A christian commits suicide?

[Received]

Yes suicide is a forgivable sin. Yes people who are Christian commit suicide. No it isn't always a matter of poor assertion of will, of "not trying hard enough," etc. The primary reason for suicide is depression (although anxiety and other disorders can play a role), and according to the work of suicidiologist Thomas Joiner, the research supports three criteria for increasing the risk for suicide: alienation, perceived burdensomeness (which is why the elderly are at the highest risk for suicide as a cohort), and habituation to pain (i.e., being in psychic pain for a long time). All three of these are complicated and rarely, if ever, created by the depressed person herself.

And let's look at the incidental feminine pronoun, herself, a little closer, because although women significantly outnumber men in terms of suicide attempts, men are still more successful at completing suicide. Why? Because men usually use guns.

Let's think of about this for a second. God is going to send someone to Hell because the state didn't restrict gun accessibility.

 

[KawaiiChristianGal]

There is only one sin that is not forgiven and that's the unpardonable sin. So suicide although it's a sin can be forgiven. God knows the heart some individuals who commit suicide don't know any better... I lost my mother to suicide and I know without a shadow of a doubt that she was saved. Sadly her mind just snapped.

 

[grammieann]

As a suicide survivor, this is an issue I've thought about a lot. I do believe that despair is a sin and that suicide can be an act of rebellion. However, I also believe there are cases when a person is literally not in his right mind. I trust in God's justice, and in His mercy, to deal with each case as He sees fit.

 

[Aldebaran]

As a suicide survivor, this is an issue I've thought about a lot. I do believe that despair is a sin and that suicide can be an act of rebellion. However, I also believe there are cases when a person is literally not in his right mind. I trust in God's justice, and in His mercy, to deal with each case as He sees fit.

I can attest to that. Earlier in this thread, I was writing about the fact that I had been considering it lately. Now I look back and wonder what I was thinking! I'm sure it was the prayers of many here that most likely helped me though what it was I was dealing with, and I am forever grateful for that! But it sure does seem like I was not in my right mind at all. It sure felt like I was though, because I thought I was thinking about it pretty rationally at the time.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Another thing to consider , and to seek YHWH'S KINGDOM, and to keep seeking always;
is that in the NEW TESTAMENT, there's no depressed ecclesia, even though they are told by their MESSIAH our SAVIOR that HE is sending them out as tasty sheep into the midst of ravenous wolves;
and many of them were devoured by lions, beheaded, beaten, arrested, imprisoned, and saw their own sons and daughters and husbands and wives slaughtered; (same as in china and africa recently);
and they , like Stephen, were still FULL OF JOY in MESSIAH Y'SHUA....
the narrow road...

 

[Aldebaran]

Another thing to consider , and to seek YHWH'S KINGDOM, and to keep seeking always;
is that in the NEW TESTAMENT, there's no depressed ecclesia, even though they are told by their MESSIAH our SAVIOR that HE is sending them out as tasty sheep into the midst of ravenous wolves;
and many of them were devoured by lions, beheaded, beaten, arrested, imprisoned, and saw their own sons and daughters and husbands and wives slaughtered; (same as in china and africa recently);
and they , like Stephen, were still FULL OF JOY in MESSIAH Y'SHUA....
the narrow road...

New Testament or Old, it still happened. Elijah was feeling dispair when he thought death would be better for him than life when he felt he was all alone.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

when he felt he was all alone.

Just like many many today who cannot(or have not yet been able to) find a NEW TESTAMENT TYPE assembly of 2 or more.

 

[Aldebaran]

Just like many many today who cannot(or have not yet been able to) find a NEW TESTAMENT TYPE assembly of 2 or more.

I think people can despair even if they find a church of 50 or more.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I think people can despair even if they find a church of 50 or more.

That's true - and they do. And some of them / many ? / post on this forum. And some to many who despair do not go back to a church like that.

 

[sdowney717]

New Testament or Old, it still happened. Elijah was feeling dispair when he thought death would be better for him than life when he felt he was all alone.

He wanted God to take his life,
Which actually God did take him, but not yet, he still had some work to do.
The point is to trust God to take us at a time of his choosing for us, not out choosing for ourselves.

King Saul whom God had rejected, suicided.

1 Samuel 31:4
Then Saul said to his armorbearer, “Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it, lest these uncircumcised men come and thrust me through and abuse me.” But his armorbearer would not, for he was greatly afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword and fell on it.

1 Samuel 31:5
And when his armorbearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell on his sword, and died with him.

 

[smithed64]

New Testament or Old, it still happened. Elijah was feeling dispair when he thought death would be better for him than life when he felt he was all alone.

Yeah, and then what did God do, He put him on a mission. To show His faith in God, to go and anoint those that believed in God.

As a child of God, we are to place our trust in Christ. All of our trust. Even the person who posted about being hospitalized. He shows His faith and Trust in Christ. Christ is the answer to our troubles. He is the one that fought the war and won. Yeah, we have battles and we are tried. But the wicked will be judged by God and answer to their sins.
We are protected by God, yeah, we go thru hard times. But not so hard that we have to take our own lives.

Those who commit suicide hate themselves and their situations. They let the depression upon them take control and they look at it instead of God.
The bible clearly tells us that if a man hate his brother he is a murderer at heart and there is not eternal life in him at all. We are to love our brother as we love ourselves. So if you hate your brother, you hate yourself also.

So, according to the scriptures. Murder is a sin, God hates sin. And He will judge justly on that sin.

I would say that if someone who claims Christian and commits suicide, wasn't save in the first place. Because He/she placed her trust in themselves and not Christ. They depended on themselves and some others to solve their problem. Instead of Trusting God, to do as He said He would do.

Suicide is a permanent solution to usually a temporary problem.

Repent, place your complete trust in Christ. Even those who have depression live for Christ, Spurgeon had it, and many others have it also. And they still place their trust in Christ.

 

[ToBeLoved]

As a suicide survivor, this is an issue I've thought about a lot. I do believe that despair is a sin and that suicide can be an act of rebellion. However, I also believe there are cases when a person is literally not in his right mind. I trust in God's justice, and in His mercy, to deal with each case as He sees fit.

That is why Jesus Christ is the only righteous judge, because only He knows the heart of a man.

Welcome to CF by the way.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I would say that if someone who claims Christian and commits suicide, wasn't save in the first place. Because He/she placed her trust in themselves and not Christ. They depended on themselves and some others to solve their problem. Instead of Trusting God, to do as He said He would do.

Suicide is a permanent solution to usually a temporary problem.

Repent, place your complete trust in Christ. Even those who have depression live for Christ, Spurgeon had it, and many others have it also. And they still place their trust in Christ.

First, if you do not think that almost every person alive does not regularly put trust in themselves than you do not understand our human, sin nature, because we all do it. This is not specific to someone who commits suicide.

So we are all in very deep trouble then.

Second, it is a very easy out to a hard question to say that it is because someone was not saved in the first place. This is Biblical Christianity's easy out for any situation they do not understand and do not want to take the time to hear what God's Word says.

Christians are so out of touch with any and every thing that has to do with mental illness. It is laughable that anyone with mental illness fellowships with the body of Christ because there is so much judgement, prime example is above.

 

[smithed64]

First, if you do not think that almost every person alive does not regularly put trust in themselves than you do not understand our human, sin nature, because we all do it. This is not specific to someone who commits suicide.

Of course I know this. This is why we fail. This is why we sin. We place our trust in our fallible, fallen self and the outcome is falliable, fallen sin. The Bible clearly tells us this. That no one is righteous, not one. No one is good, except God. It tells us that the way of man thinks is that he is always right, when in truth the ways of man is death.
And it is specific for those who commit suicide, it's a selfish act. Whatever the problem is...it's all about you..it's all about how you can't handle it...on how life is hard..or how you can't get what you want...or that everything is bad and this world would be better off without you....or I'll get them they'll feel bad, now that I'm gone.
I do know. I almost committed suicide. I had a few of those thoughts and a few others. I claimed to be a Holy Ghost filled child of God and thought those things. I was lying to myself and to others. I wasn't saved by any means. Because I was selfish, self centered and cared for no one but myself.
But God did save me. He reminded me of His love. He reminded me that I've been placing everything on myself. And that I wasn't suppose to do that. It's not my place to worry about things, because We have a savior. We are Victorious thru Christ. He has won the war. And He will be there for the little battles that we go thru.

So we are all in very deep trouble then.

If you place your trust into fallen man and not Christ...yes you are.

Second, it is a very easy out to a hard question to say that it is because someone was not saved in the first place. This is Biblical Christianity's easy out for any situation they do not understand and do not want to take the time to hear what God's Word says.

God word says....thou shalt not kill.
it says if you hate your brother you are a murderer and there is no eternal life within you.
It says come to me all ye who are heavy burden
It says never fear
It says don't fear those who can harm you and your body, but to fear the one who can send your soul to hell.

I know what the bible says. And its no excuse.

God says everything He does for us is for our good.

If you claim to be a Christian and commit suicide, please tell me what good comes out of it. Nothing. It cause strife, anger, self doubt, confusion, more suicides, and a host of other things that are not Godly nor Holy at all. Been there, it isn't nice at all, nor is it Godly.

Christians are so out of touch with any and every thing that has to do with mental illness. It is laughable that anyone with mental illness fellowships with the body of Christ because there is so much judgement, prime example is above.

Well, we aren't discussing mental illness. We are discussing those who claim to be Christian and commit suicide. I do know a few who have depression and serve God, quite rightly. And when they go thru those hard times, they place their trust in Him.

So you know all Christians then?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Of course I know this. This is why we fail. This is why we sin. We place our trust in our fallible, fallen self and the outcome is falliable, fallen sin. The Bible clearly tells us this. That no one is righteous, not one. No one is good, except God. It tells us that the way of man thinks is that he is always right, when in truth the ways of man is death.
And it is specific for those who commit suicide, it's a selfish act. Whatever the problem is...it's all about you..it's all about how you can't handle it...on how life is hard..or how you can't get what you want...or that everything is bad and this world would be better off without you....or I'll get them they'll feel bad, now that I'm gone.
I do know. I almost committed suicide. I had a few of those thoughts and a few others. I claimed to be a Holy Ghost filled child of God and thought those things. I was lying to myself and to others. I wasn't saved by any means. Because I was selfish, self centered and cared for no one but myself.
But God did save me. He reminded me of His love. He reminded me that I've been placing everything on myself. And that I wasn't suppose to do that. It's not my place to worry about things, because We have a savior. We are Victorious thru Christ. He has won the war. And He will be there for the little battles that we go thru.
?

So in your understanding someone who is self-centered is not saved?

I hate to break it to you, but we are all still very self centered and do not love others as we love ourselves.

So maybe you think God did not save you the first time around, but it is not because you are still self centered, because we remain self centered throughout our human lives. Being self centered cannot overpower the mercy of God.

Not sure where you got that idea from.

 

[smithed64]

So in your understanding someone who is self-centered is not saved?

I hate to break it to you, but we are all still very self centered and do not love others as we love ourselves.

So maybe you think God did not save you the first time around, but it is not because you are still self centered, because we remain self centered throughout our human lives. Being self centered cannot overpower the mercy of God.

Not sure where you got that idea from.

I get it from Here.


2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

And there is a few more that show. We are naturally selfish and sinful.

If we are selfish, then we live I the flesh and not in the spirit.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Grant it, Those who are Born Again are sinners saved by grace and still live in this fallen world,we're still human and yes, do make mistakes and find ourselves thinking of only ourselves. But not to the point of suicide. Because God never tempts us. And when the temptation comes. He always makes a way out. If you are Born Again, you know through God's Word, that His promises are kept. We may not like the answer sometimes. But it is for our good. But suicide, isn't an answer.

 

[ToBeLoved]

And it is specific for those who commit suicide, it's a selfish act. Whatever the problem is...it's all about you..it's all about how you can't handle it...on how life is hard..or how you can't get what you want...or that everything is bad and this world would be better off without you....or I'll get them they'll feel bad, now that I'm gone.
I do know. I almost committed suicide. I had a few of those thoughts and a few others. I claimed to be a Holy Ghost filled child of God and thought those things. I was lying to myself and to others. I wasn't saved by any means. Because I was selfish, self centered and cared for no one but myself.

That has never stopped God from loving a sinner yet. Selfishness. Being sinful is inherent to who we are. We are born with it, so I'm not sure what you are saying.

One turns from self love to love of God and others in Christ. We are all the same when we are not saved. Maybe each of us has our own very selfish tendencies toward specific sins but we all have them.

Also, most of the people that commit suicide have mental illness. If you've never lived with it, you should not speak on it.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I get it from Here.


2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

And there is a few more that show. We are naturally selfish and sinful.

If we are selfish, then we live I the flesh and not in the spirit.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Grant it, Those who are Born Again are sinners saved by grace and still live in this fallen world,we're still human and yes, do make mistakes and find ourselves thinking of only ourselves. But not to the point of suicide. Because God never tempts us. And when the temptation comes. He always makes a way out. If you are Born Again, you know through God's Word, that His promises are kept. We may not like the answer sometimes. But it is for our good. But suicide, isn't an answer.

I'm not understanding how this text doesn't completely make my point.

If you have no idea what mental illness is it is something wrong in your brain. That someone is not getting certain endorphins or other things their body needs that are not being made by their body.

To call it a temptation put forth from God shows how uneducated you are in that it is a HEALTH issue. Like a diabetic does not have enough sugar in their body.

I find it offensive that you speak of such things without any knowledge of it or what people go through.

 

[smithed64]

That has never stopped God from loving a sinner yet. Selfishness. Being sinful is inherent to who we are. We are born with it, so I'm not sure what you are saying.

One turns from self love to love of God and others in Christ. We are all the same when we are not saved. Maybe each of us has our own very selfish tendencies toward specific sins but we all have them.

Also, most of the people that commit suicide have mental illness. If you've never lived with it, you should not speak on it.

I have had a friend commit suicide. And I almost committed suicide. So I do know exactly what I'm talking about. I agree that there is some mental problem, usually depression. In my case it was depression. God pulled me out of it.
My friend, it was over a girl. So you could say it was depression. But God still could have helped Him if He would have trusted Him.

But God is the cure for depression.

God doesn't love the sinner. He loves His creation, yes. But not the sinner.
Does God hate anyone? The answer is yes.

• Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
• Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."
• Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."
• Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."
• Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."

He does not punish sin. He punishes the sinner. Sin cannot be tied up and thrown into a fire. It cannot be put in a box or glued to a stick. It is rebellion. It is rebellion in the heart. It is breaking God's Law. Sin occurs inside the heart and mind of people. Therefore, God must punish the sinner. Why? Because He is both Holy and Just and the person who sins offends God. God's Holy and Just character will not allow Him to ignore this offense.

 

[smithed64]

I'm not understanding how this text doesn't completely make my point.

If you have no idea what mental illness is it is something wrong in your brain. That someone is not getting certain endorphins or other things their body needs that are not being made by their body.

To call it a temptation put forth from God shows how uneducated you are in that it is a HEALTH issue. Like a diabetic does not have enough sugar in their body.

I find it offensive that you speak of such things without any knowledge of it or what people go through.

I'm not a professional, so I don't have all the information for mental illness. I know about depression and anxiety, because I have experienced them. I'm honest enough not to get into specifics about all mental illness.

I didn't say it was a temptation from God.
Diabetes's isn't not enough sugar in the body. It's not the right amount of Insulin in the body to get rid of the sugars the body creates. My brother was a diabetic. I know all about it.

If your offended. You need to take that to God. He's the one that said, thou shalt not kill...He's the one that said, if you hate your brother you are a murder and have no eternal life you in you at all....He said that no one is good, not one.....He said that none were righteous, no not one.....He said these things. Not me. So, your offense is not with me. But God.