Credit where credit's due: KCM's integrity

Theophilus7 · #1 30th September 2004, 03:57 AM

Hello,

Although no Kenneth Copeland fan, I have had some experience of KCM's ministry over the years through relatives. From what I have seen, I do not recall ever seeing Kenneth Copeland beg for money or bombard his viewers and magazine subscribers with financial appeals. On the Friday broadcast, the BVOV does give people the opportunity to "sow into this ministry", but again, it's tastefully done without any long spiel or whining. From my experience, KCM is much more a model of proper ministry, on this issue, than many non-WoF ministries with no emphasis on prosperity whatsoever.

Has this been your experience?

T7

Suffolk Sean · #2 30th September 2004, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Theophilus7

Hello,

Although no Kenneth Copeland fan, I have had some experience of KCM's ministry over the years through relatives. From what I have seen, I do not recall ever seeing Kenneth Copeland beg for money or bombard his viewers and magazine subscribers with financial appeals. On the Friday broadcast, the BVOV does give people the opportunity to "sow into this ministry", but again, it's tastefully done without any long spiel or whining. From my experience, KCM is much more a model of proper ministry, on this issue, than many non-WoF ministries with no emphasis on prosperity whatsoever.

Has this been your experience?

T7

My experience with them has been the same, they do not use a heavy hand to raise funds at all. The only time I ever really hear them talk about money is if they are doing a partner drive and it isn't solicitation, it is an invitation.

victoryword · #3 30th September 2004, 11:58 AM

T7

YOU are a man of integrity. Though you often do not agree with many of us heretical WoFers (hehehehehe), you are just as quick to point out the good you see. If the critics of WoF did that more often then they might just maintain their audience. Too many people are starting to find that it is many of the harsh and extreme critics of the WoF that are lacking in integrity. While some (emphasis on some) critics bring up valid points, their integrity is shot with obvious out-of-context statements, false background info, etc.

Another thing about KCM is that when those hurricanes started hitting the coast, they called all of their partners and asked if there was anything that they could do for us. They did not make not one appeal for money during the phone call. All they cared about was what they could do for us. On the other hand, last night I had a non-charismatic ministry (though it is a good ministry) call me with a survey. I answered the survey. After they told me that they agreed with my answer then they hit me up for some money.

The critics will always neglect to mention these things though. Perhaps it's just an oversight on their part - NOT!!!

Theophilus7 · #4 30th September 2004, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by victoryword

T7

YOU are a man of integrity.

Thank you, victoryword.

Though you often do not agree with many of us heretical WoFers (hehehehehe)

you are just as quick to point out the good you see. If the critics of WoF did that more often then they might just maintain their audience. Too many people are starting to find that it is many of the harsh and extreme critics of the WoF that are lacking in integrity. While some (emphasis on some) critics bring up valid points, their integrity is shot with obvious out-of-context statements, false background info, etc.

That's one of the things I liked about Bruce Barron's book. He went out of his way to affirm the good things he could see. (He also took the trouble to actually enrole on a Rhema Bible course too!)

I have a problem with many 'apologists' in the Church. They have become sanctified fault-finders. The very idea that I could become one of them terrifies me.

I remember something C.S. Lewis once said:

"Pride can often be used to beat down the simpler vices... The devil laughs... he would be quite content to see your chilblains cured if he was allowed, in return, to give you cancer... Pride is spiritual cancer: it eats up the very possibility of love, or contentment, or even common sense." (Mere Christianity)

Is it possible that some of these 'orthodox' apologists are in a worse kind of error than some of the people they criticise - a spiritual error? Oh, they may have avoided (and cured others) of various heterodoxical ideas, but I wonder, which is best in the eyes of God? A servant with a somewhat aberrant theology who has attained some degree of humility, or an orthodox apologist riddled with the sin of SPIRITUAL PRIDE - the very stuff of hell!

The demons are orthodox (Jam. 2:19), but they're still devils...

Theophilus7 · #5 30th September 2004, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by victoryword

Another thing about KCM is that when those hurricanes started hitting the coast, they called all of their partners and asked if there was anything that they could do for us. They did not make not one appeal for money during the phone call. All they cared about was what they could do for us.

That is impressive. Definitely a point to KCM.

On the other hand, last night I had a non-charismatic ministry (though it is a good ministry) call me with a survey. I answered the survey. After they told me that they agreed with my answer then they hit me up for some money.

The critics will always neglect to mention these things though. Perhaps it's just an oversight on their part - NOT!!!

Quite. "If you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will." It takes another sort of person to see the good. There is a difference between discernment and heresy hunting. The true 'heresy hunters' are so keen to get everyone firmly on their side of the fence that they'll bend or bury the truth to do it. "Let us do evil, that good may come"... Their condemnation is deserved.

May God help us to do our apologetics in the right spirit.

T7

Blade · #6 30th September 2004, 06:47 PM

I agree with you Theophilus7 and I am not a partner but when there was a fire here they called me and asked if there was anything I need or they could do. Thank you for saying this.

lovesblessing · #7 1st October 2004, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by Theophilus7

Hello,

Although no Kenneth Copeland fan, I have had some experience of KCM's ministry over the years through relatives. From what I have seen, I do not recall ever seeing Kenneth Copeland beg for money or bombard his viewers and magazine subscribers with financial appeals. On the Friday broadcast, the BVOV does give people the opportunity to "sow into this ministry", but again, it's tastefully done without any long spiel or whining. From my experience, KCM is much more a model of proper ministry, on this issue, than many non-WoF ministries with no emphasis on prosperity whatsoever.

Has this been your experience?

T7

Thank you Sir for a kind post. I have been a partner with KCM for years and I have always been blessed by them. They never ask for any certain donations, etc. to receive some special blessing. Just simply point out what God said in His word and ask people to pray and seek God about what a person should give or not give to them. The only way for you to tell that they are believing for funding for anything in their ministry is when they give away something, postage paid during their programs. They sow seed and believe God for their harvest....no begging necessary!

While on this subject...let me say something else about Joyce Meyer's ministry. I have been partners with her ministry since '93 or '94 and altho' she always speaks about people sending an offering if they consistantly feed from her ministry, she has never asked for special offerings to cover the cost of this or that, etc. I read an article that ran in a St. Louis newspaper that slammed her ministry about the money and their lifestyle....how she had a new expensive home built...(it was an old Victorian that they bought used and remodeled)....and that they had their own plane.....gosh, was that a surprise to me! The only thing Joyce had ever talked about with airplanes, was how Dave would drag her to the airport extra early, so they wouldn't miss their flight! LOL! What I mean is, they have never sent any request for money so they could buy a plane for them to travel on! If I hadn't read the paper, I would still think that she was getting dragged to the airport early everytime they traveled!

Sometimes.....it makes you wonder. Bye!

Blessed Be Jesus My Lord!!!!

lovesblessing

jesusisthekeytomyheart · #8 2nd October 2004, 02:25 AM

Wow! I love this post! I've definately noticed that KCM is a giving ministry. Their envelopes never require postage,yet I send postage anyway. Alot of what I've ordered shipping doesn't have a charge. I can truly say it is a ministry of integrity! They are very wise when it comes to prosperity.(because they had to walk through it by faith) Gloria says that when her and Bro. Copeland got saved they just believed God's Word for what it said. They always seem to be right on target with what they preach. I love their ministry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

victoryword · #9 2nd October 2004, 10:49 AM

The follwing is a post by a friend of mine on another forum that relates somewhat to this issue of integrity:

Creflo Dollar and James Robison teamed up to help the poorest of the poor in southern black rural communities. Many of the people they were endeavoring to help don't have indoor plumbing or sewage treatment in their small enclaves. The poverty was unbelievable. I liked how Dollar and Robison toured these communities to put a plan together to help these people. Many of the people they interviewed were people active in their churches and they had great faith, and dreams of their children making it. Yet, Dollar is maligned all the time on this board about how he lives in luxury and doesn't lift a finger for those in need......as if people really know what Creflo does in secret.

Thank God that some of the WoF preachers are getting good reports.

jesusisthekeytomyheart · #10 2nd October 2004, 11:25 AM

Creflo, has done alot too! I remember hearing a lady give her testimomy from his church that had needed a car.He has also given things to KCM. I'm sure it's done where just everyone doesn't hear about it.(trying not to sound a trumpet) I remember Creflo talking about when he first started walking by faith and how he was discouraged. He had one pair of shoes that had holes in the bottom of them and when he would wear them in the rain his feet would get wet.One morning he was down and his pastor called him to make sure he would be attending church.Anyway, he ended up going and his church blessed him with some new clothes.These WOF preachers didn't get where they are overnight.As Gloria and Bro. Kenneth have said,"if it happened overnight , it was the longest night of our lives." People don't realize how they all started out. Just like us learning one day at a time and being serious about it!