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3rd May 2004, 05:10 AM
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Reps: 12,682 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Frumious Bandersnatch So apparently you are saying that God poofed the animals to Australia and New Zealand after the flood.
The amazing thing was that God was able to get them back to the exact location that they came from. Even though the water level was now 300 or 400 feet higher and the geography was changed quite a bit.
Biodiversity is based on a pre world wide flood model, not a post flood model.
Here is a photo showing the pre flood and post flood land that was above water level. Biodiversity is based on the pre flood land formation. The land that is now below water level make up the coral reefs. The coral has to have something to feed off of. | 
3rd May 2004, 09:25 AM
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Reps: 2,512 (power: 13) | | Originally Posted by JohnR7 The amazing thing was that God was able to get them back to the exact location that they came from. Even though the water level was now 300 or 400 feet higher and the geography was changed quite a bit.
Biodiversity is based on a pre world wide flood model, not a post flood model.
Here is a photo showing the pre flood and post flood land that was above water level. Biodiversity is based on the pre flood land formation. The land that is now below water level make up the coral reefs. The coral has to have something to feed off of.
Wouldn't the coral die off during the flood as it would be way under water...unable to get any sunlight? Also, coral doesn't grow real fast, yet we have coral systems that appear to be tens of thousands of years old or more.
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3rd May 2004, 10:39 AM
|  | Mad Preacher 26  | | Join Date: 24th August 2003 Location: Somewhere
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Reps: 118 (power: 0) | | Sorry I have not been on much, I don't usually get the chance to go online much over the weekends. Forgive me, I asked that wrong- why would primitive bacteria only be found in the lowest strata, and why is it that all that is found in the lowest strata is primitive bacteria?
I don't really think the assertion you question makes is true, but I all my really good resources are at home, so I will check it out once I get back there. pages later; still waiting on something from AlHail about my thread...
Look, I realise that you're trying to answer everyone at once here and you may not be able to respond - but seriously, this isn't the way to debate properly. I think Frumious has already suggested that you pick one thread, bump it and start on a single topic in detail. You really should think about doing this - I formally volunteer my thread, seeing as the Flood would have had the greatest impact on geology if it occurred.
Actually I plan on doing that, but I still want to tie up loose ends here first. You're forgetting- even if they were constantly traveling, had they seen a body of water before? Yes. Had someone in their lineage ever had contact with a body of water that might have flooded or stormed? There's no reason to believe that someone in their recent ancestry had not. So could an exaggerated fear or story eventually be passed down as a world-wide flood story? Yes.
Yes they might have come across a river here and there, or stopped at a lake, but what from that experience would ever suggest that the entire world was flooded at one time? Every civilization has a flood story. But do they all possess stories of worldwide floods? I do not know the answer to this myself- I was just wondering if you could direct me to a source that claims such.
I don't think every civilization posesses these stories, but a good majority. http://www.nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html
this is a site about the flood legends, it has quite a few,but it does not have all of them obviously, but it has links to other sites about flood legends as well The water had still not yet gone down completely. So... it's a more straightforward reading that they were still afloat. Even if they weren't partially submerged- that's not the point. A flood would have sterilized the planet of all terrestrial flora. Seeds included! To assume that God supernaturally re-created plants you think He did on the third day is extra-Biblical.
Genesis 8:
4 and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat. 5 The waters continued to recede until the tenth month, and on the first day of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible.
6 After forty days Noah opened the window he had made in the ark 7 and sent out a raven, and it kept flying back and forth until the water had dried up from the earth. 8 Then he sent out a dove to see if the water had receded from the surface of the ground. 9 But the dove could find no place to set its feet because there was water over all the surface of the earth; so it returned to Noah in the ark. He reached out his hand and took the dove and brought it back to himself in the ark. 10 He waited seven more days and again sent out the dove from the ark. 11 When the dove returned to him in the evening, there in its beak was a freshly plucked olive leaf! Then Noah knew that the water had receded from the earth. Followed buffalo... which lived around sources of water. Animals, including humans require sources of water for survival. Buffalo don't just eat grass all day for their daily water intake. Indians followed buffalo as they wandered to different bodies of water. I didn't think I would have to escort you to the logical ends and implications of what I was getting at.
I know what you were getting at, but seeing a few rivers in lakes would not really suggest that the entire earth was ever flooded.
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Last edited by AlHailThePowerOfJesusName; 3rd May 2004 at 10:49 AM.
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3rd May 2004, 10:53 AM
|  | Legend 59 
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Reps: 12,682 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Routerider Wouldn't the coral die off during the flood
Coral lives in shallow water that during the last ice age was land above the water level. So the coral lives off of the plant life that was there before the ocean level flooded the land. Most everything in this world seems to need something that come before it, to live off of. | 
3rd May 2004, 11:24 AM
| | Geologist
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Reps: 55,296 (power: 64) | | Actually I plan on doing that, but I still want to tie up loose ends here first.
Excellent. PM me as soon as you're ready and we can continue the topic - I'll bump it up now in case anyone else wants to join in. (As always, you're more than welcome to.)
I'll check back tomorrow then.
The Rock Hound
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3rd May 2004, 01:34 PM
|  | Disciple of the Annunaki Alliance 39 
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Reps: 2,512 (power: 13) | | Originally Posted by JohnR7 Coral lives in shallow water that during the last ice age was land above the water level. So the coral lives off of the plant life that was there before the ocean level flooded the land. Most everything in this world seems to need something that come before it, to live off of.
I guess what I'm getting at is coral are fairly delicate animals, they don't like alot of changes in their ecosystems. There is process called coral bleaching, basically the dying off of pieces of the coral system due various problems...they are address in this short article: http://www.uvi.edu/coral.reefer/bleach.htm
and also a second article: http://www.uvi.edu/coral.reefer/threats.htm
I don't see how ANY coral can possibly make it through a global deluge. They don't seem to handle slight global temperature changes much less massive temperature changes, salinity changes, etc etc.
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Last edited by Routerider; 3rd May 2004 at 04:34 PM.
Reason: Typo's suck
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3rd May 2004, 01:58 PM
|  | Contributor 65  | | Join Date: 4th March 2003
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Reps: 19,183,710,574,649,584 (power: 19,183,710,574,664) | | I don't think every civilization posesses these stories, but a good majority.
Yes but most civilizations developed around water and as I pointed out many of them are very different from the myth the Hebrews borrowed from the epic of Gligamesh. A good many civilizations have myths about people who can turn into animals, ranging from European Werewolves to Navajo Skin walkers. I hope you stay off the moors when the moon is full. this is a site about the flood legends, it has quite a few,but it does not have all of them obviously, but it has links to other sites about flood legends as well
The talk origins site has a far more extensive collection or flood myths and many of them are wildly different from the Genesis myth as you will see if you read them. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html I know what you were getting at, but seeing a few rivers in lakes would not really suggest that the entire earth was ever flooded.
This was regarding the Sioux. Did you read my post 122? They lived around Lake Superior until they got horses and then moved into plains and anyway there used to be gigantic floods of the Missouri river during spring thaws because of melting of snow and break up of ice dams.
The frumious Bandersnatch | 
3rd May 2004, 03:05 PM
|  | Mad Preacher 26  | | Join Date: 24th August 2003 Location: Somewhere
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Reps: 118 (power: 0) | | This was regarding the Sioux. Did you read my post 122? They lived around Lake Superior until they got horses and then moved into plains and anyway there used to be gigantic floods of the Missouri river during spring thaws because of melting of snow and break up of ice dams.
that is interesting... where did you hear that (just wondering) It was specifically reguarding the Sioux, Yes, however this same argument could be said of any nomadic group... whether or not it would apply to the Sioux.
True many are wildly different, but there are a good number as well that are strikingly similar. The distortion through oral tradition is obvious, but even those which are wildly different still have some similarities, and that they are all about worldwide floods, seems a little more than coincidental. Yes but most civilizations developed around water and as I pointed out many of them are very different from the myth the Hebrews borrowed from the epic of Gligamesh. A good many civilizations have myths about people who can turn into animals, ranging from European Werewolves to Navajo Skin walkers. I hope you stay off the moors when the moon is full.
yes but many which did not develop around water still have these myths, so what? Why couldn't the Genesis account, and the Epic of Gilgamesh just have been a history of the same event?
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3rd May 2004, 03:38 PM
|  | Contributor 65  | | Join Date: 4th March 2003
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Reps: 19,183,710,574,649,584 (power: 19,183,710,574,664) | | that is interesting... where did you hear that (just wondering) It was specifically reguarding the Sioux, Yes, however this same argument could be said of any nomadic group... whether or not it would apply to the Sioux. I read it in a history of American Indians somewhere. Do you think they chased buffalo around on the plains before they got horses? As to floods of the Missouri River I remember some of them before there were flood control dams. Do you think people on plain or even in deserts never experience great floods or particularly flash floods? True many are wildly different, but there are a good number as well that are strikingly similar. The distortion through oral tradition is obvious, but even those which are wildly different still have some similarities, and that they are all about worldwide floods, seems a little more than coincidental.
Of course it is. Many of them, such as the Hebrew myth, were borrowed directly from the epic of Gilgamesh. Many others were not similar until the people had contact with Christian missionaries and then began incorporating elements of the Hebrew myth into their own mythology. Howvever, if all the people on earth were descended from a single family which had witnessed this flood wouldn't you expect them all to be striking similar? We are only talking about a few thousand years here after all. Many of the different flood myths, such as the Greek myth are very ancient so they seem to have sprung up very shortly after the alleged worldwide flood. How is that? It makes no sense but then nothing else about the flood myth makes sense either. If all the people on earth are descended from this single family, who were saved by the God who murdered everyone else, how is it that there are hundreds of very different creation myths? Why don't all people have very similar creation myths? Many of the creation myths are very ancient so they must have sprung up right after the flood from among the direct and recent descendants of the only family that was saved. How is that? http://www.magictails.com/creationlinks.html
The frumious Bandersnatch | 
3rd May 2004, 05:08 PM
|  | Mad Preacher 26  | | Join Date: 24th August 2003 Location: Somewhere
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Reps: 118 (power: 0) | | Do you think people on plain or even in deserts never experience great floods or particularly flash floods?
many places where people live get barely any rainfall whatsoever, so Yes. Many of them, such as the Hebrew myth, were borrowed directly from the epic of Gilgamesh.
why do you think this? Many others were not similar until the people had contact with Christian missionaries and then began incorporating elements of the Hebrew myth into their own mythology. Howvever, if all the people on earth were descended from a single family which had witnessed this flood wouldn't you expect them all to be striking similar?
No. Have you ever played the telephone game? if so, then you realize how things can be distorted.... now think over thousands of years.... We are only talking about a few thousand years here after all. Many of the different flood myths, such as the Greek myth are very ancient so they seem to have sprung up very shortly after the alleged worldwide flood. How is that? It makes no sense but then nothing else about the flood myth makes sense either.
It would make sense assuming that there was a great flood. If all the people on earth are descended from this single family, who were saved by the God who murdered everyone else, how is it that there are hundreds of very different creation myths? Why don't all people have very similar creation myths?
No people were around to see these events. Many times Even God's chosen people the isrealites decided to forsake the one true God for Idols, and false Gods... why is that even a problem? Most of these probably sprang up a little while after the tower of Babel.
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