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4th March 2004, 10:14 AM
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Reps: 5,366,872,137,174,994 (power: 5,366,872,137,214) | | Originally Posted by Tangnefedd I am just aghast that folk still question interracial marriages. The title of this thread is racist and should not be permitted on a forum!
Yes the words are racist and they were stated by a US senator in 1912 who wanted to ammend the US consittution to prevent interracial marriages..
The editorial is making a comparison to Gay marriage.
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"America, we have come so far. We have seen so much. But there is so much more to do. So tonight, let us ask ourselves – if our children should live to see the next century; if my daughters should be so lucky to live as long as Ann Nixon Cooper, what change will they see? What progress will we have made?
This is our chance to answer that call. This is our moment. This is our time – to put our people back to work and open doors of opportunity for our kids; to restore prosperity and promote the cause of peace; to reclaim the American Dream and reaffirm that fundamental truth – that out of many, we are one; that while we breathe, we hope, and where we are met with cynicism, and doubt, and those who tell us that we can’t, we will respond with that timeless creed that sums up the spirit of a people:
Yes We Can. "
President Barack Obama
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4th March 2004, 10:18 AM
|  | Reunite Gondwanaland!
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Reps: 3,699,076,576,853,478 (power: 3,699,076,576,866) | | Originally Posted by AsburyJuke No one is stopping gays spending their lives together, and they don't need a piece of paper to do so. I think this is all about rights rather than the actual need to get married.
This IS all about rights. We--supposedly--have equal rights in this country. When one group of people is being denied the rights that everyone else has, we should stand up and protest that. Originally Posted by AsburyJuke IMO marriage is only needed when people plan on having children.
Well, I can't have children. You mean I could be shacking up now and that would be okay? Please show me the scriptural basis for that.
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4th March 2004, 10:40 AM
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Reps: 26,555,008,207,197,768 (power: 26,555,008,207,214) | | Originally Posted by AsburyJuke It's a total insult to black people that homosexual oppression is being compared to the struggle for black equality.
There are parallels that exist. A marriage is between a man and a woman, be they green, blue, turquoise or pink.
The point of this thread being that at one time, marriage was between a two races was "wrong" for similar reasons that marriage between people of the same sex is "wrong". So definitions change. Popular conceptions of things change. No one is stopping gays spending their lives together, and they don't need a piece of paper to do so. I think this is all about rights rather than the actual need to get married.
Except for that "piece of paper" bestows certain privledges, which are immensly important to permanent couples, regardless of whether or not they have children. Such as hospital visitation rights. If my partner is in the hospital, I have absolutely no right to visit him or get any information on his condition. If he should die, the hospital is under no obligation to tell me. Some of the privledges granted by marriage can be achieved through alternate means, but you can't get them all, and it costs much more time, money, and effort and even then the privledges are not nearly as legally strong as a marriage. IMO marriage is only needed when people plan on having children.
So then by your logic, infertile heterosexual couples should not be allowed to marry? What if a gay couple plans to have children through alternate means? |
4th March 2004, 10:52 AM
|  | Born-again Liberal Episcopalian
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Reps: 262,607,594,537,243,968 (power: 262,607,594,537,263) | | Originally Posted by AsburyJuke It's a total insult to black people that homosexual oppression is being compared to the struggle for black equality.
A marriage is between a man and a woman, be they green, blue, turquoise or pink. Yes, it is disgusting that it was opposed, and just goes to show how unChristian the US has always been.
No one is stopping gays spending their lives together, and they don't need a piece of paper to do so. I think this is all about rights rather than the actual need to get married.
IMO marriage is only needed when people plan on having children.
I don't think interracial couples and gays are anywhere near the same thing.
It's a total insult to human beings, IMO, when somebody decides that an analogy between one person's problems and another person's problems is "a total insult" to the first person.
A marriage is not exclusively for the production of children, or we'd have mandatory divorce of all couples where the woman reaches menopause, so that the man does not "waste his seed" with her but can go on conceiving kids with some sweet young thing.
I've told the story of my marriage over in Groundhog's thread, and I flat out refuse to accept the validity of anyone's judgment that our marriage, while barren, is not "real" or "worthwhile."
We married because we loved each other and wanted to formally commit ourselves to spending the rest of our lives together.
So did Volos and Alec.
The difference is, we have a whole slew of legal rights resulting from the government recognizing our marriage -- she can rest assured that my second cousins cannot successfully challenge my will; each of us can be sure that our wishes will be honored if we are incapacitated, by the other acting as next of kin. Our marriage is "portable" -- if we decided to move to Florida or Arizona, we won't have to go through hoops demonstrating to bureaucrats that we are indeed married there.
Theirs is not. |
4th March 2004, 11:26 AM
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Reps: 26,771 (power: 43) | | Originally Posted by mhatten That is fine that you are a dissenter.
A dissenter does not kill people though as JD pointed out. That is clealry hatred, homophobia, bigorty all those ugly terms rolled up into one big ball of ugly humanity.
I seriously doubt that most are "homophobes" to that extreme but some not all people do fear it for whatever reason and are bigoted about the subject and would be just plain unreasonable to think that there are not people like that.
I don't think the murderers are homophobes either, necessarily. I have seen no empirical evidence that this is the case. Don't get me wrong or put words in my mouth, though. There is no excuse for murdering anyone, never mind a homosexual or someone of a different race or creed. However, I am going to put forward that the action is born out of hatred.
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4th March 2004, 11:35 AM
| | Darth Bilbo
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Reps: 13 (power: 0) | | | I don't think interracial marriage is sinful per se. However, I think in most cases it is probably unwise and shouldn't be encouraged. And those who oppose it shouldn't automatically be denounced as "hateful racists", because in many cases they aren't. I'm not. I think that as dr feelgood has pointed out about the "homophobe" label, it's just intended to smear one's character and put an end to all debate. |
4th March 2004, 11:43 AM
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Reps: 5,366,872,137,174,994 (power: 5,366,872,137,214) | | Originally Posted by Gutierrez I don't think interracial marriage is sinful per se. However, I think in most cases it is probably unwise and shouldn't be encouraged. And those who oppose it shouldn't automatically be denounced as "hateful racists", because in many cases they aren't. I'm not. I think that as dr feelgood has pointed out about the "homophobe" label, it's just intended to smear one's character and put an end to all debate.
Well if it is not sinful per se what is it then, let's not mince words here, which is all I really see.
Why shouldn't it be encouraged or discouraged for that matter, what difference does it make at all?
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"America, we have come so far. We have seen so much. But there is so much more to do. So tonight, let us ask ourselves – if our children should live to see the next century; if my daughters should be so lucky to live as long as Ann Nixon Cooper, what change will they see? What progress will we have made?
This is our chance to answer that call. This is our moment. This is our time – to put our people back to work and open doors of opportunity for our kids; to restore prosperity and promote the cause of peace; to reclaim the American Dream and reaffirm that fundamental truth – that out of many, we are one; that while we breathe, we hope, and where we are met with cynicism, and doubt, and those who tell us that we can’t, we will respond with that timeless creed that sums up the spirit of a people:
Yes We Can. "
President Barack Obama
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4th March 2004, 11:54 AM
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Reps: 26,771 (power: 43) | | Originally Posted by mhatten Well if it is not sinful per se what is it then, let's not mince words here, which is all I really see.
Why shouldn't it be encouraged or discouraged for that matter, what difference does it make at all?
Why does everything have to be black and white?
Let's just let it ride and leave the choice up to the individual. The choice won't send them to hell that I know of. At least the Bible doesn't say so, unlike other actions, so I think it's safe to remain neutral. 
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Nothing is more despicable than a respect based on fear. |
4th March 2004, 12:07 PM
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Reps: 5,366,872,137,174,994 (power: 5,366,872,137,214) | | Originally Posted by drfeelgood Why does everything have to be black and white?
Because people are  , no seriously I know everything is not Black or White. Let's just let it ride and leave the choice up to the individual. The choice won't send them to hell that I know of. At least the Bible doesn't say so, unlike other actions, so I think it's safe to remain neutral.
Why just let it ride per se?
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"America, we have come so far. We have seen so much. But there is so much more to do. So tonight, let us ask ourselves – if our children should live to see the next century; if my daughters should be so lucky to live as long as Ann Nixon Cooper, what change will they see? What progress will we have made?
This is our chance to answer that call. This is our moment. This is our time – to put our people back to work and open doors of opportunity for our kids; to restore prosperity and promote the cause of peace; to reclaim the American Dream and reaffirm that fundamental truth – that out of many, we are one; that while we breathe, we hope, and where we are met with cynicism, and doubt, and those who tell us that we can’t, we will respond with that timeless creed that sums up the spirit of a people:
Yes We Can. "
President Barack Obama
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4th March 2004, 12:48 PM
|  | Orthogonal, Tangential, Tenuously Related
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Reps: 2,470 (power: 18) | | Originally Posted by drfeelgood I don't think the murderers are homophobes either, necessarily. I have seen no empirical evidence that this is the case.
Eh? These people kill homosexuals then admit they killed homosexuals because they hate homosexuals. What are you waiting for, the PET-scan data? Don't get me wrong or put words in my mouth, though. There is no excuse for murdering anyone, never mind a homosexual or someone of a different race or creed. However, I am going to put forward that the action is born out of hatred.
How is that incompatible with the common usage of "homophobia"?
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