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666 or 616: Which is the devil's number?

Discussion in 'Fundamentalist Christians' started by RMDY, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. RMDY

    RMDY 1 John 1:9

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    I'm in a discussion with a guy who pulled a bunch of 'contradictions' probably from some athiest website and it included the mark of the beast as being 616 instead of 666. He's trying to discredit me preaching Jesus and I need help and understanding about this whole matter. Please help me.
     
  2. Stan53

    Stan53 Senior Member

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    Interesting. What the guy is really doing is deflecting attention from the real issue and that is the existence of God or not and the state of his soul.
    I don't think whether the number 616, 666 or another combination of numbers is important. The mark of the beast in what ever form it may take, is what is really important. And the reality is that we don't know what form it will take. We only know what the number or combination of numbers is. It may well be a 666 digit combination. I also happen to think, just as the Jews in Jesus day missed the boat on His coming, we will miss all the signs of His second coming.
    Sorry I cant help much. Best hone in on what the real issue is and deal with that.
     
  3. RMDY

    RMDY 1 John 1:9

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    Well, I'm locked in a spiritual battle with him with many people watching on the sidelines and some people supporting him, and he dropped this bomb on me, which if I can't defend against, would silence me and discredit Christ amongst many many people. So please, I ask for your prayers and for helping in dealing with this...


    This is what he said to me:

    "Btw, this is what you listen to. Contradictions of the bible :D

    Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

    (a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

    (b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1 )

    ==================

    In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

    (a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9 )

    (b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5)

    ==================

    How many fighting men were found in Judah?

    (a) Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9 )

    (b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5 )


    ==================

    God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

    (a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13 )

    (b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12 )

    ===================

    How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

    (a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)

    (b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2 )

    ===================

    How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

    (a) Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8 )

    (b) Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9 )

    ====================

    How long did he rule over Jerusalem?

    (a) Three months (2 Kings 24:8 )

    (b) Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9 )

    ====================

    The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?

    (a) Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8 )

    (b) Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)


    ====================

    When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

    (a) After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)

    (b) Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

    ======================

    How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

    (a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)

    (b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)


    =====================

    When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?

    (a) One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)

    (b) Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)

    ===================

    How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?

    (a) Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)

    (b) Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)

    ====================

    In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha, King of Israel die?

    (a) Twenty-sixth year (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8)

    (b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)

    ====================

    How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?

    (a) Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)

    (b) Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)

    =====================

    Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?

    (a) Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)

    (b) Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)

    ====================

    Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab?

    (a) Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)

    (b) Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)


    ====================

    How many were the children of Zattu?

    (a) Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)

    (b) Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)


    ====================

    Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?

    (a) Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40)

    (b) No (Joshua 15:63)

    ====================

    Jesus descended from which son of David?

    (a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6)

    (b) Nathan(Luke3:31)

    ====================

    How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?

    (a) By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)

    (b) His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)

    =====================

    When Jesus met Jairus was Jairus’ daughter already dead?

    (a) Yes. Matthew 9:18 quotes him as saying, “My daughter has just died.”

    (b) No. Mark 5:23 quotes him as saying, “My little daughter is at the point of death.”

    =====================

    Did Herod think that Jesus was John the Baptist?

    (a) Yes (Matthew 14:2; Mark 6:16)

    (b) No (Luke 9:9)

    =====================

    According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?

    (a) “If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true” (John 5:3 1)

    (b) “Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true” (John 8:14)

    =====================

    Did Judas kiss Jesus?

    (a) Yes (Matthew 26:48-50)

    (b) No. Judas could not get close enough to Jesus to kiss him (John 18:3-12)

    =====================

    Did Jesus bear his own cross?

    (a) Yes (John 19:17)

    (b) No (Matthew 27:31-32)

    =====================

    (a) Yes(Matthew27:50-5 1;MarklS:37-38)

    (b) No. After the curtain was torn, then Jesus crying with a loud voice, said, “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last (Luke 23:45-46)

    =====================

    Did Jesus say anything secretly?

    (a) No. “I have said nothing secretly” (John 18:20)

    (b) Yes. “He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything” (Mark 4:34). The disciples asked him “Why do you speak to them in parables?” He said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given” (Matthew 13: 1 0-11)

    =====================

    Where was Jesus at the sixth hour on the day of the crucifixion?

    (a) On the cross (Mark 15:23)

    (b) In Pilate’s court (John 19:14)

    ====================

    What was the exact wording on the cross?

    (a) “This is Jesus the King of the Jews” (Matthew 27:37)

    (b) “The King of the Jews” (Mark 15:26)

    © “This is the King of the Jews” (Luke 23:38)

    (d) “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews” (John 19:19)

    ====================

    Did Herod want to kill John the Baptist?

    (a) Yes (Matthew 14:5)

    (b) No. It was Herodias, the wife of Herod who wanted to kill him. But Herod knew that he was a righteous man and kept him safe (Mark 6:20)

    ====================

    Who was the tenth disciple of Jesus in the list of twelve?

    (a) Thaddaeus (Matthew 10: 1-4; Mark 3:13 -19)

    (b) Judas son of James is the corresponding name in Luke’s gospel (Luke 6:12-16)

    ==================

    (a) Adam was told that if and when he eats the forbidden fruit he would die the same day (Genesis 2:17)

    (b) Adam ate the fruit and went on to live to a ripe old age of 930 years (Genesis 5:5)

    ===================

    (a) God decided that the life-span of humans will be limited to 120 years (Genesis 6:3)

    (b) Many people born after that lived longer than 120. Arpachshad lived 438 years. His son Shelah lived 433 years. His son Eber lived 464 years, etc. (Genesis 11:12-16)

    ===================

    Would you like me to keep going? I have plenty more where that came from."
     
  4. salida

    salida Veteran

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    I understand it could be one because its a greek to english translation issue. I will have to research this again.
     
  5. Vince53

    Vince53 Junior Member

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    Let me try to help. The Jewish kings often began their reigns while the current king was still on the throne. That explains the different numbers of years.

    Years ago, I read how all those apparent contradictions are explained, but I can't remember too many more.
     
  6. oneofchrists

    oneofchrists Give Me Stength Lord

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    Hi RMDY! That is a big list even for a mighty scholar of God's word and I'm not sure If a scholar Could Put to rest all of those on that list. I would like to Help and I will Give some input as soon as I can....God Bless You RMDY and I do understand What You are up against....Dave
     
  7. TehMill

    TehMill Guest

    I always cut those dead, it is endless and you don't need to engage in them, tell people what YOU have got from the Lord and show them how you got it and how it accords with the scripture. They can only say you are deluded or lying. But if you believe God's word and you give it out then rest your case with God and prayer. Show how real Jesus is to you, you want to win hearts not minds.
     
  8. tz620q

    tz620q Regular Member

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    The issue of 616 versus 666 came about in the early versions of Revelations. In general, the Greek language versions had 666, while the Latin versions had 616. The explanation for the difference can be found here.

    Number of the Beast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  9. ydouxist

    ydouxist Senior Veteran

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  10. SwordoftheLord

    SwordoftheLord Defender of the Faith

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    I have a book at my house called "Errors" in the King James Bible" written by peter Ruckman, that dispells the so called Errors in the bible

    All those questions you were asked are in the book, Ruckman shows why these verses are not "Errors" in the KJV...

    I will answer every verse tormorrow if noone has by then..
     
  11. Hammster

    Hammster #foster #adopt Supporter

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    Neither number is the devil's number. However, 666 is the number of Nero.
     
  12. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Compassion is the basis of the teachings . Supporter

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    It could be a manuscript issue . even revelation has many manuscript variants .

    just googled it .

    textual variant

    616 vs. 666: Which Is the Real Number of the Beast?

    hope the apologetic section helps a little too . apparently Irenaeus was aware of the variant and affirmed the translation we have today . a few other comparisons are there also .
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
  13. Faith.Man

    Faith.Man Senior Veteran

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    Since most scholars believe Revelations was written after Nero's death on June 9th of 68 AD, the reference to Nero is not relevant, unless you are referring to Nero as a "type" of anti-Christ versus the true future anti-Christ. It was written about year 95 AD, long after Nero's death and the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem about 70 AD. If you're a preterist, you'd be trying to force an earlier date which is not supported by the known facts.
     
  14. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Compassion is the basis of the teachings . Supporter

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    yes Nero does add up to 666 in hebrew . or so i've seen a jewish friend illustrate once .

    In the ancient church they thought each roman emperor was the antichrist . thus the letter Paul reportedly (or perhaps one of his disciples who was given the charge of being "paul" by laying on of hands) wrote to the Thessalonians debunking the pre-imminent view with adding the requisites for "that day" to come .
     
  15. Hammster

    Hammster #foster #adopt Supporter

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    Not a preterist. Maybe a partial preterist. But there is much support for an early date vs. a later date. But not going to get into that.
     
  16. Faith.Man

    Faith.Man Senior Veteran

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    Then I won't either.
     
  17. dana b

    dana b Newbie

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    Hello there Christians,
    Here it is again, talk of how Nero is the 666. Well maybe it is. But if you really want to know how this number comes about see chapter 10 in the website www.secondbookofdaniel.com on page 148 To really understand this number 666 you'll have to read the entire chapter.
     
  18. PeterAV

    PeterAV Guest


    To start with, always use and trust ONLY the King James Bible.
    This list is brought about by those that refuse to read the Bible believingly.
    The Bible was written this way to expose the naysayers and bring those in faith to STUDY his word.
    But alas, the modern bibles take out the directive to study the word of God.
    This is why so many supposed Christians are lacking in answers.
    *******
    If one takes Dr. Ruckman's book, he exposes many of these supposed discrepancies with the Bible alone. NO GREEK NOR HEBREW needed.
    *******
    I gave my copy away, but I would like to see Swordofthelord's Answer to the one about the baths, 2,000 or 3,000 or is it both?
    Sword? You there?
    *******
    PeterAV
    Every word of God is pure:
    including this big long list above.
     
  19. PeterAV

    PeterAV Guest

    Here is a simple answer to one on the list. 2,000 baths as compared to 3,000 baths.
    *******
    At first glance it looked like a contradiction. But what is a "bath"? And what is a "molten sea"? A "bath" is a unit of measurement that is equivalent to 8 gallons of water. While the "molten sea" is a very large brass pan, in which they put water for the priests to wash in. 1 Kings describe how much the molten sea was usually filled, it was 2,000 baths. 2 Chronicles specified the capacity of the molten sea when filled to the brim, which was 3,000 baths. Therefore both passages are correct.
    *******
    See how simple it is when you actually BELIEVE your Bible and not run to man to say they are contradictions?
    PeterAV
    Every word of God is pure:
     
  20. Brito

    Brito Newbie

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    The earliest text so far found has the Greek- Chi Iota Stigma or 616.
    However other old texts and the majority of books nowadays in the western churches use 666.

    We are unlikely to find the original.

    John the divine was writing in Greek on the island of Patmos in the first century CE. He was NOT John the disciple and did not write the gospel according to John.
    His mystical ravings were intended for a contemporary audience and include the famous number of the beast which he clearly states represents a man. There has been much speculation about the person he meant with Nero being a common suggestion. Whomever he meant is now long dead and is no longer of the greatest importance.

    As to internal contradictions in the bible, of course there are differences in historical tales in the old testament. Read French and English versions of the Hundred Years War. Just because accounts vary does not mean it didn't take place.
    Anyone with a rigid absolutist belief in the literal truth of every word in the bible has got real problems. However if you can accept that real eyewitness accounts will never match word for word, then you can accept four different gospels that agree on the broad basic events but disagree about details.

    Brito.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013