7 Verses That Destroy The Pre-trib Rapture Doctrine

[random person]

Here they are:

Revelation 2:7

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that OVERCOMETH will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that OVERCOMETH shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 2:17

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that OVERCOMETH will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 2:26

And he that OVERCOMETH, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 3:5

He that OVERCOMETH, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:12

Him that OVERCOMETH will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 3:21

To him that OVERCOMETH will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

 

[Lollerskates]

Here they are:

Revelation 2:7

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that OVERCOMETH will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that OVERCOMETH shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 2:17

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that OVERCOMETH will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 2:26

And he that OVERCOMETH, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 3:5

He that OVERCOMETH, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:12

Him that OVERCOMETH will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 3:21

To him that OVERCOMETH will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

God has never "rescued" His people so to speak. He has instead always given His people the power/tools to endure. Adam and Eve, Noah, Exodus, etc.: God didn't "rescue/rapture" then out of danger. He made them witnesses, and He gave them tools and exploits to endure and overcome.

I am not personally excited to be tortured, killed, imprisoned, or whatever may happen to me during the greater tribulation, but I know that God will give me a "hoplen of help" to go through whatever I need to go through. I also believe the patriarchs and matriarchs of Israel would "love" to be witnesses in the End. So, if we are in/going toward the End, I won't expect to be "raptured away" to safety.

 

[Shocker]

so if we aren't getting spared, what are we going to suffer through?

I'm not a pretribber btw..

Can u answer me that RP

 

[random person]

I am a partial preterist, so I believe the Great Tribulation occurred during the 3.5 year Neronian persecution of the Christians (66-68AD) and the 7 year war between the Jews and Romans which started in 66 AD and ended in 73 AD. And look at what happened at the MIDDLE of this week (7 years) ... the destruction of Jerusalem and the 2nd Temple in 70AD.

Revelation 6:9-11

Souls of the slain
Underneath the alter
Crying for judgment
Scene of defeat

Revelation 20:4

Souls of the beheaded
Sitting on thrones
Given judgment
Scene of victory

 

[Shocker]

I am a partial preterist, so I believe the Great Tribulation occurred during the 3.5 year Neronian persecution of the Christians (66-68AD) and the 7 year war between the Jews and Romans which started in 66 AD and ended in 73 AD. And look at what happened at the MIDDLE of this week (7 years) ... the destruction of Jerusalem and the 2nd Temple in 70AD.

Revelation 6:9-11

Souls of the slain
Underneath the alter
Crying for judgment
Scene of defeat

Revelation 20:4

Souls of the beheaded
Sitting on thrones
Given judgment
Scene of victory

Do you believe there is going to be a difficult period of time before Christ Returns?

 

[random person]

Do you believe there is going to be a difficult period of time before Christ Returns?

IDK, but I don't believe in a Rapture whether pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib. Neither do I believe in a literal millennial reign. I believe in a Second Coming and one Resurrection, both of the rrighteous and the wicked.

 

[Shocker]

IDK, but I don't believe in a Rapture whether pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib. Neither do I believe in a literal millennial reign. I believe in a Second Coming and one Resurrection, both of the rrighteous and the wicked.

So you basically believe that one day Christ is just going to appear out of the blue and "rapture" you to heaven?

Essentially that's exactly what you believe if you don't attribute the corresponding prophetic events surrounding his return.

That one day Christ just shows up catches you up and away to heaven..


Sounds like what the futurists call the rapture..

 

[random person]

So you basically believe that one day Christ is just going to appear out of the blue and "rapture" you to heaven?

Essentially that's exactly what you believe if you don't attribute the corresponding prophetic events surrounding his return.

That one day Christ just shows up catches you up and away to heaven..


Sounds like what the futurists call the rapture..

Only when we are caught up to the Lord it will on the Last Day.

John 5:28-29
John 6:39-40, 44, 54
John 11:24
John 12:48
1 Corinthians 15:50-54
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
2 Thessalonians 1:4-10

 

[Douggg]

Here they are:

Revelation 2:7

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that OVERCOMETH will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that OVERCOMETH shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 2:17

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that OVERCOMETH will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 2:26

And he that OVERCOMETH, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 3:5

He that OVERCOMETH, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:12

Him that OVERCOMETH will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 3:21

To him that OVERCOMETH will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

I am anytime rapture view.

How come Revelation 3:7-10 didn't make your list?

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

[random person]

I am anytime rapture view.

How come Revelation 3:7-10 didn't make your list?

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

A notorious verse used by pre-tribs to justify their views, here is what I learned, the Greek word peirasmos, is used only four times in the New Testament.

Luke 8:13
Hebrews 3:8
2 Peter 2:9
Revelation 3:10

◄ 3986. peirasmos

Strong's Concordance
peirasmos: an experiment, a trial, temptation
Original Word: πειρασμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: peirasmos
Phonetic Spelling: (pi-ras-mos')
Short Definition: trial, testing, temptation
Definition: (a) trial, probation, testing, being tried, (b) temptation, (c) calamity, affliction.

b. specifically, the trial of man's fidelity, integrity, virtue, constancy, etc.: 1 Peter 4:12; also an enticement to sin, temptation, whether arising from the desires or from outward circumstances, Luke 8:13; 1 Corinthians 10:13; ὑπομένειν πειρασμόν, James 1:12; an internal temptation to sin, 1 Timothy 6:9; of the temptation by which the devil sought to divert Jesus the Messiah from his divine errand, Luke 4:13; of a condition of things, or a mental state, by which we are enticed to sin, or to a lapse from faith and holiness: in the phrases εἰσφέρειν τινα εἰς πειρασμόν, Matthew 6:13; Luke 11:4; ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς πειρασμόν, Matthew 26:41; Mark 14:38 (here T WH ἔλθητε Luke 22:40, 46; adversity, affliction, trouble (cf. our trial), sent by God and serving to test or prove one's faith, holiness, character: plural, Luke 22:28; Acts 20:19; James 1:2; 1 Peter 1:6; τόν πειρασμόν μου τόν ἐν τῇ σαρκί μου, my temptation arising from my bodily infirmity, Galatians 4:14 Rec. (but see a. above); ὥρα τοῦ πειρασμοῦ, REVELATION 3:10; ἐκ πειρασμοῦ ῤύεσθαι, 2 Peter 2:9 (Deuteronomy 7:19; Deuteronomy 29:3; Sir. 2:1 Sir. 6:7 Sir. 36:1 (Sir. 33:1); 1 Macc. 2:52).

Strong's Greek: 3986. πειρασμός (peirasmos) -- an experiment, a trial, temptation

 

[Biblewriter]

A notorious verse used by pre-tribs to justify their views, here is what I learned, the Greek word peirasmos, is used only four times in the New Testament.

Luke 8:13
Hebrews 3:8
2 Peter 2:9
Revelation 3:10

◄ 3986. peirasmos

Strong's Concordance
peirasmos: an experiment, a trial, temptation
Original Word: πειρασμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: peirasmos
Phonetic Spelling: (pi-ras-mos')
Short Definition: trial, testing, temptation
Definition: (a) trial, probation, testing, being tried, (b) temptation, (c) calamity, affliction.

b. specifically, the trial of man's fidelity, integrity, virtue, constancy, etc.: 1 Peter 4:12; also an enticement to sin, temptation, whether arising from the desires or from outward circumstances, Luke 8:13; 1 Corinthians 10:13; ὑπομένειν πειρασμόν, James 1:12; an internal temptation to sin, 1 Timothy 6:9; of the temptation by which the devil sought to divert Jesus the Messiah from his divine errand, Luke 4:13; of a condition of things, or a mental state, by which we are enticed to sin, or to a lapse from faith and holiness: in the phrases εἰσφέρειν τινα εἰς πειρασμόν, Matthew 6:13; Luke 11:4; ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς πειρασμόν, Matthew 26:41; Mark 14:38 (here T WH ἔλθητε Luke 22:40, 46; adversity, affliction, trouble (cf. our trial), sent by God and serving to test or prove one's faith, holiness, character: plural, Luke 22:28; Acts 20:19; James 1:2; 1 Peter 1:6; τόν πειρασμόν μου τόν ἐν τῇ σαρκί μου, my temptation arising from my bodily infirmity, Galatians 4:14 Rec. (but see a. above); ὥρα τοῦ πειρασμοῦ, REVELATION 3:10; ἐκ πειρασμοῦ ῤύεσθαι, 2 Peter 2:9 (Deuteronomy 7:19; Deuteronomy 29:3; Sir. 2:1 Sir. 6:7 Sir. 36:1 (Sir. 33:1); 1 Macc. 2:52).

Strong's Greek: 3986. πειρασμός (peirasmos) -- an experiment, a trial, temptation

You are entirely correct that periasmos means "the trial of man's fidelity, integrity, virtue, constancy, etc."

And you still do not understand that the promise to be kept out of the time of that "trial of man's fidelity, integrity, virtue, constancy, etc.," does not mean being removed from the world before that time?

It specifically says that this time "shall come upon all the world." So the only way to keep them out of that time of testing is to remove them from the world before that time.

As to your nonsense about the promises to the overcomers proving that there will be no pre-trib rapture, that is just what I called it, nonsense.

This is just another proof that you do not even have the beginning of an idea of what we dispensationalists teach. It shows that you think that we imagine the rapture as an "escape plan" to be delivered from the torments that will be put upon us by "the Beast." That is not what we think, believe, or teach.

You have posted one of the strongest proofs of the pre-tribulation rapture, and you imagine that it disproves - what? That the thing we (and you, if you have indeed trusted in Jesus as the sole sacrifice for your sins) will be delivered from is not a "time of trouble," although it will indeed be that. It is the time of testing that will be imposed on the whole world.

The true believers in Jesus have already passed that test, and therefore will not be subjected to it again.

And this is not some kind of a "new" doctrine that was "invented" in the nineteenth century. It, along with most of the rest of the doctrines of dispensationalism, was being taught long before preterism was even invented.

 

[Bible2]

Douggg said in post 9:

How come Revelation 3:7-10 didn't make your list?

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The 7 epistles to 7 churches in Revelation chapters 2-3 were sent to 7 literal, 1st century AD local church congregations in 7 cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) (what's today western Turkey).

Revelation 3:10 meant that the literal, 1st century AD local church congregation in the city of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) would be kept safe from a persecution which came upon all the Roman world during the time of the Roman emperor Domitian. For the apostle John saw his Revelation vision (Revelation 1:1) near the end of Domitian's reign (Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), and Domitian persecuted the church toward the end of his reign. The righteous, literal, 1st century local church congregation in the city of Smyrna (Revelation 2:8) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) had to suffer and die in that persecution over a period of 10 literal days (Revelation 2:10).

The 1st century church in Philadelphia didn't have to be taken out of the world to be kept safe from (Greek: "ek") that persecution. For, as Jesus prayed for the church in general: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from (ek) the evil" (John 17:15,20). Also, the 1st century church in Philadelphia didn't have to be removed from time itself or from the earth in order to be kept from the "hour" (or the "time") of that persecution, just as, for example, a student in a classroom who's been excused from taking a test doesn't have to be removed from time itself or from the classroom in order to be excused from that time of testing. For he can be made to sit at his desk reading during that time, which won't be a time of testing for him.

Also, the 1st century persecution of Revelation 3:10 (and Revelation 2:10) was only "world"-wide in the sense of the Roman "world" (cf. Luke 2:1). So the subsequent reference to those on the "earth" in Revelation 3:10 should be understood as those Christians living on the earth during that time in the Roman empire, as opposed to those Christians who'd already died and gone to heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23).

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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