272 Slaves Were Sold to Save Georgetown. What Does It Owe Their Descendants?

[Pwnerer]

LOL,... you have a gift.

I could teach you, but I'd have to charge.

 

[nightflight]

Struggle on, nobel detective.

Wish you would tell that to my lieutenant; he's been riding me hard about my "lone wolf" attitude.

 

[rambot]

Georgetown payed the price when bought the slaves. They payed monetarily and morally, adopting African chattel slavery into white culture. What should be done is to find out the region of Africa they were from, and force that country to pay reparations. Not only did they export the slaves, but they helped poison white culture with a dehumanizing institution from oppressive black culture.

Good stuff! Slave owners shouldn't be held responsible for owning slaves.

That is precious!

 

[TerranceL]

Good stuff! Slave owners shouldn't be held responsible for owning slaves.

That is precious!

I'm more annoyed by the idea that somehow slavery is strictly part of African culture.

To own other humans is a very distinctly human thing.

The medieval Japanese had slaves, I'm pretty sure they didn't get the concept from Africa.

 

[rambot]

I'm more annoyed by the idea that somehow slavery is strictly part of African culture.

To own other humans is a very distinctly human thing.

The medieval Japanese had slaves, I'm pretty sure they didn't get the concept from Africa.

I don't think there's a culture on this planet that has not had slaves.

 

[Pwnerer]

Good stuff! Slave owners shouldn't be held responsible for owning slaves.

That is precious!

I said they payed the price, and you're saying that means they're not responsible. That doesn't make any sense, and there's no clear point behind what you wrote there

 

[Rick Otto]

Got a citation there, champ?

Isn't there a list of "Progressives" at the Post Office?

 

[rambot]

I said they payed the price, and you're saying that means they're not responsible. That doesn't make any sense, and there's no clear point behind what you wrote there

I think there is a moral culpability towards owning slave. I don't understand your argument about the morally of it. Are you suggesting that black slavery was foisted upon the poor whites? Or that there was no slavery in white culture (hence the "poisoning"??? CAuse that's beyond foolish) prior to the overpowering blacks?

 

[TerranceL]

I don't think there's a culture on this planet that has not had slaves.

As best I can tell humans are exceptionally good at a a few things:

• Calling their own culture "civilized" despite how they treat the least of them in their own society and despite how they treat people outside of their society.
• Doing amazingly horrible things to people in their society and outside of their society.
  
• Then explaining why the horrible thing they just did was TOTALLY JUSTIFIED but the horrible thing that another society did to them was TOTALLY UNJUSTIFIED.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Cool. I like the implication that there is a "Filipino culture" and even more hilarious the idea that it might somehow deserve to keep existing and stuff

Lol there isn't one of those either really. If there was there would be that whole insurrection in the southern islands that has been going on for the past 50 years.

 

[TheQuietRiot]

Which Africans? Which country? I love when people trot out, "Black people should be thankful they were slaves, look at all their standard of living in America!" How do you even begin to dissect the layers of racism here? For one thing, their standard of living should be higher, but we'll just leave that onion of racism alone. I want to take some time to acknowledge the greatness of the atomic bomb, how else would we have gotten Playstation?!"

How about all of them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

Any person regardless of race is undoubtedly better off in America than in any African country. It's called the third world for a reason.

 

[rambot]

As best I can tell humans are exceptionally good at a a few things:
Calling their own culture "civilized" despite how they treat the least of them in their own society and despite how they treat people outside of their society.

• Doing amazingly horrible things to people in their society and outside of their society.
  
• Then explaining why the horrible thing they just did was TOTALLY JUSTIFIED but the horrible thing that another society did to them was TOTALLY UNJUSTIFIED.

100%
And a nice addendum description to what happens after colonianism.

 

[rambot]

How about all of them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

Any person regardless of race is undoubtedly better off in America than in any African country. It's called the third world for a reason.

I disagree. In fact, I disagree 100%. You don't think there are any rich people in Africa? You don't think there are corrupt power brokers (AND politicians) who have managed to get themselves a princely situation? I guess that shows how little you know about Africa. Even the odd African who (*gasp*!) worked hard, attended school, has earned post secondary credentials and is successful. I guess that shows how willing you are to let caricatures inform your opinions OF AN ENTIRE CONTINENT.

As I think about what you write, it sounds more and more xenophobic and ignorant so I better move on.

But lastly, a happy farmer who works hard for his family; goes back home to HIS house and is loved by HIS family and is an active member in HIS community, well, I'd argue they are better off than a transient with no loved ones, no sense of purpose, no job, compromised mental health, no sense of pride or motivation, and nobody to care.

 

[TerranceL]

100%
And a nice addendum description to what happens after colonianism.

Actually my point was that all peoples are generally horrible to one another, long before anyone showed up to colonize a land the people there were doing horrible things to each other.

 

[rambot]

Actually my point was that all peoples are generally horrible to one another, long before anyone showed up to colonize a land the people there were doing horrible things to each other.

ALL people are GENERALLY horrible? Well, that I don't know I'd agree with that. But yes, surely they did do terrible things to each other; can't argue that.

 

[TerranceL]

ALL people are GENERALLY horrible? Well, that I don't know I'd agree with that. But yes, surely they did do terrible things to each other; can't argue that.

All cultures were for the most part. I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply I was talking about individuals, I'm discussing societies.

I can't think of any part of the world where there isn't evidence of mass bloodshed pre-european colonization. Humans are tribal creatures and woe unto those who aren't part of that tribe.

 

[rambot]

All cultures were for the most part. I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply I was talking about individuals, I'm discussing societies.

I can't think of any part of the world where there isn't evidence of mass bloodshed pre-european colonization. Humans are tribal creatures and woe unto those who aren't part of that tribe.

I would totally agree. That's part of the reason that one of the critiques of OT stories and the crazy bloodshed and violence in them, seems meaningless to me given that, in order to survive, I'm sure most cultures at that time HAD to adapt a strategy like that or they would be wiped out (as you say [and as God said]: "Woe unto those....").

 

[SummerMadness]

Actually my point was that all peoples are generally horrible to one another, long before anyone showed up to colonize a land the people there were doing horrible things to each other.

Your argument is essentially an #AllLivesMatter argument. Different societies and nations have had slavery, so there is no specific importance to American chattel slavery in the grand scheme of human civilization.

Well, it is of particular importance to the descendants of African Americans slaves because in the grand scheme of human civilization, it was not long ago for African Americans. Only about 50 years have passed since the effects of that system legally ended, so it is extremely pertinent to American society.

Screaming that other societies have used slave labor means nothing to how slave labor played out in American society. Guess what? It doesn't matter what Egyptian society did in 3000 BC, what matters is what American society did during the slave trade and after the slave trade. American slavery was different from African slavery, which was different from Arab slavery, which was different from Japanese slavery. We don't need to discuss those forms of slavery, we need to focus on American slavery, its effect on American society, and the influence it has on present-day American society. You may argue that in the abstract, it does not matter, but we're not dealing with the abstract, we're dealing with the tangible, direct descendants of that system.

 

[TerranceL]

Your argument is essentially an #AllLivesMatter argument. Different societies and nations have had slavery, so there is no specific importance to American chattel slavery in the grand scheme of human civilization.

Wow it looks like you took a lot of time typing all this out. Probably could have saved yourself some times if you had taken the time check the quote chains to see what we were discussing.

Pwnerer said: ↑
Georgetown payed the price when bought the slaves. They payed monetarily and morally, adopting African chattel slavery into white culture. What should be done is to find out the region of Africa they were from, and force that country to pay reparations. Not only did they export the slaves, but they helped poison white culture with a dehumanizing institution from oppressive black culture.

Good stuff! Slave owners shouldn't be held responsible for owning slaves.

That is precious!

I'm more annoyed by the idea that somehow slavery is strictly part of African culture.

To own other humans is a very distinctly human thing.

The medieval Japanese had slaves, I'm pretty sure they didn't get the concept from Africa.

You are arguing against a straw-man.

Do you agree with Pwnerer that slavery is "african culture"? If you don't I would imagine you agree with me that slavery is pretty common in most if not all human cultures.

Is there a part of this you disagree with?

 

[Vicomte13]

I like your style Vicomte, you've painted a vivid picture of why the current generation is entitled to nothing based on the circumstances of the past generations.

That was not my intent. My intent was to say that the current generation of Blacks and Amerindians, and future generations for awhile probably, absolutely ARE entitled to a great deal from our states and federal government, BECAUSE OF the formal legal oppression of the past, directed specifically at those two groups, that left them without capital, either monetary, physical or intellectual, to be able to compete in a society where the rest were not similarly oppressed, and where the rest were able to develop monetary, physical and intellectual capital at the expense of blacks and Amerindians.

I don't think that simply monetary reparations are the answer, because the black and Amerindian populations lack the social and intellectual capital to invest it wisely in themselves, and there are waves of carnival-barker types from the other races (and their own) who will be more than eager to offer them mirages to separate them from their newfound windfall.

No, I think that the government and people of the United States owe a GREAT DEAL of investment into the black and Amerindian communities SPECIFICALLY, NOT to "the whole population of American poor", but specifically to blacks and Indians, in order to bring them up to the standard working class levels of education and security that the rest of Americans have always enjoyed, but that blacks and Indians COULD NOT enjoy historically, because they were beaten down by the police until the 1970s.

I just don't think that reparations will solve anything. Rather, I think that the schools in poor black areas and on the reservations must be improved substantially, and staffed with MORE PEOPLE and MORE supervision than comparable white schools. There are greater problems in the ghetto, and the greatest problems in the black ghetto. Our civilization caused that with its historical evils. And we are obliged to fix it. We CANNOT fix it using our current system of school funding, because school funding is local. People who never had anything going back to slavery, and who are poorly educated and so can't get anything, are doomed by our system to worse educations. To fix that, you have to transfer cash from the rest of the system INTO the poor black and Indian areas, and because those areas are the most broken, you have to spend MORE per capita on those students than on typical white or other immigrant students. In particular, a lot more supervisory and advisory staff has to be assigned, class sizes must be much smaller and much more hands on.

Otherwise, undereducated and undisciplined children will leave bad schools into turbulent ghettos, and then we'll spend three times as much incarcerating them as it would have cost to educate them, and then five times as much on medical care from all of the neglect.

I want to fix the problem, and that means disproportionate spending on the institutions that serve the ghettos: the schools and the prisons and the police and social services, in order to stabilize and then improve the lot of each child.

This is essentially a reversal of the normal system, where the kids in the wealthiest neighborhoods get the most educational resources, because school funding is based on property taxes, which are higher in wealthier areas.

I don't suggest beggaring the good schools. Rather, we simply have to transfer money in from the general funds, state and federal, to bring UP the ghetto schools, get rid of the ghetto homeless issue, get the mental health care for those who need it, and educate in the prisons, and provide post-prison jobs. It will take a generation and a half of work and heavy investment to actually break the cycle of crime and ignorance, but that's not so bad, given that we spent 12 generations beating those people to a bloody pulp.

Individual reparations will solve nothing. Realistic overinvestment in black and Indian areas will solve the problem in 50 years, and ARE a moral obligation of the nation that created the black and Amerindian problems in the first place through our cruelty.

I believe that every word I've written is true. I also believe that the bulk of Americans are not moral enough to accept that, and that we won't fix the problem. And I believe that the new waves of immigrants, the Latinos in particular, will find greater kinship in the Amerindians and blacks than among the indifferent whites. Which means that politically, the minorities will be a larger and larger voting bloc (as the white population dwindles due to contraception), and that eventually we will have across the board redistribution through socialistic taxation and policies that are not TARGETED but general - because a general redistribution will favor newly arrived Latinos, but a targeted redistribution would address the historical wrongs of America and bring blacks and Indians into the American mainstream.

In other words, I think Americans are by and large cheap and cruel, and stupidly short-sighted, and will lose their civilization on account of it. Our great grandchildren will speak Spanish as a first language, and it will be because we did not address the Black and Indian problem, NOT because of Latin immigration. The part of our civilization we neglected will have greater kinship with the invaders, will side with them, and we will have nobody but ourselves to blame for it.