A Baptist Children’s Home Rejected an Atheist’s Donation, So He Started a GoFundMe

[Hank77]

Because accepting the donation could be construed as a tacit approval of atheism.

Once again, what if the Jews had refused to take the help from Cyrus and Darius? They would have been going against the will of God. It was God who put that decree on Cyrus' heart and he was the king of a pagan nation.

How do we KNOW what God has put on the hearts of people outside the church?

This is one of the biggest reasons that the government HAS to intervene to take care of the poor. If churches will not accept help of people outside the church they will not be able to take care of all the people who need help. Especially not when churches and ministries are building 18,000 sq ft. parsonages and buying Leer jets for millions of dollars.
We cannot even provide healthcare for the poor in the churches, as the gentile Good Samaritan did.

 

[Dave-W]

How do we KNOW what God has put on the hearts of people outside the church?

By the use of the charismatic gift of discerning of spirits.

 

[Hank77]

Not what I am talking about and you know it. The demonic attachments that come with the source of the money.

Again, were there demonic attachments to the building supplies given to the Jews to rebuild the second temple? After all the supplies came from BABYLON where they actually worshiped pagan gods.

 

[Hank77]

DGI Harris - what exactly is your world view on demons and principalities?

So pray over those donations, the Lord has given us power over them!
He didn't give us a spirit of fear. That does come from satan.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

So pray over those donations, the Lord has given us power over them!
He didn't give us a spirit of fear. That does come from satan.

Apparently the demons in atheist are harder to remove.

 

[Dave-W]

So pray over those donations, the Lord has given us power over them!
He didn't give us a spirit of fear. That does come from satan.

Indeed. And with the charismatic gift of discerning of spirits, one could tell when those attachments were properly broken.

The problem is most Baptists (and other cessationist christians) have no idea about any of that.

 

[Dave-W]

Apparently the demons in atheist are harder to remove.

Not really. Probably the harder ones would be from Islamic sources or witches.

 

[Hank77]

Apparently the demons in atheist are harder to remove.

Or from their money it appears.

Not what I am talking about and you know it. The demonic attachments that come with the source of the money.

So you must believe that churches and their charities should not be taking donations from places like Lowes and Home Depot, which they do. 501 3cs take money, building supplies, etc. from many, many places that are secular run businesses. They don't make those businesses declare that they are Christian businesses. Didn't you know that?

Remember when David Wilkerson had the gang members collect a donations from the many unsaved in that meeting when he preached the Gospel to them. Was he afraid that their money would be demonically tainted? Would you say that David Wilkerson was a Spirit-filled Godly man, who operated in the gifts?

 

[Dave-W]

Would you say that David Wilkerson was a Spirit-filled Godly man, who operated in the gifts?

Definitely. And I know he prayed over that money as well.

 

[keith99]

The temple did not accept any coinage for tithes. If their agricultural tithes were too burdensome to bring to the temple, because they had to travel too far, they could sell them and bring the money to Jerusalem. Once they were there they had to buy grain, wine, animals, to pay their tithes to the Levites. There was no money given to the Levites. They also bought animals for sin offerings, etc.

A very similar situation comes up for some churches today and is frowned upon by some. The church will have books, etc. for sale inside the church lobby where people cannot avoid walking by them when they go to worship.
I think Jesus meant not to turn the house of God into a market place.

I agree with you that the money changers, who were selling animals etc. for tithes and sacrificial animals, were cheating people, with bad weights and measures.

I'm pretty sure I have seen sources that say there was changing of coinage. I'm not disputing that there was purchase of animals as now that you bring it up that is clear and unmistakable in Scripture.

EDIT: John 2:14 explicitly says Jesus turned over the tables of those exchanging coins the synoptic gospels speak of both those selling animals and moneychangers in the same verse. They clearly are 2 different examples of the problem and both were happening.

 

[cow451]

Details are a little sparse, but he speaks of talking to other members of the group, and their support for using "their money" in this way. It sounds like this donation came from the organization, and the money was not entirely his personal money.

BUT he was insistent that the credit be to the atheist organization.

It's like we can't win. People yell at us about 'where are all the atheist hospitals?', and then when we put our name on something, our motives are questioned. 'You're just trying to stop me from asking where all the atheist hospitals are! No fair!'

"put our name on something" is a telling statement.

The United Way would be a good recipient for this group. There are many options if the organization wants to give to a charitable group. If the children's group in question is a United Way recipient, the atheists could give their donation to United Way and designate that it go to the specific agency.

I've worked for and been a board member of a number of groups and I know what I'm talking about and I've seen people use charity for political and marketing agendas. Most of the time it works to everyone's interest, but sometimes lines have to be drawn. I know a rat when I smell one.

 

[Hank77]

I'm pretty sure I have seen sources that say there was changing of coinage. I'm not disputing that there was purchase of animals as now that you bring it up that is clear and unmistakable in Scripture.

EDIT: John 2:14 explicitly says Jesus turned over the tables of those exchanging coins the synoptic gospels speak of both those selling animals and moneychangers in the same verse. They clearly are 2 different examples of the problem and both were happening.

You are correct. There were moneychangers changing coinage from other places into Jewish coinage. I did some more research on that and it does make sense because this was the Passover and many came from far away.

However, I don't think Jesus had a problem with the foreign coinage anymore than He did with Jewish coinage.
Joh 2:16 and to those selling the doves he said, `Take these things hence; make not the house of my Father a house of merchandise.'

 

[keith99]

You are correct. There were moneychangers changing coinage from other places into Jewish coinage. I did some more research on that and it does make sense because this was the Passover and many came from far away.

However, I don't think Jesus had a problem with the foreign coinage anymore than He did with Jewish coinage.
Joh 2:16 and to those selling the doves he said, `Take these things hence; make not the house of my Father a house of merchandise.'

My point was in the opposite direction he had a problem with the required changing (and specifically where it was being done). Perhaps a bit of a reach to call the foreign money 'dirty' there is an aspect of that not unlike changing currency today. However back then the value was in the metal and a dime sized coin is still the same value no matter who struck it (assuming the same purity of course).

 

[Hank77]

My point was in the opposite direction he had a problem with the required changing (and specifically where it was being done). Perhaps a bit of a reach to call the foreign money 'dirty' there is an aspect of that not unlike changing currency today. However back then the value was in the metal and a dime sized coin is still the same value no matter who struck it (assuming the same purity of course).

I think we have arrived at a place that we are very close to the same understanding.

 

[JCFantasy23]

That's so strange. We're all people. We have a Baptist Children's home here - several actually - and they don't go around asking your religion before accepting your money.

 

[He is Risen 72]

Good for them, it is the Devils money.

 

[cow451]

That's so strange. We're all people. We have a Baptist Children's home here - several actually - and they don't go around asking your religion before accepting your money.

The donor specified the gift would be in the name of the Atheist organization.

 

[Hank77]

The donor specified the gift would be in the name of the Atheist organization.

So are you saying that God wouldn't use an atheist's money to do Godly work? Or are you saying that if they had taken the money they would be causing someone to stumble? Or just what is the problem specifically?

 

[Cute Tink]

The donor specified the gift would be in the name of the Atheist organization.

And, as everyone knows, money from an Atheist organization cannot be used to buy food and clothing.

 

[Cimorene]

You are missing my point. Yes, the whole world sins to one degree or another....I'm not making any kind of comparison on who's wronger in the world, I only want the full spectrum of what went on here.

No, I got your point, I just saw it as petty.