisees would have emphasized a woman's right to sex with her husband, but the New Testament teaches it both ways. And this is also a form of 'mutuality' in marriage. It's mutual rights, rather than requiring mutual desire.

But if both spouses take this to heart, sex doesn't have to be 'under compulsion.' The attitude that says, "I'm not in the mood right now, but I'm ready to get warmed up and satisfy my wife/husband because I love him/her and would like to satisfy his/her needs" is not 'compulsion.' I suppose one partner could try to compell the other. But in a lot of cases, that happens because the other partner is not doing right and doesn't have the proper, generous attitude toward sex. Then they can both end up treating each other badly.

In my, admittedly extreme, example of the 20 times a week sex drive athelete and the twice a year partner, how would having sex when they both want it help 'to avoid fornication.' Having the sexual partner satisfy sexual urges helps prevent fornication. Doing so, and also times of prayer and fasting, help prevent temptation due to self-control. That's what other translations say about 'incontinency.' (I don't think wearing Depends is a typical temptation.)

The Bible also encourages sexual affection in marriage. This is just Proverbs, not even the Song of Solomon.

Proverbs 5,
18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.
19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.
20 And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman, and embrace the bosom of a stranger?

I just know I wouldn't pay this "counselor" anything if that's her solution for conflict and dissatisfaction. If it were the wife wanting to buy a bigger & more expensive house, and the husband was reluctant and unsure and that had the couple at a standstill (and the wife was feeling rejected and unloved....dismissed)...I doubt she'd say, "Just Do It". But it's the same thing....isn't it?

Let me think. Is buying a $300,000 home the same thing as having sex? No. One costs $300,000 and the other costs just a little time and effort. (It could cost a child, or up to $2 in birth control, but still not the same thing.) Moving house can take weeks or months of effort and near-sleepless nights. If having sex is as tiresome as moving house, someone may be doing it wrong. :)

With her reasoning, she's saying the husband is "making the decision unilaterally" by holding them back from buying. Resolving that by expecting him to just give in is not what "two becoming one" means (IMO). There's a step in between---where the two actually listen to one another and arrive at a decision that *only* the two of them can.

No one is suggesting that one partner have a grudging attitude toward sex. She's suggesting that a lower-drive spouse be willing to be put in the mood and not draw a line in the sand and say 'no.' That's not against mutual decision making. Mutual decision making is implied in her speech from the very beginning where she says that the low drive spouse determines how often they have sex. She's teaching generosity rather than drawing a hard line in the sand and saying 'no.' She's suggesting having sex to meet one's partner's needs and not just one's own.
 
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tall73

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I mean... not to beat a dead horse... but... why would this be a Ted X talk if it weren't a common topic? LOL.

You have stumbled into a hot button issue here.

Some here think that if there are different drives it is ok for one spouse to agree to sex, even if they are not initially "in the mood" because they often get in the mood as things get going.

Others say that is coercion, or force, or some call it just rape.

It is alright, Link won't get scared off. He has been here quite a while and knows how it goes. In the other thread you mentioned this is an issue you face in your marriage. Just weigh what everyone says here and make your own decision.

There are also previous discussions on the topic, and on some of the Scriptures involved if you want to search around for them.

And as LinkH alluded to, not only is the topic important enough for a Ted talk, but also for Paul to reference sexual frequency and meeting of mutual needs in I Corinthians 7.
 
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tall73

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My point wasn't to challenge the idea that it's a common problem. My point was that this is the topic that he posts a lot about--and it's the single laser-focus that has me wondering: why?


There can be a number of reasons. I first took an interest in the topic not out of any personal reasons but because of beliefs in my previous denomination which actively preached against frequent married (or unmarried) sex.

As a pastor in that denomination until I left after being unable to reconcile a number of theological issues, it was something I saw impacting families in a harmful way. They were either avoiding sexual relations with their spouse, or wondered if they were wrong for not doing so.

I intentionally taught on the Scriptures (giving fair warning of the topic in advance) so that they would know what the Bible said, and that it does encourage sex with your spouse.

Depending on what tradition folks come from it can be a theological issue rather than just a personal one.

Now Link has no obligation to give a defense of his interest in the topic. However, if I recall he posts in the Charismatic section. Link seems pretty balanced on his Scriptural discussions. However, I have talked to folks in some charismatic churches that faced a similar teaching to what my old denomination dealt with. I am sure it happens in a number of church settings.

Also, if he is a church leader, he has had to deal with it. You can't be a pastor or elder for too long without dealing with difficult issues that couples bring to you. And many marital problems can also lead to sexual issues, which can sometimes be the thing they mention first (though other issues may be behind it)

You may refer them to a counselor, or depending on the situation discuss them directly, but you still know at that point it is an issue. And the more often it happens, the more common you know it is in the church, and in society.
 
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mkgal1

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Link said:
But I do focus on topics on this forum where it seems to me that some poster's views do not line up with scripture and this is one of them
That's the focus I mean (and it's not overlooked that by "some posters" that means female posters).
 
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LinkH

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That's the focus I mean (and it's not overlooked that by "some posters" that means female posters).

That's certainly not what I had in mind, women that is. I've seen post from men and women that I think are really on target, and posts from men and women on the forum that I think are way off.

Right now, we have a post on the forum from a man whose wife wants more sex than he does and from a woman whose husband does not want to have sex as much as she does.
 
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LinkH

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Now Link has no obligation to give a defense of his interest in the topic. However, if I recall he posts in the Charismatic section. Link seems pretty balanced on his Scriptural discussions.

I grew up in the Pentecostal movement. I can't remember a Pentecostal or Charismatic preacher that I heard who taught against satisfying one's sexual needs. But I've rarely heard the topic taught on in those churches.

Nowadays, some preachers put a bed up on the stage and talk about these topics, and critics decry it. I think there is a place for teaching on this topic. There are high divorce rates in the US and other countries. I do believe these topics should be addressed in church, that children should know not to have sex outside of marriage, and that when they grow up, if they choose to marry, they should meet their spouses' needs.

God had Moses read the Laws about circumcision, menstruation, incest, homosexuality, inappropriate behavior with animals, etc. to the babies, little children, teens, young people, middle aged people, and elderly people of both genders.
 
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