| Unorthodox Theology A forum to discuss/debate theological doctrines not accepted by mainstream evangelical Christianity (eg. Full Preterism, Unitarianism)
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28th February 2004, 01:09 AM
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Reps: 83 (power: 0) | | | I believe in the same exact God any other Christian believes in. True, the Bible was written by people who were inspired by God, but that doesn't exactally make it 100% God's word. I beliebe God speaks to me, shows me what is right and what is wrong. He would never let me down.
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"You could move."
-Abigail Van Buren,
(Dear Abby),
in response to a reader
who complained that a
gay couple was moving
in across the street and
wanted to know what
he could do to improve
the quality of the
neighborhood.
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28th February 2004, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Invader Pichu I believe in the same exact God any other Christian believes in. True, the Bible was written by people who were inspired by God, but that doesn't exactally make it 100% God's word. I beliebe God speaks to me, shows me what is right and what is wrong. He would never let me down.
How does God speak to you? He speaks to me through his word. Please ask God if this verse is true. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Please ask him how we can abide in his word if we do not have his word today.John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
Please ask him how are we to know what we are going to be judged by if we cannot trust in his word?
John 12:48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him -- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
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2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. |
28th February 2004, 02:05 AM
|  | Lie back on the couch.
 
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Reps: 1,169 (power: 15) | | Originally Posted by cougan How does God speak to you? He speaks to me through his word. Please ask God if this verse is true. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Please ask him how we can abide in his word if we do not have his word today.John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
Please ask him how are we to know what we are going to be judged by if we cannot trust in his word?
John 12:48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him -- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
What is the Word of God? Do you think Jesus was talking about the Protestant canon? The phrase "Word of the Lord" and derivatives did not refer to written documents until quite a bit after Christ. Jesus wasn't asking the disciples to abide in the Bible.
Trusting in God and God's Word is not the same as accepting the Bible as literal commandments from God to us in the year 2004. We can trust in the Protestant Canon, but we still have to read it in context of its language, culture, and literary type.
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You say you were toilet trained at gunpoint? Hmmm.... this might explain a few things. |
29th February 2004, 09:10 AM
| | Legend
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Reps: 945,962 (power: 0) | | | Well, you know something, cougan?
Originally Posted by cougan Ok I will ask these simple questions below and I will remove my own answer. My questions were not rhetorical I simply provided my answer to them. Now the ball is in your court. I have simplfied the question and I leave it up to you to answer. Are you in Christ?
Please note the following things that are found in Christ. Redemption Rom 3:24, Eternal life Rom 6:23, No condemnation rom 8:1, Ever spiritual blessing eph 1:3, Grace 2 Tim 2:1 and Salvation 2Tim:2:10.
Would'nt you agree that we must be in Christ to be saved?
If we are outside of Christ we are lost correct?
What does the word of God teach on how we can get into Christ? Galatians 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Romans 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
Paul teaches us in both of these passages that it is at the point of baptism that one is put into Christ where all the spirtual blessing are found.
Can a person be put into Christ without baptism? Can a person be put into his death without baptism?
Considering that less than THREE PERCENT of the world's population consists of evangelical, fundamentalist Protestant Christians; and God most likely knew what He was doing when He revealed Himself to all these other people -- Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Orthodox, mainstream Protestants, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. -- I leave the decisions as to "who's saved" and "who qualifies to enter an afterlife" up to HIM, you know? 
Now, if that makes me a "universalist" -- so be it. Lord knows I've been called worse things. |
1st March 2004, 03:04 PM
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Reps: 2,890,608,320 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by UberLutheran Matthew 18:6
Whoever will cause one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him that a huge millstone should be hung around his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depths of the sea.
Luke 10:37
Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."
Matthew 11:15
He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
What exactly is your point?
Are you accusing Cougan of taking passages that are not related and putting them together to call for the wrong action? Hopefully, there is another explanation for your post.
Eph. 1:3 says that all spiritual blessings are in Christ, including redemption through His blood (verse 7). That should be enough to warrant some study to determine what is required to put one into Christ. |
1st March 2004, 04:13 PM
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Reps: 9,651,755 (power: 9,668) | | | Hi Cougan,
Maybe it's just me, but most of the verses in the OP are from Paul. I like ones like, "Love each other as I have loved you." "Obey the commandments; give all you have to the poor and follow me." "Love God with your whole heart, soul, strength and mind; Love your neighbor as yourself." "Is there no one here who condemns you?... Neither do I; now go and sin no more." "...your faith has healed/saved you."
And I don't worry about being 'in Christ,' instead, I prefer to see Jesus in everyone I meet.
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Soul receives from soul that knowledge, therefore not by book nor from tongue.If knowledge of mysteries come after emptiness of mind, that is illumination of heart.
--Rumi
When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but rather, I am in the heart of God." And think not you can direct the course of love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself.
--Gibran
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1st March 2004, 04:52 PM
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Reps: 2,890,608,320 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Soul_Searcher Hi Cougan,
Maybe it's just me, but most of the verses in the OP are from Paul. I like ones like, "Love each other as I have loved you." "Obey the commandments; give all you have to the poor and follow me." "Love God with your whole heart, soul, strength and mind; Love your neighbor as yourself." "Is there no one here who condemns you?... Neither do I; now go and sin no more." "...your faith has healed/saved you."
And I don't worry about being 'in Christ,' instead, I prefer to see Jesus in everyone I meet.
Actually, credit needs to go to whom credit is due. God is one that should be credited with all the passages that Cougan used in the original post (2 Tim. 3:16-17).
Cougan did a really good job of helping us see the blessings that result when one is in Christ. It becomes necessary that we understand how to be recognized by God as being "in Christ" - - where all spiritual blessings are - - even redemption through Jesus' blood (Eph. 1:3,7).
"Obey the commandments" is a part of one of the passages you used. Amen to obedience. (See Heb. 5:9 & 2 Thess. 1:8). Obedience is frequently overlooked in discussions about salvation. Have you been baptized into Christ (Gal. 3:26-27) for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38)? |
1st March 2004, 05:48 PM
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Do not merely listen to the word, and so DECEIVE yourselves. Do what it says.
A person is justified by what he DOES and not by faith alone.
Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. |
1st March 2004, 06:17 PM
| | Senior Veteran
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Reps: 2,890,608,320 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by UberLutheran Considering that less than THREE PERCENT of the world's population consists of evangelical, fundamentalist Protestant Christians; and God most likely knew what He was doing when He revealed Himself to all these other people -- Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Orthodox, mainstream Protestants, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. -- I leave the decisions as to "who's saved" and "who qualifies to enter an afterlife" up to HIM, you know?
Now, if that makes me a "universalist" -- so be it. Lord knows I've been called worse things.
Of the groups you mentioned, only the Jews were in existence when Jesus walked upon the earth. Jesus said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted" (Matt. 15:13). He said this in reference to the Pharisees, a sect of the Jews. In reality, only the Jews that had the faith of Abraham were his true sons (Gal. 3:7).
While it is refreshing to be reminded of the eternal home for the faithful (John 14:1-6), it is sobering to consider that the majority of folks simply won't be there (Matt. 7:13-14) - - not even many folks who claim to follow the Lord (Matt. 7:21-23)!
Judgment is the Lord's business. Teaching the gospel to others is our's (2 Tim. 4:1-4, Heb. 5:12). It is a serious responsibility (James 3:1). |
1st March 2004, 06:19 PM
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Reps: 30 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by cbk If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
Do not merely listen to the word, and so DECEIVE yourselves. Do what it says.
A person is justified by what he DOES and not by faith alone.
Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Please see "Christ In You: A study in Paul's Theology and Ethics" by William Barcley.
A review is here http://www.bookreviews.org/pdf/951_355.pdf
Reading the last paragraph of the review it appears to be a refutation of the proposition that Cougan has made. | | |
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