47% of Israelis support racist discrimination

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rakovsky

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I don't agree with calling people "vile".

Unfortunately polls are sad. A survey by the Center for Jewish-Christian Relations and Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies showed among young people(18-29 years old):
34% expressed the view that Christian clergy should not be permitted to live anywhere in Israel (as compared with 25% of those in the 30-49 age bracket and 14% of those over 50)… 52% maintained that immigrants from the FSU who define themselves as Christians should not be permitted to practice their Christianity in Israel (as compared with 43% of those in the 30-49 age bracket and 25% of those over 50), and 31% expressed the view that the activities of the Churches in Israel should be restricted as much as possible (as compared with 20% of those in the 30-49 age bracket and 13% of those over 50).
www.jiis.org/.upload/publications/attitude2christanity.pdf‎
 
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This is absolutely pathetic. So much for being a freedom loving democracy in the Middle East. I feel physically sick as I read those statistics. If it wasn't for so-called Christians in America, Israel would not survive. Am yisrael chai! But only if Christians fight their battles. So that they can spit on Christians. Yep.
 
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I do not mean to intrude here, I am sorry.

But considering the way the Filistiniyyah have treated Jews, this should not be surprising. Jews were removed from their territory during the Khalifa multiple times.

It is justified that the Jews will hold this hatred against Arabs when they all wish to impose their dominion over them. If you got into this more then just looking at it you would understand the sort of hatred occurring here.

More then 80% of the Arabs believe that Jews have no right to any land at all so the calling of them vile is quite hypocritical.

How about the way the Jews have treated the Filistiniyyah? They came in, stole their land, killed their women and children, marginalized them, put them in an open air prison, block them from getting medical treatment and other basic life functions (such as clean drinking water), etc. What territory did the Jews have that the Khalifa removed them from? I thought that the Jews were dispersed from Palestine in A.D. 70.

It is not justified whatsoever. Is it justified for all Christians to hate Jews merely because the Jews turned Jesus over to be crucified? If the answer is no, then the Jews' hatred towards Arabs is not justified whatsoever. Racism is never okay, no matter what may have happened in the past.

Well, the issue of who has the right to the land is a touchy subject and it's a discussion reserved for another thread, but I don't believe that conquering hordes of foreign invaders have a particularly strong claim to the land that has been owned by Arabs for 2,000 years. I view Israel as an occupying force. Nonetheless, I don't particularly care. The past is the past and Israel seems to be there to stay. So let's forgive the past and move forward with equality. Only, Israelis don't want equality. They want to marginalize non-Jews. The past can be forgiven, but the present shall not be forgiven until there is reforms.
 
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EnemyOfReason

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How about the way the Jews have treated the Filistiniyyah? They came in, stole their land, killed their women and children, marginalized them, put them in an open air prison, block them from getting medical treatment and other basic life functions (such as clean drinking water), etc. What territory did the Jews have that the Khalifa removed them from? I thought that the Jews were dispersed from Palestine in A.D. 70.

It is not justified whatsoever. Is it justified for all Christians to hate Jews merely because the Jews turned Jesus over to be crucified? If the answer is no, then the Jews' hatred towards Arabs is not justified whatsoever. Racism is never okay, no matter what may have happened in the past.

Well, the issue of who has the right to the land is a touchy subject and it's a discussion reserved for another thread, but I don't believe that conquering hordes of foreign invaders have a particularly strong claim to the land that has been owned by Arabs for 2,000 years. I view Israel as an occupying force. Nonetheless, I don't particularly care. The past is the past and Israel seems to be there to stay. So let's forgive the past and move forward with equality. Only, Israelis don't want equality. They want to marginalize non-Jews. The past can be forgiven, but the present shall not be forgiven until there is reforms.

I never said the Jews are innocent, I have expressed this before in other posts.

Also for the record, historically speaking the Jews did not take the Filistiniyyah land. Filistine is ethnically traced back to Jordan. Once the Brits and French were done dividing the territories it was only east and west Jordan divided amongst the Red and Dead Sea and was appropriately referred upon as aba'ra al-Bahr mayit.

If you knew something of Arabic history or even understood the language, ideology, politics yet alone the influence of al-Qawmi'ya al-Arabiya you would know this.


Also let me just drop the "ex-Muslim card" here^_^
 
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Zeek

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How about the way the Jews have treated the Filistiniyyah? They came in, stole their land, killed their women and children, marginalized them, put them in an open air prison, block them from getting medical treatment and other basic life functions (such as clean drinking water), etc. What territory did the Jews have that the Khalifa removed them from? I thought that the Jews were dispersed from Palestine in A.D. 70.

There was no such region as Palestine in AD 70...it only became extant after the Bar Kokhba revolt was subdued in AD 135.

It is not justified whatsoever. Is it justified for all Christians to hate Jews merely because the Jews turned Jesus over to be crucified? If the answer is no, then the Jews' hatred towards Arabs is not justified whatsoever. Racism is never okay, no matter what may have happened in the past.

Despite statistic poles...the majority of Jewish people do not hate either the Arabs or the Christians...but they distrust both groups...the Arabs because they understand their agenda is to ultimately push them into the sea, and the Christian agenda that wants to make all Jews into Christians...either way many see it as a means of eradication.

Israelis don't want equality. They want to marginalize non-Jews. The past can be forgiven, but the present shall not be forgiven until there is reforms.

Not everything within Israeli society is hunkydory by any means...but they are a true liberal democracy, and many Arabs would rather live under imperfect Israeli laws than be subject to the vicissitudes of Islamic law.

Also it is not true that Israelis don't want equality...they are just wary of others that try to dictate to them how to run their own country....which is why they seek to define themselves as specifically a Jewish State.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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47% of Israelis think that Arabs should be stripped of their citizenship. What is wrong with these vile people?

independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-new-israeli-apartheid-poll-reveals-widespread-jewish-support-for-policy-of-discrimination-against-arab-minority-8223548.html

And 99% of muslims want 100% of Israelis to be stripped of their citizenship...what is wrong with these vile people?

roll eyes now...
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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:O

This is absolutely pathetic. So much for being a freedom loving democracy in the Middle East. I feel physically sick as I read those statistics. If it wasn't for so-called Christians in America, Israel would not survive. Am yisrael chai! But only if Christians fight their battles. So that they can spit on Christians. Yep.

"Love your enemies, do good to those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even the pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I do not mean to intrude here, I am sorry.

But considering the way the Filistiniyyah have treated Jews, this should not be surprising. Jews were removed from their territory during the Khalifa multiple times.

It is justified that the Jews will hold this hatred against Arabs when they all wish to impose their dominion over them. If you got into this more then just looking at it you would understand the sort of hatred occurring here.

More then 80% of the Arabs believe that Jews have no right to any land at all so the calling of them vile is quite hypocritical.

That is what I have been saying too.
 
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I never said the Jews are innocent, I have expressed this before in other posts.

Also for the record, historically speaking the Jews did not take the Filistiniyyah land. Filistine is ethnically traced back to Jordan. Once the Brits and French were done dividing the territories it was only east and west Jordan divided amongst the Red and Dead Sea and was appropriately referred upon as aba'ra al-Bahr mayit.

If you knew something of Arabic history or even understood the language, ideology, politics yet alone the influence of al-Qawmi'ya al-Arabiya you would know this.


Also let me just drop the "ex-Muslim card" here^_^
Let's stop speaking of the Palestinians themselves and put it this way. After the Jews were exiled, the Arabs moved in. I don't care if the Palestinians are Hashemites are not, they are still Arabs. Now, Israel has completely uprooted them.

As for Arabic history and language, I'm not particularly well versed in pan-Arab history. I do understand the language, though. I am also an ex-Muslim. Ex-Shia, actually.

There was no such region as Palestine in AD 70...it only became extant after the Bar Kokhba revolt was subdued in AD 135.
Oh. Hey. I thought you were going back to observer status as of yesterday? Or did you change your mind? Anyways, I never said that the land was known as Palestine in 70 A.D. We call it Palestine today, therefore the Jews were exiled from Palestine. Call it whatever you want. Canaan, perhaps? Transjordan? They're just words. You know exactly what region I was referring to so I don't know why you're making a big deal out of the terminology I use.

Despite statistic poles...the majority of Jewish people do not hate either the Arabs or the Christians...but they distrust both groups...the Arabs because they understand their agenda is to ultimately push them into the sea, and the Christian agenda that wants to make all Jews into Christians...either way many see it as a means of eradication.
Yeah? Well, I distrust Jews. And I absolutely unabatedly hate Israelis. Now, let me guess. That makes me an anti-Semite? Distrust of Christians and Arabs is okay but distrust of Jews is anti-Semitism. Standard Israeli rhetoric. Anyways, the Jews should distrust Christians and Arabs. Because if we (Christians and Arabs) had our way, we would absolutely destroy Israel. To be a Christian necessarily requires a level of hostility towards the murderers of God.

Not everything within Israeli society is hunkydory by any means...but they are a true liberal democracy, and many Arabs would rather live under imperfect Israeli laws than be subject to the vicissitudes of Islamic law.
That's like saying "not everything within Nazi Germany is hunkydory by any means...but they are a true liberal democracy, and many Europeans would rather live under imperfect Nazi laws than be subject to the vicissitudes of Jewish law." Israel is the new Nazi Germany, only worse.

Also it is not true that Israelis don't want equality...they are just wary of others that try to dictate to them how to run their own country....which is why they seek to define themselves as specifically a Jewish State.
Absolutely criminal. So Arab Israeli citizens get no say in how they run their country. That would be like saying something along the lines of "Also it is not true that Americans don't want equality...they are just wary of blacks and Mexicans that try to dictate to them how to run their own country." Plenty of blacks and Mexicans are citizens and therefore have a say in how to run the country. Likewise, many Arabs and many Christians are citizens of Israel and should have a say in how to run their country. Why don't you just come right out and admit that you're a racist anti-Christian and Islamophobe. I'll admit that I distrust Jews and hate Israelis. How about you admit your hatred as well?

And 99% of muslims want 100% of Israelis to be stripped of their citizenship...what is wrong with these vile people?

roll eyes now...
So? Israel is not a legitimate country. And besides, your statistics are off. More than 1% of Muslims are citizens of Israel. I highly doubt they want their own benefits removed. Stop making random nonsense up and stick to the facts and formulate some opinions. Don't falsify statistics.

"Love your enemies, do good to those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even the pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

"But woe to you, Jews*, hypocrites! For you lock people out of the kingdom of heaven. For you do not go in yourselves, and when others are going in, you stop them. Woe to you, Jews, hypocrites! For you cross the sea and land to make a single convert, and you make the new convert twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

Woe to you, blind guides, who say, 'Whoever swears by the sanctuary is bound by nothing, but whoever swears by the gold of the sanctuary is bound by the oath.' You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the sanctuary that has made the gold sacred? And you say, 'Whoever swears by the alter is bound by nothing, but whoever swears by the gift that is on the altar is bound by the oath.' How blind you are! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? So whoever swears by the alter, swears by it and by everything on it; and whoever swears by the sanctuary, swears by it and by the one who dwells in it; and whoever swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by the one who is seated upon it.

Woe to you, Jews, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. It is these you ought to have practiced without neglecting the others. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel!

Woe to you, Jews, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. You blind Jew! First clean the inside of the cup, so that the outside may become clean.

Woe to you, Jews, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which on the outside look beautiful, but inside they are full of bones of the dead and all kinds of filth. So you also on the outside look righteous to others, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

Woe to you, Jews, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous, and you say 'If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would have not taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' Thus you testify against yourselves that you are descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your ancestors. You snakes, you brood of vipers! How can you escape being sentenced to hell? Therefore I send you prophets, sages, and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town, so that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the alter. Truly I tell you, all this will come upon this generation." (Matthew 23:13-36)

*Most translations render this as "scribes and Pharisees" which were what the Jews of the time were known as popularly.

That is what I have been saying too.

Nobody cares. I respectfully ask you to stay out of my threads. You seem to be either an Evangelical that supports Israel because they fear the Jews or are a Jew yourself. You say you're Orthodox so I will accept your word, but know that Jesus would never support the Genocidal State of Israel.
 
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EnemyOfReason

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Let's stop speaking of the Palestinians themselves and put it this way. After the Jews were exiled, the Arabs moved in. I don't care if the Palestinians are Hashemites are not, they are still Arabs. Now, Israel has completely uprooted them.

As for Arabic history and language, I'm not particularly well versed in pan-Arab history. I do understand the language, though. I am also an ex-Muslim. Ex-Shia, actually.

Well this explains your affiliation then. You are stating an absurdity to a certain degree since you acknowledge Jewish territory but favor Jewish expulsion from it.

Sort of hypocritical considering that you as a Shia are most likely an Iraqi or Iranian and are familiar with the expulsion of Kurds and Armenians.

This is again hypocritical.
 
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Well this explains your affiliation then. You are stating an absurdity to a certain degree since you acknowledge Jewish territory but favor Jewish expulsion from it.

Sort of hypocritical considering that you as a Shia are most likely an Iraqi or Iranian and are familiar with the expulsion of Kurds and Armenians.

This is again hypocritical.

Um, no. Let's say, for example, I own a few acres of farm land. I abandon it and someone takes over. Can 2,000 years later, my descendants forcibly take it back and kill anybody that gets in the way? The Jews lost the land and it no longer belongs to them. Just because the re-acquired it by force does not make it legitimately theirs in my opinion.

Don't know anything about Armenians, but it was Saddam the expelled the Kurds, not Shias. And right now, Kurds have a voice in the government of Iraq. So I don't know what you're getting at.
 
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EnemyOfReason

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Um, no. Let's say, for example, I own a few acres of farm land. I abandon it and someone takes over. Can 2,000 years later, my descendants forcibly take it back and kill anybody that gets in the way? The Jews lost the land and it no longer belongs to them. Just because the re-acquired it by force does not make it legitimately theirs in my opinion.

Don't know anything about Armenians, but it was Saddam the expelled the Kurds, not Shias. And right now, Kurds have a voice in the government of Iraq. So I don't know what you're getting at.

This is again hypocritical. If their own land was stolen by force what is the issue of them tasking it back by force?

Your argument is that Filistiniyyah want the land they stole back from the Jews since it is rightfully theirs.

If stealing land makes it their rightful property then stealing it back should make it the rightful property of the opposing party.

This yet again makes no sense. You are picking sides without reason here. Why is it the Jews cannot take their land back the same way the Filistiniyyah stole it?

The Filistiniyyah and neighboring Arabs forced them out of their land. So what is wrong with Jews doing it?
 
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This is again hypocritical. If their own land was stolen by force what is the issue of them tasking it back by force?

Your argument is that Filistiniyyah want the land they stole back from the Jews since it is rightfully theirs.

If stealing land makes it their rightful property then stealing it back should make it the rightful property of the opposing party.

This yet again makes no sense. You are picking sides without reason here. Why is it the Jews cannot take their land back the same way the Filistiniyyah stole it?

The Filistiniyyah and neighboring Arabs forced them out of their land. So what is wrong with Jews doing it?

The land was not stolen by Arabs. The Jews were driven out by the Romans. Arabs merely took over the empty land and have lived there for 2,000 years. I'd say the Jews have to be pretty damn unforgiving if they're taking their 2,000 year old anger out on innocent women and children.

And, the Bible as well as the Talmud as well as Church tradition tells us that the Jews were exiled as a punishment from God. They are disobeying him by murdering innocent children to take back land that their great great great great great great great great great great grandparents might have lived on at one point. I pray that they are humiliated and destroyed. There is nothing hypocritical about this.

It's hypocritical for the Jews to think that they own the land merely because they're related to somebody that at one point lived there. The Talmud clearly says that the Jews are not to have their own country until the Messiah comes. Why do you think that the Hasidic Jews are against Israel? On al-Quds day this year, I went to a rally in downtown Seattle. A Jewish Rabbi (Yisroel Dovid Weiss) spoke about how it's abhorrent that Zionists are using his religion to commit atrocities against Arab children, women, the elderly, etc.

alqudsday.org/cities/seattle/
 
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EnemyOfReason

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The land was not stolen by Arabs. The Jews were driven out by the Romans. Arabs merely took over the empty land and have lived there for 2,000 years. I'd say the Jews have to be pretty damn unforgiving if they're taking their 2,000 year old anger out on innocent women and children.

And, the Bible as well as the Talmud as well as Church tradition tells us that the Jews were exiled as a punishment from God. They are disobeying him by murdering innocent children to take back land that their great great great great great great great great great great grandparents might have lived on at one point. I pray that they are humiliated and destroyed. There is nothing hypocritical about this.

It's hypocritical for the Jews to think that they own the land merely because they're related to somebody that at one point lived there. The Talmud clearly says that the Jews are not to have their own country until the Messiah comes. Why do you think that the Hasidic Jews are against Israel? On al-Quds day this year, I went to a rally in downtown Seattle. A Jewish Rabbi (Yisroel Dovid Weiss) spoke about how it's abhorrent that Zionists are using his religion to commit atrocities against Arab children, women, the elderly, etc.

alqudsday.org/cities/seattle/

Mhm mhm, the issue is that the Romans did not exactly do it. Jews have been up and down the Roman Empire since its first step into the lands.
Many known Jews existed in the empire and this is how Hellenic Judaism spawned.

This does not imply Rome forced them out at all. So your historical claims are severely off.


Also you are bringing god into this argument. I find it so that God has nothing to do with nor has he ever. So making Biblical claims is of no relevance to me.
 
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Mhm mhm, the issue is that the Romans did not exactly do it. Jews have been up and down the Roman Empire since its first step into the lands.
Many known Jews existed in the empire and this is how Hellenic Judaism spawned.

This does not imply Rome forced them out at all. So your historical claims are severely off.


Also you are bringing god into this argument. I find it so that God has nothing to do with nor has he ever. So making Biblical claims is of no relevance to me.

Your historical claims are severely off as well. Can you show me a shred of evidence that the Arabs forced the Jews out?

As for God, that's of no matter to me. This is a Christian forum so there shouldn't be a problem with bringing up Christian beliefs in regards to the issue at hand. And since Israel is meant to be a Jewish state, I see nothing wrong with bringing up what is written in the Jewish Talmud or what a Jewish Rabbi says. I mean, if there was no Talmud and no Rabbis, what would be the point of a Jewish state in the first place?
 
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I do not mean to intrude here, I am sorry.

But considering the way the Filistiniyyah have treated Jews, this should not be surprising. Jews were removed from their territory during the Khalifa multiple times.

It is justified that the Jews will hold this hatred against Arabs when they all wish to impose their dominion over them. If you got into this more then just looking at it you would understand the sort of hatred occurring here.

More then 80% of the Arabs believe that Jews have no right to any land at all so the calling of them vile is quite hypocritical.

I had a boss who worked in Israel for a time in the 60's. He said there was at that time a kind of divide among the Jewish population. Those who were from the Middle East themselves were very anti-Arab, and favored a variety of racist policies going as far as ethnic cleansing.

But those who had fled from Europe tended to be almost the opposite - they had seen the fruits of those kinds of attitudes and the horrors that followed.

Of course their were other differences that accounted for some of this, like the nature of their religious belief and education levels.

But I think when people have been oppressed, all too often they are quite ready to be the oppressors themselves when the situation is reversed.

This is a very human, but also I think a very bad thing, not to be encouraged. The stats in the OP are to some extend understandable, but not, I think, acceptable.
 
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EnemyOfReason

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Your historical claims are severely off as well. Can you show me a shred of evidence that the Arabs forced the Jews out?

As for God, that's of no matter to me. This is a Christian forum so there shouldn't be a problem with bringing up Christian beliefs in regards to the issue at hand. And since Israel is meant to be a Jewish state, I see nothing wrong with bringing up what is written in the Jewish Talmud or what a Jewish Rabbi says. I mean, if there was no Talmud and no Rabbis, what would be the point of a Jewish state in the first place?

The issue here is that I do not believe in the Bible nor Tawrat like you do. They are just pieces of literature.

It is also well documented during the Khilafa that in accordance to Umar ibn al-Khattab who opposed and forcefully remigrated Christians and Jews around in accordance to his whims.

Read up on history ;). That is all that I will say. This comes from both Jewish and Arab sources I should add. I am only giving one example but give me some time so I can compile a list
 
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What in the world is this conversation doing here?

Orthodox don't debate Israel as a matter of doctrine. If you want to debate it as a matter of politics, please go elsewhere.

And, for the record, WE are the "woe to you, scribes and Pharaisees" Christ was addressing. And no, that was NOT what Jews in general were called, but rather the ruling class of the best and brightest followers of Judaism---Christ was calling out the leaders and those who claimed to be the closest adherents to God, but who didn't recognize Christ when they saw Him. And it is directed to US in the Gospel reading.
 
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