Gabriel Anton
Exitus Acta Probat Acta Non Verba Deus Vult 11:18
You're Welcome. God Bless you too, Jason, 007+40, of His Majesty's Secret Service.
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A christian commits suicide?
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You're Welcome. God Bless you too, Jason, 007+40, of His Majesty's Secret Service.
Gabriel Anton
Exitus Acta Probat Acta Non Verba Deus Vult 11:18
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<staff edit>
No doubt you have gotten this false uderstanding from not correctly interpreting Romans 3. However, Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 is not saying that all people are sinners 24/7 or that they are sinners on a daily basis. That is not what these verses say. For if you were to propose that is what they are saying, then you must also believe that Romans 3:11 teaches that nobody (including believers) have no understanding and do not seek after God.
Surely you are not proposing that you and other believers do not have any understanding and do not seek after God, right?
In other words, Romans 3 is talking about how everyone has sinned at one point in their life as unbelievers. Romans 3 is not talking to the faithful saint who obeys Jesus Christ. For if that were true, then Enoch surely could not have been translated. Nor could Abraham have pleased God with his righteous actions in offering up his only son.
<staff edit>
First, nowhere will you see Jesus and or his followers teach that they could sin and still be saved by merely having a belief on Jesus alone. Jesus said if you look upon a woman in lust your whole body could be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). John says if you hate your brother you are like a murderer and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). Paul essentially says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). To tie into what Paul says here. James says, God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6). Such teachings would not be in the New Testament if you are claiming that OSAS or a mere belief alone on Jesus for your forgiveness (with no works and no holiness within your faith) was true.
Second, the Bible does say we can be sin free and or perfect. Jesus says be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48). The Heavenly Father is perfect because He is holy and sinless. Hence, why Jesus made the comparison. Jesus also told two people to, "sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11). In fact, Jesus said to the man he healed that if he were to sin again, a worse thing would come upon him (John 5:14). In other words, if what you say is true, then Jesus would have been lying to this poor man and or playing a cruel joke on him. Also, Jesus tells his disciples to pray so as not to be led into temptation (Matthew 26:41). What would be the purpose so as to make this kind of prayer if one was just always going to be sinning all the time?
Also, 1 Peter 4:1 says he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased (stopped) from sin. Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Romans 8:4-5 says,
4 "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit."
How can one fulfill the righteousness of the Law if one is walking after the flesh or if one is sinning all the time? This verse says we can fulfill the righteousness of the Law if we walk after the Spirit.
Now, do not misunderstand me here. This is not talking about the Law of Moses but the righteousness of the Law under the New Covenant (i.e. those Commands given to us under the New Testament). No man is justified by keeping the Old Law anymore because Christ's death brought in a New Covenant with new rules or Commands (that supercedes the Old). For the Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12).
Actually, John says, "He that committeth sin is of the devil" (1 John 3:8). John also says, "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20). Paul says, "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Romans 6:16). Paul also says, "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate" (Titus 1:16). Paul says, "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:22). Who was cut off before? The Jews. This means we Gentiles can be cut off just like they were cut off, too.
<staff edit>
Actually, the reverse is true.
Self professing Christians have committed suicide as a result of OSAS or a sin and still be saved type doctrine.
Suicide & OSAS:
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.
Murder, Suicide, & OSAS:
George Sodini.
The Bible does not ever speak once positively about suicide, and nor does it give us a hint that a person could be in Heaven if they were to commit such a detestable sin. Suicide is in essence self murder. 1 John 3:15 says no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. God says he will destroy those who defile his temple (1 Corinthians 3:17).
....
No doubt you have gotten this false uderstanding from not correctly interpreting Romans 3. However, Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 is not saying that all people are sinners 24/7 or that they are sinners on a daily basis. That is not what these verses say. For if you were to propose that is what they are saying, then you must also believe that Romans 3:11 teaches that nobody (including believers) have no understanding and do not seek after God.
"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God" (Romans 3:11).
Surely you are not proposing that you and other believers do not have any understanding and do not seek after God, right?
In other words, Romans 3 is talking about how everyone has sinned at one point in their life as unbelievers. Romans 3 is not talking to the faithful saint who obeys Jesus Christ. For if that were true, then Enoch surely could not have been translated. Nor could Abraham have pleased God with his righteous actions in offering up his only son.
<staff edit>
First, nowhere will you see Jesus and or his followers teach that they could sin and still be saved by merely having a belief on Jesus alone. Jesus said if you look upon a woman in lust your whole body could be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). John says if you hate your brother you are like a murderer and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). Paul essentially says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). To tie into what Paul says here. James says, God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6). Such teachings would not be in the New Testament if you are claiming that OSAS or a mere belief alone on Jesus for your forgiveness (with no works and no holiness within your faith) was true.
Second, the Bible does say we can be sin free and or perfect. Jesus says be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48). The Heavenly Father is perfect because He is holy and sinless. Hence, why Jesus made the comparison. Jesus also told two people to, "sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11). In fact, Jesus said to the man he healed that if he were to sin again, a worse thing would come upon him (John 5:14). In other words, if what you say is true, then Jesus would have been lying to this poor man and or playing a cruel joke on him. Also, Jesus tells his disciples to pray so as not to be led into temptation (Matthew 26:41). What would be the purpose so as to make this kind of prayer if one was just always going to be sinning all the time?
Also, 1 Peter 4:1 says he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased (stopped) from sin. Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Romans 8:4-5 says,
4 "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit."
How can one fulfill the righteousness of the Law if one is walking after the flesh or if one is sinning all the time? This verse says we can fulfill the righteousness of the Law if we walk after the Spirit.
Now, do not misunderstand me here. This is not talking about the Law of Moses but the righteousness of the Law under the New Covenant (i.e. those Commands given to us under the New Testament). No man is justified by keeping the Old Law anymore because Christ's death brought in a New Covenant with new rules or Commands (that supercedes the Old). For the Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12).
blackribbon said:
Actually, John says, "He that committeth sin is of the devil" (1 John 3:8). John also says, "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20). Paul says, "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Romans 6:16). Paul also says, "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate" (Titus 1:16). Paul says, "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:22). Who was cut off before? The Jews. This means we Gentiles can be cut off just like they were cut off, too.
<staff edit>
Actually, the reverse is true.
Self professing Christians have committed suicide as a result of OSAS or a sin and still be saved type doctrine.
Suicide & OSAS:
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.
Murder, Suicide, & OSAS:
George Sodini.
blackribbon said:
The Bible does not ever speak once positively about suicide, and nor does it give us a hint that a person could be in Heaven if they were to commit such a detestable sin. Suicide is in essence self murder. 1 John 3:15 says no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. God says he will destroy those who defile his temple (1 Corinthians 3:17).
....
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Are you claiming that you don't sin? That you are sinless since become saved? That you are worthy of heaven by your own actions of being sinless now?
If so, our understanding of Christianity is very different. I have never said that it is okay to consciously chose to sin because that indicates rebellion and that is a heart issue. I might even question if you ever were saved if you consciously continue to sin because it indicates that God is not the ultimate "god" in your life. But everyone sins. Believe it not, you do too. However, I do not believe that if we do it negates our salvation or else we would have to be saved over and over and over again. It isn't through our actions that we are saved but simply through our BELIEF that Jesus is God and that He died to save us. (John 3:16). I guess only God really knows if we if really believe this or are just hedging our bets by saying that we do. If Jesus is God...you will live like He is God and knows all and is in control of all. But that does not mean that you will never make a mistake (even Peter did this by denying knowing Christ) and sin. Luckily, we are adopted children and our God loves us enough to continue to forgive us for being human....if we simply ask. I work with people who have attempted to commit suicide and have yet to meet a Christian who was rebelling against God through the act. In fact, most were sure that they were going to hell and yet, dying was still felt like the only option open. How sad is that? To be a Child of the King and yet feel so desolate that they didn't even feel loved by their all-loving Father? Again, where was the church while this one lamb went astray into the depths of internal despair? And why didn't the person feel loved enough to go to the church when they were so desperately in need of feeling loved unconditionally?
Life in this world is not the ultimate gift of God. If so, God would never have put Adam & Eve out of the Garden before they could eat of the Tree of Life. Death in Christ is our salvation from this world. It is our door to heaven and eternity. We are not to try to go there via suicide but life here is not quite as precious as you seem to believe it is. We all will eventually die. It is as much a given as birth. It is our responsibility as Christians to use our lifes to serve and worship Him but we are not to love it above Him. We are also supposed to use our time loving the unlovable to show them what unconditional love is...and not spend it focused on loving ourselves or feeling arrogant that we are "saved" while others are not. Our tears should be for the ones that God was not able to reach through us...not spending all our time hiding away from them and only surrounding ourselves with other saints feeling proud of our select status. Unless your feet are dirty from loving the sinners that haven't found their way back to God, your time in this life is just as wasted as it is for the Christians who committed suicide.
If so, our understanding of Christianity is very different. I have never said that it is okay to consciously chose to sin because that indicates rebellion and that is a heart issue. I might even question if you ever were saved if you consciously continue to sin because it indicates that God is not the ultimate "god" in your life. But everyone sins. Believe it not, you do too. However, I do not believe that if we do it negates our salvation or else we would have to be saved over and over and over again. It isn't through our actions that we are saved but simply through our BELIEF that Jesus is God and that He died to save us. (John 3:16). I guess only God really knows if we if really believe this or are just hedging our bets by saying that we do. If Jesus is God...you will live like He is God and knows all and is in control of all. But that does not mean that you will never make a mistake (even Peter did this by denying knowing Christ) and sin. Luckily, we are adopted children and our God loves us enough to continue to forgive us for being human....if we simply ask. I work with people who have attempted to commit suicide and have yet to meet a Christian who was rebelling against God through the act. In fact, most were sure that they were going to hell and yet, dying was still felt like the only option open. How sad is that? To be a Child of the King and yet feel so desolate that they didn't even feel loved by their all-loving Father? Again, where was the church while this one lamb went astray into the depths of internal despair? And why didn't the person feel loved enough to go to the church when they were so desperately in need of feeling loved unconditionally?
Life in this world is not the ultimate gift of God. If so, God would never have put Adam & Eve out of the Garden before they could eat of the Tree of Life. Death in Christ is our salvation from this world. It is our door to heaven and eternity. We are not to try to go there via suicide but life here is not quite as precious as you seem to believe it is. We all will eventually die. It is as much a given as birth. It is our responsibility as Christians to use our lifes to serve and worship Him but we are not to love it above Him. We are also supposed to use our time loving the unlovable to show them what unconditional love is...and not spend it focused on loving ourselves or feeling arrogant that we are "saved" while others are not. Our tears should be for the ones that God was not able to reach through us...not spending all our time hiding away from them and only surrounding ourselves with other saints feeling proud of our select status. Unless your feet are dirty from loving the sinners that haven't found their way back to God, your time in this life is just as wasted as it is for the Christians who committed suicide.
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First, reaching a state of Sinless Perfectionism is the goal and it is not a salvation issue if one does not reach it. For we do have God's mercy and grace to go to (1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9). However, this grace and mercy is not an excuse to make a person think they can treat sin (even one sin) as not being all that big of a deal or to even think they will always sin again at some point in their life. For to give into the idea that one will always sin is to give into evil and darkness. There is no victory over sin with this type of wrong thinking. For Romans 6:14 says sin shall not have dominion over you. Jesus says if you sin, you are a slave to sin (John 8:34).
Second, to deny Sinless Perfectionism is to deny the Sanctification process for the believer. For if one believes they will always sin in this life, they are agreeing with evil and they are not agreeing with righteousness as the end result of what Sanctification is supposed to accomplish for one's life (Which is to make one holy in conduct). The very words of Jesus Christ said we are to be perfect and that we can stop sinning. Also, how many sins did it take for Adam so as to cause a separation between man and God? It only took one sin. In fact, there are many warnings in the Bible against all kinds of types of sins (that have a dire consequence to our souls in the afterlife) whereby it is only talking about one sin, too. For example: Jesus said if you look upon a woman in lust your whole body could be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). 1 John 3:15 says that to hate your brother is likened to murder and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding within them. Ananaias and Sapphira had died and went to hell because they lied to the Spirit. Then a great fear fell upon the church and all who heard about it. Fear (Acts 5:1-11). Not the emotion of comfort or peace that they were in Heaven. This is why we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).
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Good luck on reaching sinless perfection through your own works...I will continue to rely on God's Grace and forgiveness as I make my goal each day to live a life that please Him through loving and serving his lost sheep as well as His adopted children.
Question: If you indeed reach the state of "Sinless Perfection", was it due to your own efforts or God's? If it was due to your own efforts, then why do you even need God?
I will continue to live with the belief that God does not need me to be perfect and can love me and cover me with His Grace in spite of my humanness. My job is to simply love Him with my whole heart and live my life such that I recognize that He is really God. And if I do that, I will love His other children with the same unconditional self-less love that He loves us with...both the saved and unsaved.
Matt 22: 37-40 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Question: If you indeed reach the state of "Sinless Perfection", was it due to your own efforts or God's? If it was due to your own efforts, then why do you even need God?
I will continue to live with the belief that God does not need me to be perfect and can love me and cover me with His Grace in spite of my humanness. My job is to simply love Him with my whole heart and live my life such that I recognize that He is really God. And if I do that, I will love His other children with the same unconditional self-less love that He loves us with...both the saved and unsaved.
Matt 22: 37-40 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
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Jason you miss the truth that if your a once saved believer, you are this,
'24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.'
The fact is a born of God believer can give into lusts of the flesh, but their inner man is renewed day by day by the Lord.
So they do not become unsaved, their exist a dichotomy inside of all born of God persons. On the one side is their new spirit, the inner man renewed daily, and the other is the old man of the mind and the flesh.
Ephesians 4, we are not to put on the old man, but put on the new man. See that new man is always there alongside the old mane.
The New Man
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
AND the really big one, all those who have this new man is said of them,
1 Corinthians 6:17New King James Version (NKJV)
17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
We do not become unjoined with the Lord, the new man God does not uncreate, the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
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On the Christian life, again Paul teaches we are joined, united with the Lord as one spirit with Him.
Paul never teaches that those who are united with Him as one spirit, are ever disunited.
Paul teaches you are not your own anymore, you do not have the right to do whatever you want with your body.
Paul teaches you were bought at a price, Christ owns you. So then honor God with your bodies.
Actually this entire passage teaches us we belong to the Lord and are united with Him.
1 Corinthians 6
Sexual Immorality
12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
Paul never teaches that those who are united with Him as one spirit, are ever disunited.
Paul teaches you are not your own anymore, you do not have the right to do whatever you want with your body.
Paul teaches you were bought at a price, Christ owns you. So then honor God with your bodies.
Actually this entire passage teaches us we belong to the Lord and are united with Him.
1 Corinthians 6
Sexual Immorality
12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
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Whoever said that I was relying on my own works? That is your own false assumption. I believe it is God who does the work thru me when I surrender or submit to Him (Philippians 2:13) (John 15:5). Hence, which is why I would give God all the glory for any good work done in my life and not myself.
blackribbon said:
Well, I believe God's grace is the baseline foundation of our faith. But one must also repent of their sins as a part of believing in Jesus, too. For Jesus said "repent" or perish. Repentance is defined by Jesus Christ Himself in Matthew 12:41. Jesus says the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. This means, that folks are failing to repent the correct way. If you were to turn to Jonah 3:6-10, you would see that the King of the Ninevites had told the people to cry out to God and to turn from their wicked ways. God then had seen that they turned from their sin and God then did not bring Judgment or wrath upon them as a result. This is the definition of repentance. Confess and forsake sin. We see this elsewhere in Scripture. Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. John also says the same thing in his 1st epistle. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7 says, "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
blackribbon said:
It's more like a cooperation. For how can two walk together unless they agree? (Amos 3:3). When you submit to God, He then moves in your life. God does not generally force people against their will to do His good work. He might nudge them in a strong way like with Jonah, but God is not going to drag a person about like a rag doll so as to preach the gospel or to meet the needs of the poor. But in the end, God gets all the glory for any good work done in your life. For it is why the 24 elders had cast their crowns down before Jesus. So there is no boasting in any good works within a believer's life. For Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8).
blackribbon said:
And this statement here would be a direct violation of the words of our Lord Jesus and Scripture.
For Jesus says, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:48).
Which is an echo of Leviticus that says, "Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy." (Leviticus 19:2).
blackribbon said:
But the Bible does not teach this version of grace that you can sin and still be saved, though. It doesn't work like that. Jesus said if you look upon a woman in lust your whole body can be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30).
blackribbon said:
Yes, if you love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul, then you will believe everything that He says in His Word about how sin (Which is disobedience to His Commandments) can lead unto spiritual death (i.e. the Lake of Fire or the Second Death). You will want to obey all of God's Commands within the New Testament if you truly love Him. For Jesus says, if you love me, keep my Commandments. In fact, in 1 Timothy 6:3-4, Paul essentially says if any speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and knows nothing. James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.
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Please do not tell me you are saying verse 17 is proposing that God is united with even a fornicator (meaning even a fornicating unbeliever is saved). Please, I hope that is not what you are suggesting here.
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You are under some kind of strange impression that God takes away our free will the moment we are born again or regenerated and a new creature in Christ. Yes, true believers have a good new nature instilled within them. But that does not mean they are not capable of not sinning. God created Adam with a good nature but Adam still had free will to act contrary to his good nature and sin (Which then caused a separation between God and man (Whereby we would need a Savior named Jesus Christ)).
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Additionally, joining yourself with a prostitute, you join one with them in the BODY only, not in the SPIRIT.
Do you realize the body, your body is dead, dies because of SIN, BUT the spirit is alive, has life because of the righteousness of CHRIST.
See again the dichotomy here between spirit and flesh, spirit and body. Even joining in the body with a harlot, does not make you one spirit with the harlot and the Lord and your own renewed spirit. Paul teaches you are only, if you do such a thing, joined with the harlot as one body. BUT if you do this beware, because God will judge such a thing, and destroy your body, maybe you will get sick, maybe you will perish, just like those who treated the Lord's supper in an unworthy manner, as Paul said, some were sick and some had died.
15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]
Do you realize the body, your body is dead, dies because of SIN, BUT the spirit is alive, has life because of the righteousness of CHRIST.
See again the dichotomy here between spirit and flesh, spirit and body. Even joining in the body with a harlot, does not make you one spirit with the harlot and the Lord and your own renewed spirit. Paul teaches you are only, if you do such a thing, joined with the harlot as one body. BUT if you do this beware, because God will judge such a thing, and destroy your body, maybe you will get sick, maybe you will perish, just like those who treated the Lord's supper in an unworthy manner, as Paul said, some were sick and some had died.
15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]
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YES! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I BELIEVE! Hit the nail right on the head!
Just kidding, I don't believe that at all.
Well, if that's what you want to know, it's a synergistic effort. A state of grace can be achieved through God working together with man, which results in abstinence from sin, at least for a time. If diligence is maintained this state of righteous living can be maintained. Here's a separate thread for that topic:
A man achieved Sinless Perfection!
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Onyx208
Member
Suicide is not selfish.
What's selfish is wanting someone to keep fighting when they are in such utter pain that they can hardly breathe, move, sleep, eat, etc. No, I am in no way condoning suicide. But to call it selfish only accomplishes displaying your sheer ignorance on mental health.
So please take time to thank the Good Lord tonight that you don't understand what I or thousands of others have been through.
Out.
What's selfish is wanting someone to keep fighting when they are in such utter pain that they can hardly breathe, move, sleep, eat, etc. No, I am in no way condoning suicide. But to call it selfish only accomplishes displaying your sheer ignorance on mental health.
So please take time to thank the Good Lord tonight that you don't understand what I or thousands of others have been through.
Out.
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So, it's selfish to want someone to keep fighting? I don't quite get your point.
"Keep fighting Mom, I know you can beat cancer!", is that selfish? I can't really think of a scenario in which wanting someone to live on is bad.
(Just creating a hypothetical scenario here)
So, if I found my wife with another man, and I kill her, him, and then myself, what have I just done?
I think a feeling of deep despair, as well as guilt, may have driven me to commit suicide. A way to heal, and close the book, in some sort of demented incoherent way.
I remember when I was a little kid, a relative died because of a murder-suicide. He was murdered, the friend committed suicide. So to say suicide is never a selfish act is probably not true.
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willowsbible
Active Member
I think you'd have to define what you personally, as the individual Christian yourself, define as a true Christian in order to go further in your list.
Jesus said anything we ask in his name will be granted to us. Other passages say God works all things for his good and in his time, which is not understood in the same way as we understand time. His thoughts are not like our own. When we think we need God to intercede in something, give us hope, answer a prayer of desperation, counting on what we've been promised as his hearkening unto our prayers and beseeching, and nothing seems to happen in the time frame we're familiar with in our mortal consciousness, some Christians can become so discouraged that they lose faith and hope and then their own life by their own choosing.
It is I think the worst way to lose a life. To take the one God blessed them with. But it happens. Rick Warren's son committed suicide. It is not known as to why but then again is it the Ekklesia's business to know? A pastor lost his child. It is a sorrow they must cope with as a family. The news was our business. Nothing else. In my opinion.
In cases of self murder, I believe an all knowing all loving Father shows mercy. He knows the heart of the faithful. And he would therefore know the surrender of the overwhelmed.
God rest the souls of those who take their own life. God have mercy.
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